kc10boom 0 #1 October 3, 2006 Well it took me 490 jumps to feel comfortable swooping; doing 270's anyway. Up until jump 490 I only did 90's & 180's;very consistently on a Sabre 170(350 jumps) and Stiletto 170(100+ jumps). A friend was demoing a Mamba 132 and he said I could try his Stiletto 150...so I did I talked to several swoopers at my dropzone and watched several hundred of their set-ups and swoops. I asked about set-up altitudes and entry points; felt ready. So I did 5 fairly decent swoops on the 150 from 400' to 500 feet; having to dig out on the one closer to 400'. Jump 495 was a bit different. I started my approach, not very focused and turned at what spectators say was "too low"(300-320). It was low; as I finished the last 70+ degrees I saw that i was too low and started to DIG!!!!!!!! I skipped across the gravel in my RW suit and it saved my legs from road rash. I have resolved to go back to the 170 and revisit 90's and 180's for a while...later! much respect for you guy's that can do the 270 Boomer NKAWTG...N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 October 3, 2006 I'm glad to hear that your close brush with serious injury resulted in only a hurt ego and some jumpsuit damage. Others aren't that lucky. The jumps spent time and time again learning the basics and working slowly up to a larger turn, a smaller canopy and more speed will pay off in the end. There's nothing secret to doing a larger turn. Its just something you can't learn by watching others, you actually have to build the skill set. It all starts with a consistant pattern and accuracy. If you can fly a consistant pattern and land accuractly then all it takes is learning what kind of turn to do and at what altitude. Beyond that it takes a good deal of experience to do everything else associated with completing a safe swoop. Canopy traffic awareness, wind awareness, obstical awareness and what your body position, harness position and everything else that goes into the turn actually does. That's the hard part. A monkey could be taught to fly a consistant pattern and complete a type of turn at a certain altitude. However, without the ability to fly that pattern and land accuractly, all the other skills learned won't mean squat for swooping. Good luck and have fun learning! I'm in the same boat with you right now, I have a new canopy that I'm going to have to spend the next 1000 jumps trying to dial in. Its going to be a really fun learning process. Needless to say I'm very excited.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #3 October 3, 2006 The best advice I've gotten was to NOT "try" 270's until you have perfected the 90. You should be at your setup point at relatively the same altitude every time. There is no rush to nail a 270. A good looking safe 90 is ALWAYS better than a janky, sketchy, scary 270. IMHO. Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #4 October 3, 2006 I spent like 450 jumps working on 180s and getting that sight picture in my mind and about 50 jumps practising 270s at higher altitudes before one day the stars aligned and there was a decent opporunity and I took it...now I generally throw the 270 but it took a while till they seemed more comfortable Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #5 October 3, 2006 here is a good opportunity for you to write down what you learned from this and keep it in your log book so you can remind yourself of what steps you took to get to that point so you can avoid the same situation in the future. For example, one might write down: When did you notice things going wrong (this can both mental and physical)? Were there signals (ie altimeter read 300' instead of 400') that told you to abort your initial plan? When did you start taking action to correct yourself? Was there anything else you could've done, in the terms of flying your parachute, to prevent the skip once you realized you were too low? The answers to these questions, and others you might think up, you don't have to post on this forum. but i would encourage you to write them down and keep them for yourself. Cause the next time this happens, and it will, you can see how far you've progressed. glad you're ok, but now learn from it.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #6 October 3, 2006 Its good to hear that there are people out there with the know how to say, "Maybe I need to tone things down a bit." I wish more people could realize that same thing if the situation presents itself instead of blaming it on other factors. Congrats on being a grown up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc10boom 0 #7 October 3, 2006 Thanks for the replies See you all in the Blue Sky...Boomer NKAWTG...N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #8 October 3, 2006 yeah there are some hella good people at skydance who have seen it before and can perhaps say somethign positive and who think logically about safety... another good thing to review (and remember when I am pointing the finger I will own whole heartedly that 3 are pointing back at myself) is that there is a big difference between Percieved ability and Actual ability...I would try adding some tools to your toolbox, see if there will be a advanced canopy course in your area and take it...read that pesky book I always mention called the parachute and its pilot with a highlighter and pen in hand to take notes in the margins and write down questions to ask someone in the know.... and most importantly brother stay alive its the most important step to become a hella hot swooper brother... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #9 October 4, 2006 A good swoop or hook turn is not measured by the degree of the turn. It is your ability to increase your speed effectively and then to translate that speed into a long, phat swoopalicious landing. You can do it with a 90. If you can't, get coaching and practice, practice, practice. I've never heard anyone comment on a good swoop by saying, "Wow. That was a good swoop, but you only threw down a 90." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #10 October 4, 2006 QuoteI've never heard anyone comment on a good swoop by saying, "Wow. That was a good swoop, but you only threw down a 90." worth highlighting... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #11 October 4, 2006 I have had a lot of fun swooping with 90s...in fact usually the 90 is the most important part of my turn Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #12 October 5, 2006 Is there any reason you tried your first 270 on a canopy that you weren't even used to jumping?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #13 October 5, 2006 QuoteIs there any reason you tried your first 270 on a canopy that you weren't even used to jumping? And Here it starts..................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #14 October 5, 2006 QuoteI have had a lot of fun swooping with 90s...in fact usually the 90 is the most important part of my turn Dave Agreed, i spent a lot of time throwing down 180's and i was so frustrated cos i could never have a consistent weekend. Out of 10 jumps some would be on the deck and cooking, the rest would be high all the time. Only recently at the advice of a friend have i gone back to 90's and already my distance, technique and style in the harness are improving in leaps and bounds. I just wish i hadn''t fought his advice for so long and gone back t the 90 earlier Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #15 October 5, 2006 QuoteAnd Here it starts..................... It's a perfectly reasonable question. One I'd ask of any jumper doing the same thing under an unfamiliar wing/size regardless of jump #'s. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 October 5, 2006 QuoteIt's a perfectly reasonable question. One I'd ask of any jumper doing the same thing under an unfamiliar wing/size regardless of jump #'s. It's more than reasonable, in fact, it should have been the first question or comment. Throwing down your first 270 on a canopy on size smaller than a canopy you only have 100 jumps on? How this didn't stand out as dumbass move number one, I'll never know.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #17 October 5, 2006 although I have to say that when I did my first jump on that velo 103 last week I did throw a 270...but when I did my first jump on the 99 FX I definately went for the 180... but if it is your first 270....yeah not so much Dhttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #18 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteAnd Here it starts..................... It's a perfectly reasonable question. One I'd ask of any jumper doing the same thing under an unfamiliar wing/size regardless of jump #'s. Blues, Ian It's a perfectly fair question for someone that has not admitted to screwing the pooch, and is pushing forward with bad decisions. This guy admitted he did some stupid things and is backing off. I think he should be commended for noticing he was in over his head and backing off. I'm sure we can save the "Lesson Statements", for the Hard Heads. Ummmm Like Me I think that more people would come fwd with their stories if folks didn't slap them down. I think constructive criticism is good, making people feel stupid is BAD. Stories like this are good lessons for others to learn from and mean more to low time jumpers or up and comers than people think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kc10boom 0 #19 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd Here it starts..................... It's a perfectly reasonable question. One I'd ask of any jumper doing the same thing under an unfamiliar wing/size regardless of jump #'s. Blues, Ian It's a perfectly fair question for someone that has not admitted to screwing the pooch, and is pushing forward with bad decisions. This guy admitted he did some stupid things and is backing off. I think he should be commended for noticing he was in over his head and backing off. I'm sure we can save the "Lesson Statements", for the Hard Heads. Ummmm Like Me I think that more people would come fwd with their stories if folks didn't slap them down. I think constructive criticism is good, making people feel stupid is BAD. Stories like this are good lessons for others to learn from and mean more to low time jumpers or up and comers than people think. _________________________________________________ SOO... After reading several replies I have decided that many of you so called experts have only expertise in running your mouths. Please do not be offended; I was not offended by all the salacious comments I read. I appriciate the comments in general; I know I fucked up and almost killed myself. Can't you just read the post and offer sound advice? Thanks "hparrish" for having my back and actually reading my original post and hearing what I had to say. Boomer NKAWTG...N Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chapsta 0 #20 October 9, 2006 wow... i typically don't reply here, but you could use some toning down in other areas besides canopy flight. these guys don't reply to you for themselves... what do they have to gain? They're trying to help, they've been there. You wanna post here asking for help then bash top canopy pilots for their concerns??? wake up chapsCarpe diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #21 October 9, 2006 Actually, he doesn't need to tone it down. Boomer is not a guy with an attitude. He realized he made a mistake and listed the choice he made about turn degree and the canopy he was on as mistakes. He was humble about what had happened and in all areas of skydiving I have found him receptive even eager for advice. Advice he gets from both top competitors and beer line swoopers at his home DZ. If you don't think, and I'm not saying it's happening here, that people talk just to talk on this forum...your not paying attention. One thing he didn't list...DON'T use an analog alti to set up and initiate your turn with. Strong work saving yourself from a painful mistake Boomer...I was running as soon as you initiated the turn.... Peace! JasonFaith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chapsta 0 #22 October 9, 2006 fair enough... sounds like he has a level head... i felt he might have been a little defensive in his last post, that's all. chapsCarpe diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
