On your back for tandem openings??

[docjohn 0]

That is one kick ass photo. Good job

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[Jskydiver22 0]

Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem???

I prefer to go on my bad when im filming any kind of deployments but thats just me.

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[sdctlc 0]

I do both Tandems and shoot Video. When I am shooting video I usually prefer to pop up at the wave off looking down at the tandem then as the trap door takes effect. I then shoot the canopy opening right in front of me then as it catches I fall past the tandem pair, in frame, and roll on my back and give the "peace" sign, again in frame but usually under the tandem in the shot....the visual looks great. I have never been in a position that if the Tandem had a problem I would have been close. I usually fall for a good 5-6 sec before I turn back over and the result is tons of separation..... When I turn over I move to the side in case there is an issue. when out of the 182 I am usually spotting so I am not worried about the exit or opening. On bigger planes I take a quick look during the fall to see where we are and kinda "talk" to the TM if we are WAY OFF.... I am sure that others do the same... Anyway, I like the roll on the back shot for the opening......

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[skysurfcam 0]

No trapdoor at all on the Strong

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[IvanPeters 0]

Quote

Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem???

He was not saying that is is important to do a half loop. He was suggesting that if you don't have the general flying skills to be able to do a half loop then maybe you don't have the general flying skills to be near a tandem.

I don't have an opinion on this as I don't remember ever trying to do a half loop in a camera suit and I don't film tandems anyway. But I'm going to give it a go at the earliest opportunity and then I'll decide if I agree or disagree.

Ivan

[davelepka 4]

Quote

If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer

No, but it makes them a bad photographer. Ignoring all the shots/angles made possible by flying on your back, you severly limit your pallet.

If you want to shoot the same video sequence on every jump, eventually you would be good AT THAT. If you want to react to the situation presented to you (lighting, clouds, passenger, etc) and shoot the best video for that individual jump, you need to have and use a full compliment of skills.

Hey look, Norm Kent and Gus Wing seem to prefer sit/back flying. Nuff' said.

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Quote

Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem???

I prefer to go on my bad when im filming any kind of deployments but thats just me.

What Ivan said is corrrect. I meant that you don't have the skill to do that(as the original post said) than you don't have the skill to be in the air with a tandem. IMO

[CTSkydiver 0]

Quote

some days going on your back to film the tandem opening means you won't make it back to the lz.
jimoke

Wow Jim, you don't say?
Coupled with a mal and chop, you're awfully right. I Think Dave G. posted the vid.

[DJL 232]

I back track because I believe it to be the best way to gain separation, ensure an open tandem canopy, and provide a very good piece of video for the end of freefall. By the time the tandem is fully open I've already gained enough ground to just roll, dearch, and deploy.

Where I am during tandem deployment dictates how I fly into the back track, whether it's rolling or flipping. I'm usually on the main deployment side and as they pull I roll my outside shoulder under and carve in front of them and then continue with the back track.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[crazydiver 0]

Because of the trap door effect, I do a pseudo-sit position to gain speed and stay with the pair as they are in the trap door then transition to my back to film the rest of the opening. My pseudo sit position is kind of like a hindu/budda type thing. The bottoms of my feet are flat together and my knees out to the side...this is a medium speed position for me. It is cool though too to sometimes stay at your same fall rate to show the tandem pair rapidly decelerating in front of you and to see the passenger's face.

Cheers,
Travis

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

I used to slide back about 15 feet, do the half-a-backloop thing, with kind of a sitfly position on acceleration going on the back as the tandem slows down, but now due to jumping together with the same TM all the time i just accelerate on my belly, because I can stay closer to the TD, and the TM makes all kinds of funny signs at the camera.

Teaming up is great, I'm learning a lot more when I don't have to adapt to different exits and routines...

Do note that I said closer, not close, I wouldn't want a nike-logo on my forehead!

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I start sitting up as soon as I get the waveoff and then rotate my feet the rest of the way under (until I am on my back) as the droge releases and the tandem pair is pulled up, up, and away. I will sometimes spin in a circle on my back during the tandem opening sequence.

Chuck

[Kuper 0]

man - you'r really close there... aren't you?
i'm an editor at my dz and working now on my own tandem shooting skills, and i've never seen anyone goes THAT close while opening... it looks very scary. i watched it twice and still in a little shock

how far are you from them (on the 1st and 2nd openings)? and with what lens?

oh - and for the 3rd open - what a pitty...

Ori.

http://www.orikuper.printroom.com

[Zoter 0]

Quote

We jump Sigmas, so no trap door.

Can you explain this to me please..?

[DaGimp 0]

Quote

Quote

We jump Sigmas, so no trap door.

Can you explain this to me please..?

the old vectors and strongs have what is called a trap door affect.....when they pull the ripcord the tandem pair drop significantly really fast......with the sigmas the trap door effect is greatly less.....which means i can do a barrel roll basically an arms legnth away under the tandem pair and not have any worries about getting hit.....maybe a kick if i am that close though.

"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas

[linestretch 0]

Quote

how far are you from them (on the 1st and 2nd openings)? and with what lens?

I'm about 6-8 feet away, the lens is a .5


and as for the trap door, it's because of the drogue collapsing when the release is pulled. You start to speed up cuz of no more drogue...it's the collapsed drogue that's pulling the bag off your back. The strong doesn't drop as much cuz the drogue stays inflated until the canopy is outa the bag.

my pics & stuff!

[skysurfcam 0]

Quote

the old vectors and strongs have what is called a trap door affect.....when they pull the ripcord the tandem pair drop significantly really fast......with the sigmas the trap door effect is greatly less.....which means i can do a barrel roll basically an arms length away under the tandem pair and not have any worries about getting hit.....maybe a kick if i am that close though.

Actually, Strongs have no trapdoor, Vectors and their deriviatives (eclipse atom etc) have a very pronounced once, Sigma's have a reduced trapdoor, but they all can bite you.

The trapdoor effect is related to the opening sequence of the tandem gear. On a vector(etc) when the drogue release is pulled, first thing that happens is the the drogue collapses, and the tandem pair speeds up. Drag over the collapsed drogue then extracts the main bag and deploys the canopy. By collapsing the drogue first, the snach force on the bag and main is reduced, but the trade off is that any malfunction can see an extended trapdoor effect, and a tandem terminal mal. Not something you want to be involved in, or below!

Strongs have no trapdoor, as they do not collapse the drogue until after the main is out of the bag (much like a concentional PC kill line). The tradeoff is a much higher snatch force on the bag & main, which can lead to a higher risk of incident, abeit at a lower speed. The ALS bag was mandated a few years ago by Strong, and has resolved most of the issues caused by the increased snatch force.

Sigmas have a variation on the collapsing drogue system. To quote their sales pitch "When either ripcord is pulled, the closing loop slips through a series of "D" rings, allowing the container to open and release the drogue disc. The drogue then partially collapses to the size of a normal pilot chute, and deploys the main canopy." As a result they do still have a trapdoor effect, and any malfunction or hesitation at this point can quickly result in a tandem terminal situation.

Being in the path of a tandem pair at any time involves a number of risks. You can never be certain of what will happen, Students may pull ripcords at any height, drouges can fail during droguefall, lines can lock on bags, drogue attachment can fail under the load of opening.

My personal closest miss was filming a vector type. TM waved off, I went backwards, up, and onto my knees to get the vert and rollback shot as they went by. The drouge collapsed, and the bag came out to the first stow, then locked there for 3 seconds or so. In that time they accelerated and dropped to around 200' below me. While I was rapidly sliding down and backwards (and swearing a lot) the lines released and the canopy deployed fast and hard with a vicious right hand spiral. Canopy and tandem pair went by a second later, about 5 feet away and going about 100mph slower than me. It opened my eyes Had I been under them in that sceranio, I would probably have been along for the ride...

Going under, beside, in front of, or anywhere near a deploying tandem pair involves a varying degree of risk, but it always involves risk, both to you, and the tandem pair, regardless of the equipment being used. Anyone videoing a tandem is mitigating that risk if they have a TM show them through exactly how the tandem gears works, especially on deployment. We all accept that jumpings risky, make sure you know the extra risks a set of tandem gear adds. Even if the TM is happy for you to be there on opening, make sure you both know what's going to happen when a "what if" comes up.

Stay safe, have fun,

Craig

(Must be my day for being serious...)

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[Kuper 0]

Quote

Going under, beside, in front of, or anywhere near a deploying tandem pair involves a varying degree of risk, but it always involves risk, both to you, and the tandem pair

i don't know what's it's name abroad (what is it?), but our old good master rigger calls it 'the Silence Cone' - and refer to the 2 imaginary cones above and under the tandem pair. we sometimes make a laugh about that phrase, but he's very right though. and you skysurfcam right about it too.

i think that the risk beeing there for filming a customer's opening - just not worth it.
it makes change just for us the jumpers, and we always have to remember that no matter how filming a tandem can be boreing, it have to be good and safe for our customer, and we shouldn't make our work jumps into fun jumps...

(though i loved to shots and films here)

http://www.orikuper.printroom.com