Why are you a rigger?

[Jessica 0]

Why are you a rigger? Or studying to be one? It's a lot of trouble, and time, and expense, and there isn't a great financial return.

What was your motivation to get your ticket?

Skydiving is for cool people only

[rigging65 0]

When I was learning to skydive at Perris Valley (on a VERY accelerated program) I started to ask around about how reserve deployments worked. I'm a very technical minded person and I like to know how all my toys go together and what actually goes on when you enter a input.

To make a long story short, I was new to the sport so I didn't know exactly who I should be asking about this, so I asked my Coaches. They basically shrugged and said "You pull the handle and the reserve deploys."

This wasn't good enough for me. I took a bit of time off and after a few months got myself into a rigging course, mostly just to answer my own questions about function. Who knew I'd end up running a loft, Managing the facility and teaching rigging courses?

Truth be told, most of the people who come through our courses have the same questions as I did (they just want to know how their stuff works), so that's the way we teach the class. It's been VERY productive for the overall learning cycle in the classes!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Ruffles 0]

I am just like you. I absolutely have to know how every little part works. How much is it to attend one of those courses and how long are they?

..

[eames 0]

It may not provide a great financial return, but it will provide great savings. How long do you plan to be skydiving? How many repacks, etc. does that amount to?

I initially got my ticket so that I could simply do my own rigging. Now, as I expect happens with many riggers, I do more rigging for others than I do for myself.

Rigging also allows you to become more familiar with your gear and gear in general. Like the others, I like to know how things work...

Jason

[rigging65 0]

PM me with your email addy and I'll send you across our course outline with prices and such. It looks like the next one we'll be holding will be from the 14th to the 22nd of March.

A Senior Rigger's ticket is a great way to be at least educated enough to say "I don't know what's wrong with it, but I know it's not right...let's go find someone who knows more about it." It might save someones life! (and that someone might be you!)

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[CrazyIvan 0]

How long it takes to become a rigger?

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[skygod7777 0]

Quote

Why are you a rigger?

because my dad said that i needed to be one if i wanted to go anywere in skydiving. i started packing reserves with him when i was like 12, and then i just didn't want to deal with it, and use his seal, he said that i needed to get my own so if i wanted to travel, because i couldn't use his when he wasn't at least in the same state

later

[indyz 1]

Quote

How long it takes to become a rigger?

There are courses that can take you from never having seen the inside of a reserve container to senior rigger in a week. A lot (I would assume the majority) of people take the longer route, studying at home, apprenticing under a local rigger, helping out at the loft, etc. That can take anywhere from months to years.

[Jessica 0]

Quote

There are courses that can take you from never having seen the inside of a reserve container to senior rigger in a week.

Generally, I don't think you can actually become a rigger in a week. I hear that most people who come out of those short courses with their tickets have already been studying/apprenticing for a while.

Here is a good post by riggerrob on the subject.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[rigging65 0]

Quote

How long it takes to become a rigger?

Our courses run about 8 days long. At the end of that there is a written, oral and practical test that you must pass. Once this is done, you receive a seal number and away you go.

As someone else mentioned though, BECOMING a rigger is an ongoing process. You're always learning. Just because you have a ticket doesn't mean you know everything there is to know for the level you're certified at. Working under another rigger after (or before) you get certified is an excellent way to learn more and become more proficient!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[grega 0]

Main reason is because i wanted to be an independent skydiver.
And the second is, because i trust myself the most, and really like to know that reserve is packed properly. I heard of many cases when riggers were packing reserves in the way, they wouldn't open.

"George just lucky i guess!"

[PhreeZone 15]

If I chop at a boogie I want to be able to get back in the air ASAP and not have to wait around to find a rigger, then make sure he's got the tools, then wait for him to pack my rig... Land, recover parts, pack, jump.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rigging65 0]

Quote

Generally, I don't think you can actually become a rigger in a week. I hear that most people who come out of those short courses with their tickets have already been studying/apprenticing for a while.

That is absolutely not true. We've taken many people who had never seen a parachute before and had them totally capable at the end of our 8 day course. That's not to say they were expert riggers, but with a lot of hard work, nightly reading assignments and good old FOCUS, most people can learn enough to get their ticket in a week. There is a lot to learn, and not everyone passes, but it is certainly possible to reach a level of expertise that the FAA will sign you off for in a week.

Of course, any prior experience is always helpful. And, as I've already noted before, ANYONE with a brand new ticket is probably not qualified to rig totally unsupervised.

Again, a Senior Rigger's ticket is a license to learn, and it should be treated that way. An intensive course is a great way to get your feet wet by through total submerssion in a very structured environment. It puts you way ahead in your learning curve and allows you to find your own personal weak points to work on later.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[MrHixxx 0]

I have always had a strong curiosity about how my gear works and how I can tailor it to my needs (yes, I am a bit particular). In addition, I want to protect my friends in the sport (everyone qualifies here when it comes to safety). When I can spot something in the plane on someone or a student it is definately rewarding.


-Jon

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[skybytch 259]

Quote

Again, a Senior Rigger's ticket is a license to learn, and it should be treated that way.

That's a fact. I learned a lot on my way to my ticket, but I learned a lot more after I got it!

I started working on mine primarily for the knowledge; secondary reason was to maintain mine and my b/f's gear. It was only after I was almost done with the required pack jobs that the idea of making money with it became important.

[jerm 0]

Slowly but surely on my way. Unfortunately i've been too poor to hit DeWolf's course, but i plan on stepping up my apprenticing this year and get it.

Why? I just can't know enough about how the stuff works. I'm naturally curious about how stuff works, i take most everything apart, and I really like know what's going on with my equipment....

It also really bugs me how many people know so very little about their gear. Most i can hope for is to know all i can so that i can pass info on in whatever little bites people are willing to accept.

I've also been mistaken for a rigger before -- had another rigger refer someone to me -- and although it was flattering it really sucked having to admit that i wasn't one.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[Jessica 0]

Quote

There is a lot to learn, and not everyone passes, but it is certainly possible to reach a level of expertise that the FAA will sign you off for in a week.

Of course, any prior experience is always helpful. And, as I've already noted before, ANYONE with a brand new ticket is probably not qualified to rig totally unsupervised.

This is bugging me. I have a problem with the idea of someone knowing enough to convince the FAA to give him a ticket, but still being unqualified to rig on his own -- even though it's perfectly legal for him to do so.

It's like giving someone a driver's license even though he obviously shouldn't be driving without an instructor in the car.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[masher 1]

Probably more like driving on P-plates...

Slower top speed, lower blood alcohol level et al.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Gravitymaster 0]

It's not an issue of convincing the FAA you are proficient. In fact the FAAs' precence at the Practical Test is only to observe the DPRE. The FAA inspectors wouldn't have the slightest idea as to whether you are proficient or not.

The person you have to convince is the DPRE and that is done by packing 20 reserves correctly during the course along with showing at least some proficency in other areas' such as sewing, installing grommets, snaps etc

There is also a sense of what to do if you are unsure ie. call the manufacturer or anothe rigger as well as basic rigging ethics.

During the Practical exam you are required to demonstrate your abilities to completely assemble a rig while closely watched by a DPRE. There is absolutely no help given by the DPRE. You either know what you are doing or you don't.

[riggerrob 558]

I started rigging because it took forever for the local Master Rigger to repack my reserve.
Oh, and I am curious about anything that flies.
My older brother helped by giving me a copy of Poynter's Manual, Volume One. Only the black edition was available back in those days. I read it cover to cover three times before the start of the course. That helped because I was short a few pack jobs, but since my book knowledge was head and shoulders above any other candidate, they let me through.
In the long run, my FAA Senior Rigger ticket has earned me more money than all my instructor ratings, college diplomas and university degree combined. When other instructors grumble about the rain, I sew in my dry, warm, well-lit loft.
This time of year, I am one of the few Canadian skydivers who is fully employed, albeit in the loft.

As for other comment about a Senior Rigger License being a lesson to learn. Every license is a lesson to learn. No course can possibly cover every possible aspect of rigging and manufacturers introduce new gear every year.
Curiosity is the key to becoming a good rigger. A curious rigger will always try to learn something new evey week, whether it is packing a new type of reserve, mastering a new finger-trapping tool or learning a simpler way to patch a canopy. When the curiosity runs out, it is time to quit rigging.

[Gravitymaster 0]

What are your thought on creating a new rigger classification that would allow a jumper to pack ONLY his/own reserve without supervision? I know a lot of jumpers who are only interested in packing their own rig but don't want to invest the time or money to go through a rigging course.

It could lead someone to acquiring the skills they would need to become a Senior Rigger. It would allow someone to gain more experience before taking the Senior riggers course. It would also produce a safer skydiver because people would learn more about their gear at an earlier stage of jumping. I would even go so far to propose it be part of the new 'D' licence set to go into effect later this year.

Only difficulty in getting something like this through would be convincing the FAA of it's value and then getting it approved. You know how Gov't red tape can be.

[rigging65 0]

Quote

What are your thought on creating a new rigger classification that would allow a jumper to pack ONLY his/own reserve without supervision? I know a lot of jumpers who are only interested in packing their own rig but don't want to invest the time or money to go through a rigging course.

It could lead someone to acquiring the skills they would need to become a Senior Rigger. It would allow someone to gain more experience before taking the Senior riggers course. It would also produce a safer skydiver because people would learn more about their gear at an earlier stage of jumping. I would even go so far to propose it be part of the new 'D' licence set to go into effect later this year.

Only difficulty in getting something like this through would be convincing the FAA of it's value and then getting it approved. You know how Gov't red tape can be.

My big problem with this is how often is that "personal-rigger" working on his/her rigging skills? Someone who (assuming they follow the letter of the law) is only packing their rig 4 times a year isn't very current. Would you let your rigger work on your gear if that's all the more work they did a year? I doubt it.

One reason why people get rigging tickets is to fulfill their curiosity, as has been stated. Many of those people realize that they won't be doing any rigging after the course, and that's ok. The ones that scare me are the ones that are gung-ho about it, get the ticket, then just use it as a call-line on the DZ. You know the ones, those guys that have to throw out the "Yeah, I'm a rigger" whenever the new chick (or guy) is around. They fall into the same category as the curious jumper/rigger who just wants info, but they're dangerous because they can be goaded into doing work they shouldn't be doing.

As for the FAA's standards and not feeling real secure with someone who can just barely get by, what do you think the DMV does every day? Standardized testing is just that, a single test that can be used to qualify people to perform an action. Whether or not they're really good at something is irrelevant most of the time. Sad, but true. And you wouldn't want to pay the rates for rigging work if the criteria were as stringent as it "should" be....

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Jessica 0]

Quote

You know the ones, those guys that have to throw out the "Yeah, I'm a rigger" whenever the new chick (or guy) is around.

That made me laugh.

Quote

And you wouldn't want to pay the rates for rigging work if the criteria were as stringent as it "should" be....

And most of us don't have that kind of vacation time.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[riggerrob 558]

Mr. Gravitymaster,

That sounds like a question for the International Rigger Standardization Program. IRSP is an informal group that grew out of RIG. Is has official powers. At this point we are just collecting information. The long term goal is an international standard for riggers - similar to FAI licensing standards for skydivers.

While I agree that a Reserve Repack Endorsement would be nice, the concept has worked gracefully in some countries while it bombed miserably in others. Both Australia and Britain have "Packer A" ratings that allow people to only repack reserves. It would be interesting to see how many Aussies and Brits are actually repacking reserves with that rating.
Aussies, now it is your turn to pipe up!
Brits, same for you!
In France, every senior skydiver used to be able to repack his own reserve, but the job usually fell to the two or three best reserve packers on every DZ.

Several nations have tried - and discarded - reserve packing endorsements. The Canadian Sports Parachuting Association used to have a "reserve repack endorsement", but the results were so dismal, they quietly dropped the program back in the 1970s.
By the same token, the German DFV used to have a "packur" rating, but they produced some of the ugliest reserve repacks I have ever seen!
Germany recently introduced new rigger certification standards that are close to FAA standards. Now the entry level in Germany is similar to FAA Senior Rigger.
The thing that amazed me was the number of German skydivers who would walk right past a flock of German "packurs" to ask T.K. Donle or me to pack their reserves. Back in those days TK was a well-respected FAA Master Rigger, but I was a lowly CSPA Rigger A!

An earlier poster was correct in stating that it will be difficult to convince the FAA that a RRE is a good idea. Part of that is that one airline crash gives the FAA as much headache as the next 150 tandem fatalities. Sorry folks, but skydivers are small potatoes in the FAA's eyes. Your other problem will be convincing the FAA to change a system that works.

Repacking reserve is only half the job, You are really paying for the inspection. It takes a while to learn how to spot common wear problems, as well as acquiring the experience to know which wear problems can be quietly ignored and which problems need to be sewn by a Senior or Master Rigger.
Compatibility is another big issue. Back when I started rigging in 1984, compatibility was a nightmare. Nowadays, compatibility can be reduced to a chart or two.
My final point is that rigging is becoming so specialized that amateurs will soon be pushed out of the market. I repack about 200 reserves a year, but still struggle over the tiniest, most fashionable reserve containers. Few amateurs have the patience, experience and skills required to close the tiniest reserves. This is closely related to the issue or\f currency. Would you rather have your reserve repacked by someone who packs three or four reserves per year or someone who repacks three or four hundred reserves per year?

Rob Warner
CSPA Rigger A
pompous FAA Master Parachuite Rigger

[councilman24 36]

I'm a rigger because I quickly learned that I couldn't trust any of the riggers in the area (in 1982 when I started rigging), one rigger almost killed me with a 1400' reserve total (pulled at 1700'), .... and I like playing with other peoples new gear. And it was cost effective. I owned three rigs at the time. Still do.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE