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avenfoto 0
QuoteIf you can't learn how to perform high performance landings under what you are currently flying, you certainly don't have any business downsizing for more speed and perceived "safety." Seriously.
woah.. ease up there brotha... i didnt say a thing about downsizing or swtching canopies or anything like that, just wondering what others thought ... it just seemed to me (i fly a sabreone150, that at my loading hooks 180 between 240 and 300) that a canopy with a longer arc, one would have more of a window to judge trajectory and plane out accordingly, thats all...
thanks for all opinions...carryon
so whats your wing loading???
Dave
Dave
http://www.skyjunky.com
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
avenfoto 0
175 in street clothes
Quoteso whats your wing loading???
It's like me asking you what yours is. In reality, it's none of my business.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
QuoteQuoteso whats your wing loading???
It's like me asking you what yours is. In reality, it's none of my business.
yeah I am a bit on the heavy side :-P
and mine is listed
1.8 on an xfire2 119 for any who want to poke at me...and personally I was told by my canopy instructor (Brian Germain) to move to the 119...the 99 only comes out of the gear closet when I am hella current and feel like I want to lift weights... BACK TO THE ORIGNAL POSTERS QUESTIONS
I was asking because he stated that his wingloading on a canopy that I have flown was causing quicker plane outs.... more questions ensue which I should have asked first...
Are you doing a single riser turn have you considered bumping up your turn 100-150ft and slowing it down...you will find more speed in your canopy and more swoop...also if you work on starting the turn slowing down the oturn with the opposite riser to get your self on line and then bring the opposite riser to the same level as the other riser to bring yourself on line that you will in fact have lost a hell of a lot more altitude than you are losing now...even on a sabre 150...then add in the easing out of your fronts instead of bringing your canopy from diving to trying to recover instantly causing almost a positive recovery arc, try easing the risers out smoothly so that you almost stear your own recovery arc, this will help immesnly too...
Now my final point...practise this shit up high man and always be prepared to bail to your toggles and dig em quick...
Cheers and fly safe brother
Dave
PS I am in now way in any form downing your current experience level, some of thgis shit you may be doing some of this shit you may know, but how would I know that I dont liev near you
http://www.skyjunky.com
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
djd 0
QuoteI will never, ever agree with the argument that you "need" to have a long-recovering canopy in order to learn to swoop. If you are fucking around and banging turns at random altitudes in hopes of "figuring it out" then yes, you are going to be worse off with short-arc canopy. BUT, if you are working out your turns in a proven, scientific manner (which I have reposted over and over and over), then there is no reason why you ought to concern yourself with changing canopies. You guys that say that we older swoopers "had it all wrong" under our highest-performance-available Monarchs, Sabres, Excalliburs, BlueTracs, etc tickle me. No, you are not going to go 400 feet+ under an original Sabre, but you can certainly master every one of the skills needed to help you survive under a smaller, MUCH faster, longer-recovering main.
It's my opinion that at least 90 percent of the skydivers I have ever met don't have any business jumping anything smaller than a Sabre 135.
If you can't learn how to perform high performance landings under what you are currently flying, you certainly don't have any business downsizing for more speed and perceived "safety." Seriously.
I dont normally post on here as you can get a lot of people attack you for what seems like no reason other than they are arsholes.
But id like to say for the record that this is one forum where the advice usually given is pretty much spot on,
i left all off this post so people can read it again... well said...
people should swoop and learn to do it safely at a pace that is safe to them.
some are much quicker than others granted but everyone needs coaching..
heres a thread to my progresion at the perris pond yesterday.
taking my setup point back a bit further each time.
it was my first attempts at going over water and it certainly got my blood pumping. but getting my foot wet at last was awsome..
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5117
Learn slow.....Go fast...Stay safe...ish..
champu 1
QuoteIt's my opinion that at least 90 percent of the skydivers I have ever met don't have any business jumping anything smaller than a Sabre 135.
QuoteFor the record, I put 500 jumps on a Sabre 135 at 1.3 ish, and thats the canopy I learned to swoop on.
QuoteI am currently learning to swoop on a Sabre 135.
Quote...and now have a Sabre135 and have about 180-200 jumps (all HP landings) on that.
QuoteI learned the basics of swooping on an old-school Sabre 135
Hmm... I, also, did about 600 jumps on a sabre 135, and learned to swoop using it...
The more I think about it, the more I realize that long-arc, short-arc, every canopy you get is going to be different. You can't expect to learn how to swoop using a sabre2/safire2, and then "plug-in" a katana/xfire2 (or, further down the road, a velo/vx) to get longer/faster swoops without having to throughly learn the new canopy and adjust/improve your technique anyway.
So while you're wherever you're at, why not go with something that's going to be the most forgiving of the mistakes you will make.
shit dude I learned to swoop on a sabre2 170
http://www.skyjunky.com
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
Quoteshit dude I learned to swoop on a sabre2 170
Mine was a Sabre 170. Close enough! Represent!!
champu 1
Quoteshit dude I learned to swoop on a sabre2 170
QuoteMine was a Sabre 170. Close enough! Represent!!
Alright, alright, I'm a lanky bastard, I get the point...
Not to mention alot of us SabreI fliers still get a swoop comprable to alot of the smaller canopies at our local DZs whether or not those other folks want to admit it (-:
-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --
-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --
and heres the funny part...I have tested out the velo...own an fx but consistantly at my home DZ I outswoop most (not all) of the velo pilots with my crossfire 2 119
:-P
D
:-P
D
http://www.skyjunky.com
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
I agree on both points, although I would note that the original post was asking if it made more sense to start with a canopy model that inherently has a longer recovery arc (say, Sabre2) vs. a canopy with a short recovery arc (say, Sabre1). It did not propose downsizing in order to achieve a longer arc.
I learned the basics of swooping on an old-school Sabre 135 (W/L 1.25ish), and it worked great. After about 500 jumps on it I moved to a Sabre2 120, which has served me very well also. Looking back, more experienced and wiser (note I said "wiser", not "wise"
Why? Because looking back, I DEFINATELY had less time to react on that canopy than I do on my current one. It's easier to abort mid-swoop, easier to make fine adjustments to compensate for slight mis-judgement of the turn, ect.
My point is, just because you swich canopies doesn't mean you have to downsize. Obviously, downsizing will NEVER result in additional saftey. Choosing a more appropriate canopy for your discipline (and experience of course), is likley a good idea. Yes, many, many people 10 years ago learned under Sabre's, Stiletto's, Monarch's, Splatwings, ect... Did you "have it all wrong"? No... as you say, it was the best available at the time. Today however, they are NOT the best available. There are other choices that are just as "safe" in the correct size, and fly more similarly to the canopies a swooper will want to transition to in the future.
NOTE: I actually agree with most of the statements made about the advantages of learning on a shorter recovery arc... there are pro's and con's to either choice. I am mearly offering some points on the other side of the argument.
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