CrazyIvan 0 #1 April 6, 2003 Any advantages?, are they recommended for 'first rig'?__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 April 6, 2003 Think quiet. I think it's probably difficult to find a slider that isn't collapsable these days. I can't see any reason that you shouldn't get one. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkpbxman 0 #3 April 6, 2003 Not only are they much less noisy and annoying, the constant buffeting of a full sail slider wears on the lines.I have a "kill line" set-up on mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billdo 0 #4 April 6, 2003 Obviously it's nice to have it quiet. The real advantage is to be able to collapse it AND bring it down behind your head (to do this you probably need soft links). A collapsed slider greatly reduces air resistance, and widens the lines so that the canopy flies better. Kill line pilot chutes help do the same things essentially. However, collapsing a slider and bringing it down add some steps to the "opening process" and one needs to learn to do these safely while remaining aware of canopy traffic around them. If you are a beginner, you can always just leave the slider uncollapsed. Pretty much any new canopy today will come with a collapsible. If you don't have a new canopy, I don't know if I'd bother having one added. Just wait til you're at the point where the benfits of having one would actually benefit your flying. A collapsible slider, like a kill line pilot chute adds some steps to the packing process also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #5 April 6, 2003 its just quieter, and one of my instructors once told me it makes the canopy fly a little better. If you do have one, make sure you "unkill" it (make it normal size) again before you start daisy chaining... otherwise the kill lines sometimes get in your daisy chain and you have to redo it. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #6 April 6, 2003 and widens the lines so that the canopy flies better.Not true, this is done by collapsing the slider and loosening the chest strap..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #7 April 6, 2003 And pulling it down to the rings ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveom 0 #8 April 6, 2003 QuoteObviously it's nice to have it quiet. The real advantage is to be able to collapse it AND bring it down behind your head (to do this you probably need soft links). Beware the view looking 'over your shoulder' may be affected... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #9 April 6, 2003 I believe that everyone should have a collapsible slider. The major reason is the prevent wear on the lines from all that flapping around. With beginners, performance isnt going to be affected that much by not having one, nor would the average beginner notice the difference because the canopies are typically so big. When you have a 200+ sq ft. canopy over your head, the difference is minor. For instance a couple MAJOR container manufacturers recommend not bothering getting a collapsible P/C for 190 sq ft. and up. There isnt a reason for it. Performance isnt affected. So my answer or recommendation is "get a collapsible slider" to maintain your gear better. That goes for anyone, as far as getting softlinks,loosening your chestrap, pulling it down behind your head and attatching it to some sort of bungee or velcro system...that will come in time and w/ smaller canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 April 6, 2003 QuoteFor instance a couple MAJOR container manufacturers recommend not bothering getting a collapsible P/C for 190 sq ft. but several LARGE CANOPY manufacturers DO recomend getting a collapsible P/C regardless of size. this includes both PD, Icarus, Precision, and Atair.......I think I'll take the canopy guys opinion over container folk's any day. I know Sunrise recommends one for everyone... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #11 April 6, 2003 Yeah, I agree with you there on that one. I do find it strange that there are conflicting opinions. I guess it comes down to each manufactures point of view. If the canopy company can get you to get every last bit of performance out of their canopy...they will recommend it. If a container manufacturer can save you a few bucks to make their rig cheaper, especially if its a first time buyer (big rigs) they will. I was always under the impression that if you have a collapsible PC and slider that it can increase your forward speed 6 mph. Which is nice...but logic does say that bigger canopies should be less affected by more drag than a smaller one...doesnt it??? I may have to do a search, if I get motivated enough. There has to be some sort of article that has stats on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #12 April 6, 2003 Talk to Scott Miller or Bushman about it. they both will tell you that it will improve the canopy regardless of size. we do have collapsable drogues dont we for Tandems????? imagine that airplow not being deflated...although this isn't a fair comparison.... I'll find some stuff on it...I know I've seen it. both on Icarus, PD's and Precision's site's... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #13 April 6, 2003 Talk to Procos and the guys over RWS or Jumpshack. They have a different story. Dont really know, but its a good question. When I was selling rigs for Deland, the manufacturers said anything 190 and over, dont bother. Strange. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #14 April 6, 2003 The size of my first main would be 160 (or 170) to keep a wing load of 1:1 (I weight 140 Lb), I'm a beginner, I'm just gathering opinions.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #15 April 6, 2003 Well, get a collapsible slider...its quieter, speeds up the canopy a bit, and saves on the wear & tear on your lines. Most canopies nowadays have them. The only ones that I can think of that dont have them are student canopies. I would just be aware of your opening procedures and keep in mind traffic when you are stowing the slider. I had 2 good friends of mine that were relatively experienced (200+ jumps) and current that almost killed each other this winter in Lake Wales because one of the guys was stowing his slider and ran into a guy that was trying to clear a lineover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #16 April 6, 2003 QuoteBeware the view looking 'over your shoulder' may be affected... Dave I had a problem with that. Just started twisting it up after its collapsed and it stayes behind my back. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #17 April 6, 2003 QuoteTalk to Procos and the guys over RWS or Jumpshack. They have a different story. Dont really know, but its a good question. When I was selling rigs for Deland, the manufacturers said anything 190 and over, dont bother. Strange. You cant go just by size you have to factor in wing loading and the non-collapse pc size. If a big fat bastard just off student status is on a 190 but @ a higher wing load than a 1:1 he may very well need the killable PC. Or in a case like my first container being an old wonderhog with a noncollapsable 36" pc making my spectre flare like a worn out lightning. At first I went with everybodys info that at my loading it wasn't needed, everyone wanted to save me my money. But my landings were at best 50% and ugly. After just getting a properly sized collapsable PC, I expected at best a slight improvement. The change was dramatic and not just in my head wishful thinking I was damn near swoopin. I was rewarded with plenty of flare plus, First one with the new PC sent me back up. Something the old PC never allowed. landings were just peachie. Not bad for a 100 bucks, well worth it. Less drag is less drag, will it be noticed at a give wing size? Dunnow. Noticed at above average wing loads or when other factors are far from what is typical of modern gear? You bet! Glen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 58 #18 April 7, 2003 QuoteQuoteObviously it's nice to have it quiet. The real advantage is to be able to collapse it AND bring it down behind your head (to do this you probably need soft links). Beware the view looking 'over your shoulder' may be affected... Dave Cut away main can hung up on your helmet, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlkilpatrick 0 #19 April 7, 2003 I agree completely on wing loading being the operative factor. I jump a 210 Hornet at 1.2:1 The difference was dramatic, just as you describe, when I went to a collapsible PC. I've observed a distinct, though not really dramatic, difference in flight characteristics when collapsing and pulling down the slider, as well. I'd guess the collapsible PC added at least 30% more flare, and that's a conservative estimate. Blues! Luke Don't just eat a hamburger, eat the HELL out of it! -Ivan Stang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #20 April 7, 2003 Yep, I totally agree...The only time I have jumped with a nonkill line pc was when I was a student. It always struck me as odd that rig makers suggested otherwise, but I personally go with what PD tells me on this issue, but I would imagine that if you are jumping a monster canopy with a low wing loading...it really wouldnt make that much of a difference. I think that the difference would be relative to the wingloading. Higher wingloading, bigger difference...etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #21 April 7, 2003 QuoteThe size of my first main would be 160 (or 170) I haven't ever seen a 160 - just 170 and 150. I looked on-line and see a few different manufacturers that offer 160 - triathalon, lightening, springo. But it might be hard to find a 160. Agree with others - collapsible slider is better for the lines, etc. I have a collapsible on my triathalon 190, and it doesn't make a noticeable difference in performance, but it's much quieter when collapsed. I also have a much nicer one on my Lotus 150 and it seems like I can feel a difference in performance, but that may just be a perception - I don't have any real way to measure it. I assume on a tiny canopy, it will make a noticeable difference in performance.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #22 April 8, 2003 Quote I haven't ever seen a 160 - just 170 and 150. Yup, you're right, 150 it will be then. __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #23 April 8, 2003 When wing loading exceeds 1:1 get collapsible pilotchute and slider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #24 April 11, 2003 <> The drogue collapses before the opening, when releasing it. Otherwise the pull force will be to high and it will give you a very very hard opening (and will probably damage your tandem canopy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #25 April 11, 2003 Quote<> The drogue collapses before the opening, when releasing it. Otherwise the pull force will be to high and it will give you a very very hard opening (and will probably damage your tandem canopy) Umm i've been told by my CI who's also a rigger that the drougue only collapses after the canopy is out of the bag unlike a sport rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
