Articulating harness questions

[oldnewbie 0]

I've searched the forums, looked everywhere i could, but i cannot find any information on Articulating harnesses. What i would like to know is 1:Why do you need them (since they cost more) 2: Are they only for experienced or beginners etc. 3: What do they do that a non-articulating harness does or doesn't do etc. The reason that i am asking is that I am currently looking at a used rig (my first) and it has stainless steal and an articulating harness. Is this something that a beginner can use etc.. I have 35 jumps. The price is a good buy on a rig that is almost new, but i just don't know about the articulating harness.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Do a search for hip rings and chest rings. I only have hip rings on my rig, and it makes it a lot more comfortable to wear I think.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[jerry81 10]

It's a comfort issue. An articulated harness moves better with your body and is, based on my experience (two regular- and two articulated-harness containers tried so far) really more comfortable than a regular one. It doesn't have much to do with experience- except, of course, for the fact that you'll learn which harness suits you better as you progress. A lot of people are quite comfortable using correctly-sized cheaper non-ringed harnesses.

If the price of the gear is OK, definitely go for it. Another plus of an articulated harness is that it improves the resale value, even more so if it's stainless.

---

[riggerrob 558]

[Articulating harnesses. What i would like to know is 1:Why do you need them (since they cost more)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ringed harnesses were originally developed for freefall style competitors who have extremely felxible bodies, but found that conventional harnesses restricted their movements.
Later on ringed harnesses became afashion statement ofr recreational jumpers. The theory is that the more shiny stainless steel hardware you have on your harness, the heavier your rig is and the easier you can move around the sky???????
On a practical note, hip rings make it easier to stuff big guys in small airplanes. That is why I have hop rings on one of my harnesses and none on my other harness.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

2: Are they only for experienced or beginners etc.

No co-relation between experience and rings. For example, the Telsis 2 Student hanress has hop rings.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

3: What do they do that a non-articulating harness does or doesn't do etc.

Hip rings make it easier to stuff big guys into small airplanes.
Plua al the shiny stainless steel hardware makes you look cool.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The reason that i am asking is that I am currently looking at a used rig (my first) and it has stainless steal and an articulating harness. Is this something that a beginner can use etc.. I have 35 jumps. The price is a good buy on a rig that is almost new, but i just don't know about the articulating harness.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

1:Why do you need them (since they cost more)

You don't need rings, but they make the harness more comfortable.

Quote

2: Are they only for experienced or beginners etc.

They're for anyone.

Quote

: What do they do that a non-articulating harness does or doesn't do etc.

Articulated can refer to either hip rings or hip and chest rings. Hip rings are metal rings joining the leg straps (and on some containers also the laterals) to the main lift web. Chest rings are metal rings inserted into the main lift web; the chest strap comes off these rings.

Hip rings allow the leg straps to move seperately from the rest of the harness; makes you more comfortable on the ground, in the plane, and under canopy, and some jumpers say they notice a difference in freefall too.

Personally I don't see a real benefit to chest rings, but there doesn't seem to be a downside either; maybe someone who likes them will pipe in on that.

[rmsmith 1]

A properly fitted harness is all you really need. Adjusting the four-point junction an inch or two can yield dramatic results in comfort. However, since you are shopping in the used market, the hardware will probably help you to get a more comfortable fit from a harness that was built around someone else. From an economic position, you will probably pay more for a rig with hardware, but it will also have better resale value and faster turn-over as these "goodies" are currently in demand.

[johnny1488 1]

Chest rings let me tighten the chest strap real tight and doesnt kink the harness. Keeps the MLW flat against the body. Feels like it would help keep the handles from folding under, but maybe Im reaching now.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[sducoach 0]

Best choice? Ford and Chevys. Go try both. Just remember if I see you with one of those little bungie straps I'll snap it!

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[Motab 0]

I know it's dumb, but it's just one of those little nagging pseudo-fears I have... and I've never asked before, so I figure I should... Are the rings that make an articulating harness any more prone to breaking than a normal harness? It just seems like there would be an awful lot of stress placed on that steel... Just curious to hear what people have to say about that.

I'm not not licking toads....

[AggieDave 6]

Rob,

I've also found that articulated harnesses help translate body movements to the canopy (i.e. shifting weight left, turns left...sorry, having trouble typing my thoughts/my point tonight), more then non-articulated.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 15]

If I remember correctly the rings are rated at 5000 pounds before distortion, the webbing is only rated to 4000. If you reach 4000 pounds of force on your body I think you have bigger things to worry about then if the ring distorts... Some manufactors use the RW8 rings that are the same as the ones used in the 3 ring assembly. If your worried about them distorting or breaking then you might want to consider another release system.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Quote

. The rings are the same as the ones used in the 3 ring assembly

Not always (eg the Atom by Parachutes De Freedom)

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[masher 1]

The rings used by Mirage are different too, I think.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[riggermick 6]

Quote

If I remember correctly the rings are rated at 5000 pounds before distortion, the webbing is only rated to 4000. If you reach 4000 pounds of force on your body I think you have bigger things to worry about then if the ring distorts... Some manufactors use the RW8 rings that are the same as the ones used in the 3 ring assembly. If your worried about them distorting or breaking then you might want to consider another release system.

The 5010 ring (circular, the old base ring on early 3 ring systems) is rated at 2500 lbs as are cadmium or nickle plated RW 8's. Type 7 webbing is rated at 6000 lbs, type 8 webbing at 4000 lbs, the thread is rated at 40 lbs and a standard 3" stitch pattern is aproxamatly 5500 lbs. All of the destructive testing I have done and witnessed on harness segments caused failure at the edges of the stitch patterns not the hardware. Oh I almost forgot, the MS22040 leg strap buckles are also rated at 2500 lbs. Hope this helps

[Deleted 0]

All I have to say is...once you jump an articulated harness, you don't want to jump anything else.

[sducoach 0]

Help me here. How? The load path is the same or if anything I would believe the direct force would/could be less due to an off set angle when the leg strap moves from center. Geometry.

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[weid14 0]

Quote

Personally I don't see a real benefit to chest rings, but there doesn't seem to be a downside either; maybe someone who likes them will pipe in on that.

I have found (in 4way anyway), that the chest rings make 10-14 jumps per day, much more comfortable. (yes, all rigs custom). Especially in the door trying to get all scrunched up for exits.

I have found things to be different than Aggie with respect to canopy input though. if I leave the chest strap tight, the articulated harness (chest rings), move more and it's harder to get a response. Of course loosening the chest strap creates a straight line up the harness, and it becomes a moot point.

[AggieDave 6]

I see it more of a weight transfering more directly to the MLW instead of binding against the laterals, if it wasn't an articulated harness. Its not just geometry, its seeing things as part as a whole system.

Its also something I've experienced. I personally think that a lot of people miss out on that since they tend to buy articulated when they buy their own gear, and once they get up to a wingloading in which harness input really plays a very direct role on canopy flight, they're not going to fly a non-articulated harness again, thus not feeling the difference.

Sorry that was so "rambily" let me know if it didn't make sense.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pchapman 262]

A couple other minor issues to note:

1) Hip rings vary in their design depending on manufacturer and length of harness and container. Some rigs have the ring between the leg straps and the main lift web, while the lateral strap to the backpad of the container is a webbing junction higher up. On other rigs, the ring does also connect to that lateral strap.
Either way, the front and back part of the leg straps may or may not articulate relative to each other where they connect to the ring.
Which method is best, I can't comment on with any authority.

2) I'm guessing hip rings would be of even more benefit to someone short. On a short person's non-articulated rig, the stiff sewn junction for the leg straps starts just below the cutaway and reserve handles. For a taller person's rig, there's a few inches more webbing in between those two points, so even without rings, there's a lot more flexibility in the harness.