Canopy Suggestions?

[Andy_Copland 0]

I've been on a Diablo 150 for a while now and as much as i love how it turns i dont like its glide or flare.

I flew a Nitro 150 before that for a few jumps and loved it, but it just didnt feel as fast as the Diablo when cranking a toggle.

I want something around the 130-135sq/ft mark.

I want to try a 135 Nitro but is there anything else you'd advice i look at?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[bob.dino 0]

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...it just didnt feel as fast as the Diablo when cranking a toggle.

I'm not sure there's much out there that toggle-turns as fast as a Diablo. Maybe a Stiletto?

...but I wouldn't recommend a 135 elliptical to anyone with 160 jumps.

[AggieDave 6]

What are your long term canopy goals? Are you wanting to progress into competitive or sunset swooping; or are you wanting something that really cranks when you turn?

Those two don't always go together. A well thought out and modern canopy progression starts you on canopies that lead to the next performance wing while you learn the important fundamentals along the way. For instance for a competitive swooper starting with a Sabre2, downsizing through the canopies until you get to the point of progressing to the performance skills needed for the Katana then to the Velocity is a great progression.

Similar with the Icarus and their progression Safire2, Crossfire2, VX.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,421]

>I want to try a 135 Nitro but is there anything else you'd advice i look at?

Safire2 might be a good option if you want more glide. Depends what you're looking for. Few canopies will turn as fast as a Diablo; high rate toggle turns are not the #1 design goal in most canopies nowadays.

[2shay 0]

safire 2 would be a good one. The diablo is known for turning fast, and also known as having very very little flare. I think that you will find in the future that how fast your canopy turns will be little concern to you.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[CKSCUBA 0]

The Diablo is a Triathlon with the rear end carved out of it.
it is high performance and it turns very fast for spinning. Your right it has a steep angle and it has good speed but you have to be good because it doesn't have a lot of flare or bottom end.

i dont thinks it is a good choice the nitro is a clear better canopy.

It is hard to find something that spins fast and flat glide.

The stiletto has a very flat glide and spins fast, openings can be hard and all over the place.

the pilot and sabre 2 are great canopies for glide and the safire inst that bad.

the katana is an advanced canopy until you have around 500 jumps its not one to be on. I am a fan of the Crossfire2 its has a nice glide, great forward speed, super nice openings and great flare. It is not as radical as the Katana but some would argue you need 500 to fly it and thats what the manufacturer says.

I think nitro is a great canopy. but what are your goals where do you want to be at the 500 jump mark are you wanting to get into swooping? i think the nitro can do almost anything.

i also love the cobalt its turns fast and has good speed and glide and flare.

just down size very slowly take your time, dont rush, even if you have to force yourself. It is not a race but a personal journey in your progression.

canopy coaching isnt that expensive either and its great you will learn things so much faster and clearer and safer.

just thought i share a few things.

chris

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thanks for the input fellas.

Im not looking to swoop yet, i just want something fun to fly that could do a little turf surf with me one day. I want this canopy for a long time. I should point out i am quite light, my profile is accurate.

I'm definately going to demo the smaller Nitro, i loved everything about it. I'll be on the lookout for a safire2 while im at it and give that a try.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[AggieDave 6]

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Im not looking to swoop yet, i just want something fun to fly that could do a little turf surf with me one day. I want this canopy for a long time. I should point out i am quite light, my profile is accurate.

Then I highly recommend you look at the class of canopies that include the Sabre2, Safire2 and Pilot. Personally I don't think the Pilot is worth your time and the Sabre2 is the best of the bunch but that's another story for another time. For you, try to get your hands on all three of them in appropriate sizes for your exit weight check them out and buy the one you like the best.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy_Copland 0]

I've got a few jumps on a sabre2 150. I found the openings fine for the most part and the front riser pressure was light. Toggles it felt huge though.

I much prefered the Nitro to it.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[AggieDave 6]

That's fine, as long as you find the canopy that is appropriate for your skill level and exit weight.

I'm not a fan of how the Nitro dives or recovers for swooping, but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't enjoy it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CKSCUBA 0]

i think of the 3 pilot, sabre 2 and the safire the sabre 2 may be the over all best as aggiedave says. the nitro is in the next class up canopies.

Much more dangerous so dont load out to much, avoid that temptation. if you do stay with the Nitro's you can down size gradually down the line and resell yours. As you progress get the coaching and have people watch and video your landings. right now work on a perfect flare and accuracy.

When i was at your numbers i was doing very easy slow carving turns into landing to get a bit of speed.

Just take your time and get coaching, many people fly canopies and just decide to start whip it in and riser in thinking the know the canopy and what to do but then things happen fast and things happen that they would never expect and they flare late or early and you know they get hurt.

One guy on here wrote that swooping is like martial arts with the belt system and you would be say a white belt. Well find a coach and safely get into it if that is your goal.

i know lots of swoopers very few have been hurt. Everyone i know who was ever hurt when they were learning to swoop didnt have coaching and was trying to do way to much to fast and really had no idea what they were doing. Trying to do it on their own.
I have never crashed and never have been hurt, in my learning.
So just take your time, i is not a race.

One time a friend of mine said hey lets open high and do some crew stuff. I was like, " Dude you dont know shit about crew and neither do i. there is so much to it and we dont have the jump number or experience or training. " He said, " Ok fly straight and i will come by and dock with you." I said, " no way your going to have to catch me first."

My friend crashed a few times and broke a vertabra in his back, now he doesn't jump anymore. It is that mentality and that type of rush to do something cool with the lack of knowledge, training, and experience that gets good people hurt.

I think the nirto is a great canopy whether you want to swoop or not. what ever you decide.

Chris

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thanks Chris

I would say im very conservative with my canopy piloting regularly practicing brake turns/flat turns and other drills.

I was starting to make lower 90 degree turns to build speed on the Nitro, generally just getting a feel for a faster approach but stopped doing that when i got the diablo as i just didnt feel comfortable doing it with it, its decent was much faster.

I think i will go for a Nitro and get myself on a canopy course for good measure while im at it.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Pendragon 1]

Experiment with 45 degree front riser turns - and quite a few times at that - before progressing to 90s. Build consistency in your input; much harder at first than you think!

My personal recommendation would be the Safire2. You may find the Pilot/Safire2/Sabre2 less responsive on the toggles - but they'll dive more on front riser input. You can't have everything in a design! Quickness on toggles isn't exactly high on most people's priority list nowadays... and I'm not really sure how desirable it really is.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[Andy_Copland 0]

Cheers Richard, thats another person saying safire. Yet to jump one so i'll try get my hands on one.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[newswooper 0]

Ok I did more than 500 jumps on nitros and I think it’s the best semi elliptical canopy and I had sabres and safires2
The next step in the future for quick inputs would be the mamba or blade for swooping katana or xf2
Decide what you like that what I did and now I use for swooping a jvx and for fun a blade

[marks 0]

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Cheers Richard, thats another person saying safire. Yet to jump one so i'll try get my hands on one.

Andy,

just to put my own 2 cents in, I prefer the safire2 over the sabre2, mostly for the openings. but I also feel it is a canopy that gives you a wider range, more room to grow on. but it, like most of Icarus canopies, don't have that snappy toggle wippy feeling you have grown to like...

get out of liking that, you will thank me later for it.

edit to add:

I think the nitro will offer you what your looking for right now.. and you can get em new at a GREAT price!

I like the nitro and the safire, but have not tried the pilot or the sabre2. I have jumped a sabre on many many times though.

good for you for asking these questions andy, I know your style, and i'm glad to see you asking AND listening..
demo demo demo....

ohh, and p.s., loose the toggle monkey loving.

lol....

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thanks Mark

If I see you up the farm i'll come have a chat with you about it.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[bob.dino 0]

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but it ... don't have that snappy toggle wippy feeling you have grown to like... get out of liking that, you will thank me later for it.

Good point .

[marks 0]

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Thanks Mark

If I see you up the farm i'll come have a chat with you about it.

read it again andy, I edited it after you posted this...

see ya sometime soon man.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Cheers Shimmel

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[billvon 2,421]

You're getting some good advice, but one thing I'd caution you about is that a recommendation for a canopy that flies well at a 150 size (or a 109 size) doesn't necessarily translate into the same performance at the 135 size. The Pilot is a good example. Down to about a 132 they are excellent canopies; below that they start to open a little harder and have minuscule recovery arcs. Nitros/Nitrons tend to keep a bit more 'similar performance' as you downsize. Safire2's are surprisingly nice at higher loadings; they almost get better as you load them up.

In the end, it comes down to demoing the canopy you want at the size you want and seeing if you like it.

[hparrish 0]

Unless I'm missing something here........I haven't seen anything regarding your exit weight and wing loading.

160 jumps is not much experience to be downsizing too quickly. In my opinion a 20 Sq foot reduction is a bit quick with your jump numbers.

I realize the discussion is canopy performace characteristics. But I think we should back up and make sure you are following a correct progression.

You could be jumping a 135 Monarch, but if you're 215 out the door thats very aggressive.

Whats your exit weight? Whats your canopy progression? Who is your Canopy Coach?

[Andy_Copland 0]

I said my profile is accurate. I listed 163lbs as exit weight but im more like 155lb out the door right now.

I was jumping mainly a Pilot 188 at home renting in the UK. Here in the US i have jumped a number of 150s.

Sabre 150
Hornet 150
Sabre2 150
Diablo 150
Nitro 150
Spectre 150

I probably put 90 jumps on these, probably 70% of them on the Nitro and the rest o the Diablo with the others getting played with for a coupleof jumps.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[hparrish 0]

Okay so for clarity's sake.....

I'm assuming you are calculating 15-20 Lbs for gear plus your body weight to get your exit weight. If that is accurate then what you are talking about downsizing to is not overly aggressive. But I'd still recommend jumping a 150 for another couple hundred jumps.

150 Sq Ft Canopy = 1.1: 1 Wing loading for 165 Lb exit weight which is perfect for your jump numbers.

135 Sq Ft Canopy = 1.22: 1 Wing loading for 165 Lb exit weight. IMO a little aggressive for 160 jumps but not too crazy.

Also keep in mind that an elipticle design is going to be allot more aggresive than a semi-elipticle or square design of the same size. You are already jumping a Nitron 150....I doubt at 90 jumps on this wing you have tapped it's performance. Get a reputable canopy coach and have them give you some drill dives on that 150. I'll bet you'd be blown away by the performance you can still get from it.

Stay safe and make conservative decisions. Good Luck.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Yep i was adding the gear weight too, that was exit weight. And its closer to 155 now.

I dont actually currently own a Nitro 150, my friend was letting me jump there one so right now i own the Diablo 150 and it just falls out the sky with little flare or glide.

I want a canopy now that is really going to last me for a really long while, that i can dial in on and learn to pilot.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.