500 way website now up....

[rhys 0]

http://www.dubai500.com/

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[darkwing 4]

How quaint. It uses flash, so I can't see it.

They don't want me anyway.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mdrejhon 8]

You just have to apply, apply, and show up to a few big ways, and you get higher on the list. I've applied to the 200-way-plus league events but haven't been accepted yet, but I'm easily accepted on 100-ways now, as well as Kaleidoscope 2009 / Men's World Record / upcoming Canada Record. Assuming I make a good run to keep large big way currency in the next two years, a person like me probably has a good chance of getting to a 500-way, but may have difficulty squeezing onto a 250-way. I'll keep trying though!

[mirage62 0]

The poster above is correct, but it's not so much if you can do it...or if they "want you" it's more of can you dedicate the time and money into being in front of them enough.

Truth is it use to be that after X number of big ways - it use to be 100 hundred plus size skydives- you had a pretty good chance.

The camp system has changed that for the better and for the worst.

Someone that goes to a ton of camps ($$) has a better chance than someone that has done 100's of big ways BUT has done no camps in a while PROVIDED that they both are of equal skills or close.

In order for the camp system to work the people that go to multiple camps HAVE to be rewarded...if they aren't the camp system doesn't "pay"

A lot of the above is dependent on where you jump also.

The camp system has been great for increasing the overall amount of people that have the skill set to do good big ways.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[headoverheels 291]

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How quaint. It uses flash, so I can't see it.

Uses rather small print, if viewed on a high resolution monitor, and ctrl+ doesn't change the size.

[pilot-one 0]

500 Way!?.....are ya'll fucking nuts or what?

[VTmotoMike08 0]

So I know nothing about the 500 way project, I heard there was some drama between the two big way groups but I personally don't care. Will there be a boogie or anything going on at the same time as the record for up jumpers? It would be awesome to go to Dubai and jump!

[michalm21 0]

I'm assuming 500 way will take place on the Dubai's 2nd DZ out in the desert, about 30-40 mins away from Jumeirah (The Palm) as it has mile and miles of flattened desert. I mean it has to be, their DZ is too small to even fit 500 people landing, unless they land vertically on top of each other man I miss that place

[yjumpinoz 0]

I hear you. I have over a hundred 100-ways and feel I am on the outside looking in. I think the problem with unleashing all the "campers" in is that a good chunk of them haven't been on high pressure chance of getting cut dives. No fault camps can't teach performing under stress with a bench. My opinion only.

[mchamp 1]

Better have plenty of 5D mark II cameras or nikon D3x's or D3s coupled with the latest and greatest HD camcorders!

I'm sure those RED cameras would suffice

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[rhys 0]

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It would be awesome to go to Dubai and jump!

There is a nice DZ there with a Porter and the terrific scenery.

I highly recommend going there if you ever get a chance...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[cpoxon 0]

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I hear you. I have over a hundred 100-ways and feel I am on the outside looking in. I think the problem with unleashing all the "campers" in is that a good chunk of them haven't been on high pressure chance of getting cut dives. No fault camps can't teach performing under stress with a bench. My opinion only.

There have been and will continue to be events in the run up to the 253 and 500 ways that campers get on such as JFTC, CSR, TSR, 200-way that have significant benches where people can and do get cut.

These events are qualifiers for the 500-way and I would expect that the organisers wouldn't put people on it who haven't proven themselves under stress.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[mirage62 0]

FWIW I almost didn't get a slot on the 400 way, the only "offical" reason I was given was that there was concern that I wouldn't be able handle the stress of a world record.

Some how it was decided that I wouldn't cave under the terrible preassure of a world record and I got a slot

Bill is correct that there will be events to be looked at. My advise is ONLY go to THESE events. Events that are not put on by organizing group carry almost no weight. (Rightly so)

It ought to be a killer event

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Sangi 0]

2013?

That's AGES from now

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[rhys 0]

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2013?

That's AGES from now

Not if you are wanting to participate and have not doen many bigways lately, or

If you are organising it, or

If you need to allocate the use of a number of C130's or similar for civilian use and need to make the necessary arrangments...

It is only a couple of years away...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Sangi 0]

Good point, guess time flies foe those involved..

Not so much for the rest of us

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[diablopilot 2]

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I'll keep trying though!

[reality translator]Throw more money at them[/reality translator]

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mdrejhon 8]

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I hear you. I have over a hundred 100-ways and feel I am on the outside looking in. I think the problem with unleashing all the "campers" in is that a good chunk of them haven't been on high pressure chance of getting cut dives. No fault camps can't teach performing under stress with a bench. My opinion only.

I enjoy big way events in both major big way groups (BJ and P3) and based on my experience, both could probably pull off the 500 way. I will attend either one that I am invited to.

I have been to ten P3 organized/hosted events now (three in '08, four in '09 including MWR, three in '10). The P3 team has been gaining experience necessary for a 500-way, as they:
- Successfully accomplished the 181-way JFTC
- Successfully accomplished the 200-way event (three completions, plus one near complete 2-pointer!)

They used a bench team (the "K plane" team in the JFTC) which is kept hot and ready to jump. There is starting to now be a history of healthy time margins on serious NON-CAMP P3 events, too. They also succesfully integrated bench teams for expanded records, such as the Australia 112-way record well beyond the original Australia 100-way target.

There are a number of longtime big way veterans -- including a few 400-way recordholders -- that make almost EVERY P3 100-way camp, because they enjoy these camps and want to stay current in big ways. They are not just "campers"... They are patient enough to sit through the class, to keep learning more techniques. There's always something new every year -- P3 has refined a few new big way training techniques that did not exist in 2006.

The 252-way in Dubai 2012 is not much larger than the succesful 200-way the P3 team did, and there is plenty of time.

It is wholly possible I might not even make the 500-way since I scaled my skydiving back by about 25% due to my Toronto move, but I have proven a reliable 100-way jumper (including 2-point 100-ways) that can take the pressure now. It's the big step up that I need to prove, but not everyone in the last 400-way actually had prior 200-way experience, and it is possible I may have to make the large leap up from the 100-175 way range. Fortunately I track better than average now (BJ can vouch for that too, he was in the same tracking team in MWR) However, I would rather have at least one 200-way league formation between now and 2013.

I really don't think there's a problem with the P3 approach of using camps to incubate more big way jumpers that eventually qualifies for the record, as proven by the 181-way and 200-ways organized by P3, which used a higher pressure bench system, than the no-fault camp system. They have successfully gained experience in that territory already. There's a lot of 1000+ jumpers at P3 events too, including seeing members of a country's champion 4-way team showing up a P3 event to do their first big ways. They also tracked like rockets as I had opportunity to see. It does not take too many camps/events to turn them into great 500-way record holders.

I was, of course, rejected from the first Perris 100-way in May 2008 when I asked if I could apply after my first 49-way. I applied again 6 months later and got accepted, and successfully got my first 100-way. Try again, don't give up, and you gain more points with the organizers.

[rhys 0]

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[reality translator]Throw more money at them[/reality translator]

Good things don't often come free, as much as your statement is true, you have to admit that it is paramount that the ability and currency of all participants is recognised before such an event can be successful, one bad egg can ruin it for 499+ others.

im sure the organisers have seen their fair share of failures and i'm sure it is not that easy to choose each person.

there are always two sides to the coin.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mdrejhon 8]

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Good things don't often come free, as much as your statement is true, you have to admit that it is paramount that the ability of all participants is recognised before such an event can take place, one bad egg can ruin it for 499+ others.

True, though as evidenced by the successful 181-way and the three consecutive successful complete 200-ways, the P3 team have already proven successful in quick calculated reassignments with the bench team. With a healthy safety margin of time, they even did the first 200-way on the day before the last day of the "SQUARE ONE 200-way" event. In my opinion, I think they're perfectly capable of doing a 500-way now with their current planned progression. Even if they don't invite me.

Let's not forget this. Many frequent P3-campers who have been to four 100-way event with extremely high big-way currency, already outperform many of the 400-way World Record team members who have not been staying big way current lately. These P3 campers have a jump average of way more than 1000 jumps each. Are these beginner 250-jump wonders who are starting out P3 camp, like I was at my first P3 camp? No. There's a lot of 1000+ jumpers at P3 events too.

Yet, even after 10 P3 events, I have lots more to learn. I also play on Guy Wright, BJ, and other groups too, don't close the door on anyone either.

[Ron 7]

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Let's not forget this. Many frequent P3-campers who have been to four 100-way event with extremely high big-way currency, already outperform many of the 400-way World Record team members who have not been staying big way current lately.

Data to back that claim?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mirage62 0]

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already outperform many of the 400-way World Record team members who have not been staying big way current lately.

It's part of the camp system....you can't be "big way current" UNLESS you come to a camp. You can't know that your aren't big way current unless someone that goes to the camps makes the above statement

Truth is that some of the WT 400 way people may not be current or as good as some P3 campers. It's also true that some of the people that go to 15 camps will never be as good as some other people.

And just to be clear.

I've enjoyed reading Mdrejhon post about his path to record size big ways, he's working to a goal and his excitment shows. Comments like the above are part of his excitement...I believe.

The camp system as it sits right now is broken but thats for another thread

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,400]

>>Many frequent P3-campers who have been to four 100-way event with
>>extremely high big-way currency, already outperform many of the 400-way
>>World Record team members who have not been staying big way current
>>lately.

>Data to back that claim?

I'd say that's true in general, although I'd phrase it as "people who want to get on a dive will outperform the people who have been there for a while."

That's not surprising when you think about it. Someone who has successfully done the past four world records with World Team is going to have an easier time getting on the fifth World Team attempt than someone without that track record - so it's easier to let their skills slide a bit more. One guy on the last dive told me that he'd done nothing but tandems since the last world team. Someone who is doing bigway practice dives regularly is going to, in general, be better than the guy who doesn't have to.

[Ron 7]

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I'd say that's true in general, although I'd phrase it as "people who want to get on a dive will outperform the people who have been there for a while."

That's not surprising when you think about it. Someone who has successfully done the past four world records with World Team is going to have an easier time getting on the fifth World Team attempt than someone without that track record - so it's easier to let their skills slide a bit more. One guy on the last dive told me that he'd done nothing but tandems since the last world team. Someone who is doing bigway practice dives regularly is going to, in general, be better than the guy who doesn't have to.

And Dan BC does not have to train to beat people that are training like hell in 4way

But if I were building a 4 way team, I'd pick up BC before most of the up and commers.

Still, none of your response provides any data to back his claim of 'many P3 folks outperforming many of the current record holders'

I am still waiting for him to provide that data.

I believe personally that he is either getting a little over exuberant, or he is parroting something he was told to him by someone selling him on the camps. Most likely a bit of both.

I have no dog in this fight.... I have not done a 100 way in 13 years and even though I have been offered slots... I choose not to go.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mirage62 0]

This is an interesting subject but perhaps off the thread title a bit.

In the end it the camp system is a good thing, it works to a degree. It does make people money and believe me there is nothing wrong with that.

If you jump at the RIGHT dz and the RIGHT people know you than you aren't going to need a camp as much - OR AT ALL - to get on the records if you are current and have done lot's of big ways.

If you do a lot of big ways but not with person who is organizing the CURRENT big way you interested in and they are part of the camp system you may or may not have a problem depending on the demand for the slots.

These people who don't jump at the right dz, with the right people and don't go to the camp do have the risk of being replaced by camp jumpers.

It's a risk you take when you opt out of the camp system. If you want it bad enough go to the camps, move to Peris

For me, a west coast camp is 6 day gig and around $3,000. I love big ways. I don't mind camps they can be a lot of fun but I'm happy sending my 6 days/3K elsewhere.

These are fact as nicely put as I can say them, as I see them. Nothing wrong with camps but they serve a amjor business function to.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little