Newbie getting into camera- questions

[VTcnix 0]

Ok, well I just offically bought my first camera. I am excited but also reasonably nervous. I have read through as many posts as I can about the questions I have but would like to pose them just to see if I can get any other helpful tidbits..
First off, I have 250 jumps, I know everyone recommends 200 and that I just have the bare minimun... just because I bought the setup doesnt mean that I intend to jump it right away. My next 30 jumps are going to be me jumping as if I had a camera without one... practicing exits, flying relative to something, deployment, etc... It may take me many more jumps than that to feel comfortable. When I do fly with it I intend to shoot tandems, coach jumps and some 4 way here and there.
The set up I bought is a FTP with mounts on top for a HC 42 and a Cannon Rebel Still (probably wont jump that til I get video down).

So here are my questios:

1. Head position on deployment- from what I have read there is not a large consensus about this. What I read that makes sense to me is to keep my head straight,... looking at the horizon. Is there any reason not to do this?

2. RSL... A big no no??? From what I've read everyone seems to suggest against an RSL,.. So a cutaway procedure from a spinning mal (which I've had before) would be cutaway... get stable, deploy reserve... correct?... so then, do you deploy a bit higher?

3. Cutting away- same head position? or do I look down?

4. Canopy- I have a Sabre.... ouch right? From what I hear Spectre is the way to go, but when I contacted someone he said that Spectres are know to snap too... I was a packer for several years and know most of the suggestions for slowing openings.. what are ya'lls perspectives on the Spectre? I've heard the Pilot has nice openings too but that the flare is lacking.. (I jump a 150, a nice conservative wingloading for my size)

5. Video editing- any special recommendations for software? I have access to Final Cut Pro on campus and love it, but cant shell out the money for it for myself.

6. Videoing coach jumps- any reason not to once I am comfortable with the camera?

Any other helpful advise or suggestions?

I think thats it, I'll probably have alot more as time goes by. I look forward to reading this section of the forum more.
-Christie

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

Seems like you have a good plan, I like that.

The FTP is a big helmet, but also a very nice one.
Because the platform is pretty high up you want to make sure your head isn't only straight horizontally, but also vertically on opening.
Don't worry too much, you're doing your homework and once you start flying this helmet you'll do OK if you follow your plan. Go with only video untill you are happy with your performance. This coud easily take 100 jumps or more. Note that video already gives you more to think about than normal skydiving. Add stills and you're really multitasking.

A question you haven't asked but something that should be top priority is: Avoid tunnel vision!!!
You'll propably have the newton installed, but know what's happening outside your oily-cross as well. Safety first, cool shots second. This goes for your entire camera-jumping career!

For your questions:
1) this works best for me. Some guys grab their helmets, I transition to kind of a stand up position on opening to get spine - neck - head in line with the opening force. I would recommend against watching your canopy open cause some day you will get spanked. Feel the opening while looking at the horizon.
2) For all the reasons you've read against the use of RSL's I don't use them. I think all the reasons given in favour are things experience can solve. Do you feel you have enough experience not to use an RSL?
3) as long as you haven't got lines wrapped around your camera's or helmet you'll be fine, so just imagine every possible malfunction you could have and for each of them preplan what you will do.
Evidently your set-up is important as well. you can practically mount a refrigerator on your FTP, so try not to have stuff sticking out!
4) every canopy can spank you. Talk to your local instructors which canopies fit your canopy-flying skills and then make a choice for a camera-friendly one. (I jumped a friends Safire 150 a couple of times and I loved the openings, while the flying in my opinion isn't too much different from a Sabre, so maybe you want to try test-jumping that, but talk to your instructors)
5) Not going into that because i would like to hit my pillow sometime in the next couple of hours
6) depends on the type of jump. Do be aware that as a cameraflyer everyone assumes that you are not even there, so you are responsible for not hurting anyone. Make sure you're flying skills are up to that job. Follow the briefing, make a plan and let the others know about this plan.

Good luck and have fun!

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[VTcnix 0]

Thanks for the reply, I always get nervous that people are going to either simply tell me to do a search or tell me I have no clue what I'm doing I am confident to not have an RSL,.. my cutaway on jump 60 was a really highspeed spinning mal that had me helicoptering... No RSL, cutway, flipped on my belly and pulled my reserve...
I pull relatively high as it is (I'm scared of the ground )
It's just weird because I read up on RSLs in general and became a big fan,.. I'll probably keep one connected for regular jumps and disconnect for camera jumps
The setup I have looks very safe to me, one of the reasons I bought it at this stage... everything looks clean and straight up... nothing to the sides at all
As far as the coaching question, I meant having he camera on as a coach,.. do you think it'd be distracting to the student,.. or risky in genral for myself jumping it with someone so unpredictable.
As far as software, I ask because I am going to be shadowing our DZs camera man and he has this very elaborate system of running it through another camera, and then he has an editing board, a boombox no computer involved... its madness, but its what he knows, computer editing will probably be the one thing he wont be able to help me with

[The111 0]

I prefer Sony Vegas for editing, here are some examples of what you can do with it. It's very easy to learn.

And definitely keep your eyes on the horizon during opening. That way the only forces going through your neck are compression, not bending. You will hear people say to look up, down, left, right, and all around during opening; there is no compelling reason to do any of these. Keep your neck straight. A Pilot is a great canopy (I have one loaded at 1.5) for camerawork. I actually hold my chin with my hands during opening just in case for some weird reason I get whacked, my arms will prevent my neck from bending. If you attempt something like this make sure it doesn't cause you to go headlow when you pull your arms in.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[monkycndo 0]

I am like you, looking at starting to fly camera. I still haven't purchased a helmet yet. But I'll pass along some info given to me when I was looking into which type of helmet set up to get. The flat top works great for shooting outside video. But its aiming point might be a little different when coaching since you will be flying/filming inside. I was told a sidemount works better for inside video because it is capturing your true line of sight. At this point, I am leaning towards adding a box to my Mindwarp for coaching and getting a FT for everything else. Take this with a grain of salt because I have yet to strap a camera to my head.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[gearless_chris 1]

I choose sidemount video because I jump mostly at Cessna dropzones where there isn't much headroom in the back-back of the plane. If you have a top mount video for inside video, you have to plan the exit around where you are in the plane, not according to what would be best for that particular jump. I have a top mount still camera that I only use for outside video. With the still camera on I prefer student slot or jumpmaster slot since I will usually be first out, or last out when videoing hop-n-pop exits. Another consideration is your canopy ride, with a sidemount the left riser will want to be in the video most of the time.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[quade 3]

Quote

So here are my questios:

1. Head position on deployment- from what I have read there is not a large consensus about this. What I read that makes sense to me is to keep my head straight,... looking at the horizon. Is there any reason not to do this?

I've written a number of times about the subject. You can ready my thoughts about this and other "normal" procedures here; http://futurecam.com/skydive.html

Quote

2. RSL... A big no no??? From what I've read everyone seems to suggest against an RSL,.. So a cutaway procedure from a spinning mal (which I've had before) would be cutaway... get stable, deploy reserve... correct?... so then, do you deploy a bit higher?

Never be overly concerned about getting stable after a cutaway. While it may make your neck feel better if you do, it does you no good if you've completely run out of altitude and impact during line stretch. The reason to avoid the RSL is to avoid it getting snagged on your helmet as it goes by. All of this said, I've never had a cutaway and can't really speak from actual experience on the subject, but my plan is to move my head in such a way that the departing risers do not get snagged, then as soon I know I'm clear of them and pretty sure my reserve isn't going to deploy into my camera helmet, immediate deploy the reserve.

Quote

3. Cutting away- same head position? or do I look down?

I can only tell you my plan, which is to try to avoid the risers as they depart. Depending on the malfunction, this may not be possible. I'd certianly be prepared to jettison the helmet at any point and I'd want to ensure that when it does depart, it completely leaves my head and body. No cables or other fixtures that won't easily disconnect simply from the pull of gravity.

Quote

4. Canopy- I have a Sabre.... ouch right? From what I hear Spectre is the way to go, but when I contacted someone he said that Spectres are know to snap too... I was a packer for several years and know most of the suggestions for slowing openings.. what are ya'lls perspectives on the Spectre? I've heard the Pilot has nice openings too but that the flare is lacking.. (I jump a 150, a nice conservative wingloading for my size)

ANY canopy can have a bad opening. That said, if you look at what the top people are jumping when they KNOW it's going to be rough and have a heavy load on their heads, I think you'll find a lot of people jumping Spectres. From my own experience, there is simply nothing finer or more reliable. I love my Spectres and over the years they've treated me exceptionally well. Over 2800 jumps, no cutaways, no trips to the hospital. Your milage may vary, but at this point I'm certainly not going to change.

Quote

5. Video editing- any special recommendations for software? I have access to Final Cut Pro on campus and love it, but cant shell out the money for it for myself.

Have you looked into Final Cut Express?

Quote

6. Videoing coach jumps- any reason not to once I am comfortable with the camera?

Well, I'd check with the coach and student first.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sinjin 0]

hey i just went thru everything you did two months ago,, i had a sabre and was and still am a newbie. i got rid of it when i started jumping camera as i got snapped, the video going white out from a hard opening. yes the spectre might but the sabre will in my opinion.i sold the sabre and got a 150 spectre. i would jump empty box,, then video,, then video and still.. i had one tandem instructor take me under his wing for about 50 tandems that i paid for myself.. that helped me get the timing and practice without pressure of blowing the video.. the other thing with tandems is make sure you are safe for a while and always err on the safe side.. leave extra early on exits.. approach slow and stay outside till you get real comfortable. as far as deployment, either is ok and getting your head thru the risers the first few times is weird.. i shoot an hc-42 for tandems and everything and it is great. i used a cheap lens and now a .45 cookie. rsl is your choice but i dont for the extra couple of seconds in case of a snag.. i would recommend a hook knife as well. add your helmet cutaway to your emergency procedures. i did 75 jumps with no ring sight,, now i have a ring sight and it improved my video substantially.. it is another snag point and you may want to speak to you local vidiots for a timeframe. take all this from a newbie with a hundred camera jumps. listen to the elders as they have the mojo. got my first pic in parachutist last month so if i can anyone can. enjoy and good luck.

dont let life pass you by

[VTcnix 0]

cool! Thanks alot that was very helpful,.... I definately want to jump with tandems alot before I put a camera on.... from what I know STAY CLEAR OF THE DROGUE!
Yeah I think I'm definately going to move on from my Sabre,.. from what I've heard you arent supposed to have bruises on your thighs every weekend I'm going to DEMO a spectre this weekend,.. it seems to be the canopy most camera flyers are jumping... everyone cant be wrong eh?

[bigdad510 1]

Here's my two cents.

I started jumping a camera at 100 jumps. Very early I know. My goal is to eventually shoot tandem, and I give it a shot every now and then (more then than now, I'm deployed). I probably made a couple of jumps in the camera position on rw jumps. Just trying to learn my position in the sky and what to do from exit till my feet touched the ground. Then I actually jumped the camera, no still. Flying with a camera does add more things to think about. Like above, I didn’t jump a ring site, and still don’t. I’m not comfortable with the extra snag point. I use a dot on my goggles, it’s arguably not the best option, but I say stick with what works for you.

I only recently added stills, and I think adding the stills adds more pressure that trying to get the video. But I love still photography so I try harder with that aspect. I’ve only attempted shooting a handful of tandems. With all the disciplines you want to shoot, I recommend shooting some 2-way, 4-way and even a couple of BFR’s before trying tandem. Also, don’t know how well your flying is, approach it from different angle before shooting tandem
An example is, imagine leaving late on a big tandem and having to catch up. Practice that by leaving late from the plane. It’s a whole new world being late, catching up, and still trying to keep “the shot”. You’ve probably read a lot about being able to fly before shooting. To me, it’s not about being able to fly RW, it’s being able to fly different aspects for different situations. I highly recommend being able to fly in a sit for when the situation calls for it. I think I fly very well, but I’m learning to sit-fly to compensate for my light ass, and the very heavy tandems.

Body position and canopy is all preference. Everyone’s body and capabilities are different. Me head is at the horizon, and that works for me, all my stuff is top mounted. My canopy is considered “very aggressive” for camera flying, but I’m extremely comfortable with it, it opens very soft, yet very. I fly a 135 Heatwave. Most camera flyers wouldn’t touch it for that kind of work. But I don’t want to change what I’m comfortable with and it works for me.

Good luck and Blue Skies. Be careful and go slow, I should have went slower.

Brad

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

Quote

As far as the coaching question, I meant having he camera on as a coach,.. do you think it'd be distracting to the student,.. or risky in genral for myself jumping it with someone so unpredictable.

The FTP is a helmet for doing video-jumps.
A coaching jump is not a video jump.
For this purpose you want to have another helmet with a sidemount and a .3 lens or something similar.

You don't want to have that giant on your head, you don't want a ringsight in front of your eyes, you want to be concentrating on the student and have a cam onboard to document the jump.

The comment on the position and angle of your camera on the FTP makes a lot of sense, you would have to be semi-looking down all the time, not a position you want to be in.

As you don't want to get into the mixing of these 2 disciplines right away and it will take you a while to get the video-flying thing sorted out, you might as well look out for a good helmet for these types of jumps.

For these types of jumps I have a sidemount helmet myself.

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[VTcnix 0]

That makes alot of sense

[AFFI 0]

Quote

As far as the coaching question, I meant having he camera on as a coach,.. do you think it'd be distracting to the student,.. or risky in genral for myself jumping it with someone so unpredictable.

At the DZ I work at - all instructional jumps has the Instructor wearing video.

A simple guideline jumping with students is to have a stripped down helmet with no accessories that do not need to be there for that type of jump.

Another words, a Sight Ring could get snagged on someone’s gear or body on any close contact situations. Say a full combat jump with a student or a funneling exit with a coachee.
The helmet I use for training jumps has only one accessory besides the helmet and that is the D-Box for the camcorder. I do not even use an indicator light (Cam Eye) on my instructional helmet because I do not want any distractions what so ever. I turn the camcorder on manually when I dawn the helmet just before exit then do not worry about it during freefall.

That is just me though, because I want to reduce additional potential hazards and feel the need to remain completely focused on the student I am working with.



I agree with AP:

Quote

As you don't want to get into the mixing of these 2 disciplines right away and it will take you a while to get the video-flying thing sorted out, you might as well look out for a good helmet for these types of jumps.

Take your time, you have a whole lifetime of jumping ahead of you...
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[DSE 3]

Quote

Ok5. Video editing- any special recommendations for software? I have access to Final Cut Pro on campus and love it, but cant shell out the money for it for myself.

6-Christie

Even though it's not skydiving related, you might find this video project interesting. Dailies were done on the cheap consumer version of Sony Vegas, and roughcuts done on same. Final version was finished in professional version of Vegas using a couple plugins, but overall, it was completed in 3 days after 2 days shooting.
the cool part about it is, the guy that edited it is a musician, not a video editor. He just figured it out fast. If a musician can, anyone can

[RossDagley 0]

Thats a seriously nice edit - especially if the editor had no previous editing experience I'm very envious!

[Zee 0]

Impressive.That's some nice work right there....

Action©Sports

[damonsteele 0]

As far as head position on opening, do what feels comfortable. Don't mind f*ck every little detail. Video is a fun thing to do. As far as not shooting stills for now, that's your choice. But I don't think it makes a difference whether you do or not. The video gets turned on and you point your head in the right direction. And oh yeah, your still is pointing in the same direction! Take couple of shots, get used to firing off a couple on exit.

Emergency procedures -
Rule #1 - GET SOMETHING ABOVE YOUR HEAD. If you start thinking about "is my head in the right position", you're wasting time!

What canopy should I jump?
What canopy do YOU like? I jump a Velocity. Most of the time it opens nice, sometimes it slaps me around a bit. Those are the best odds your going to get on ANY canopy. But the Spectre is a nice canopy.

As for WHO to video?
Start with RW groups. No pressure, (probably no pay). Jumping with instructors (and students) when you're just starting out makes most instructors a little nervous. RW groups are more than happy to see how great they are, no matter who's filming.

Other suggestions:
Have fun, be safe.
And oh yeah, don't get too steep on the RW groups, they hate when you crash the party!

[Zee 0]

I try to keep my neck aligned with my spine on deployment so I look straight down at the ground. If you've gotten in to the habit of looking at your pilot chute when you pitch, you'll break that one really quick once you have your first hard opening in that position. At least that's all it took for me

Action©Sports

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Even though it's not skydiving related, you might find this video project interesting. Dailies were done on the cheap consumer version of Sony Vegas, and roughcuts done on same. Final version was finished in professional version of Vegas using a couple plugins, but overall, it was completed in 3 days after 2 days shooting.
the cool part about it is, the guy that edited it is a musician, not a video editor. He just figured it out fast. If a musician can, anyone can

Musicians already have the timing, I have always believed that a foundatiion of good editing and animation is a good sense timing. Still, very nice work for a low timer. Very nice...
Send my compliments!

Makes me want to check out Vegas...
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Laszloimage 0]

I agree what you said about the RSL. Also you have to become a "dirty high puller". While you shooting the video you have to be altitude aware. It will happen the Tandem will “smoke it down” or the AFF gets into a trouble at pull time and get low. In situations like those you have to realize what’s going on, get away and deploy high. Personally my bottom end is 4,000feet. It happened a few times I was open higher than the tandem I was filming. “I getting paid until 4 grand” I always say… So you have to calculate it every jump to be able to pull no lower than your hard deck. For example my TimeOut is set to 5,500feet when I film tandem, if no pull was initiated by 5,000 (3sec later) I start tracking away and get my pilot chute out by 4,000. There’s no such rule I or any other camera person have to video the TM deployment! That’s only a cool option.
The other safety features are AAD, hook knife, good free fly friendly rig, common sense (hard to explain...), knowing your own limitations, and taking constructive criticism from others.
Editing… I see lot of the guys talking about computer editing their TM/AFF videos on a computer. The only problem with that is the time. Some busy DZ’s you have to come up with the product within 20 minutes (personally I even pack for my self too). Other places mailing out their videos a few days later when definitely there’s a time for computer editing. You mentioned you’re in school and they have Final Cut Pro but you don’t have a money to buy your own. Actually as a student you should be able to buy an “academic version” for the small fraction of the retail price (I did it with AVID stuff). …just make sure you don’t start to use it for major production, so you won’t bump into legal issues.
Or get a different, cheaper, but still very powerful software. DSE is the real man to take advise from this field anyway.
-Laszlo-