Time to get a 'speed' cypres2?

[Miami 0]

I recently switched to using an AltiTrack...one of the really nifty features on it is the recording of vertical velocity under canopy. It's been registering my landings in the high 60's/low 70's pretty consistently, and yesterday one landing peaked out at 77mph. What do you think, sell my cypres and get a speed version?

Miami

[Spizzzarko 0]

The regular cypres is fairly intuitive, but I'm sure it can be tricked into firing. If you are loading highly and doing a sizable turn to final then it might be better for you. Think about it as a cypres is supposed to save you when you lose alti awaenes or get knocked out. The 94mph firing speed of the speed cypres is still acceptable for freefall jumps. I highly doubt that someone knocked out would be falling slower than 94mph, and the regular belly speed is near 110mph so it should fire when you need it to.

[polarbear 1]

Assuming your profile is right, you're at a very high wingloading, so it's definitely possible. I think it depends on what kind of turn you are doing and how you do it. I can tell you I did 270's under a velocity 96 at a wingloading of 2.1:1 and didn't have problems. A 630 under that same velocity at 2.1:1 fired the cypres. It depends on what you're doing. Have you been jumping a standard cypres for a while?

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[katzurki 0]

Funny you should mention that. A couple guys at my DZ borrowed my Altitrack, and when I sent them the logs, they all but jumped out of their pants... turns out their landings have been consistently within less than 10 ft/s of Cypres firing speed. Ignorance is a bliss, eh...

[twnsnd 1]

I've yet to experience a problem with my "Ghost" model Cypres. Although I've heard it only takes one mistake before you wish you had the SpeedCypres2 "Actual".

-We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.-

[marks 0]

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Assuming your profile is right, you're at a very high wingloading, so it's definitely possible. I think it depends on what kind of turn you are doing and how you do it. I can tell you I did 270's under a velocity 96 at a wingloading of 2.1:1 and didn't have problems. A 630 under that same velocity at 2.1:1 fired the cypres. It depends on what you're doing. Have you been jumping a standard cypres for a while?

C.J.,, explain please..

[Miami 0]

That's my line of thought, too...I only have the damn thing for if I get knocked out.

Miami

[Miami 0]

Always had a standard cypres...I'm really curious to know what my speeds were during my landings in Colorado, too.

edit - profile is correct and currently I do anything from a 90 to a 540, depending on traffic, weather, and spot. It was during a 540 that I got up to 77.

Miami

[polarbear 1]

Well...when I first got my Velocity 96, which I loaded at 2.1:1, I was doing 270's. At that time I had a Cypres in my rig but I never fired it.

About a year ago I started doing 630's on the same Velocity. At that time I had no Cypres (I had taken it out and sold it). I had a friend, though, who had a Cypres that had just passed the 12-year mark. I put it in my pocket and went up and did my normal 630. It fired.

So, what I meant was that if your wingloading is high enough, and you are doing a big enough turn, you could fire a Cypres.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[Miami 0]

Yea it is...
That AltiTrack is one badass piece of equipment though!

Miami

[Miami 0]

From what I've heard that version has a really high firing speed!

Miami

[marks 0]

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Well...when I first got my Velocity 96, which I loaded at 2.1:1, I was doing 270's. At that time I had a Cypres in my rig but I never fired it.

About a year ago I started doing 630's on the same Velocity. At that time I had no Cypres (I had taken it out and sold it). I had a friend, though, who had a Cypres that had just passed the 12-year mark. I put it in my pocket and went up and did my normal 630. It fired.

So, what I meant was that if your wingloading is high enough, and you are doing a big enough turn, you could fire a Cypres.

you fired it coming in for landing?
everything was set for the ground? and not an offset?

thats scary shit.....!

[polarbear 1]

Yep...it fired on landing and no, it was not set for any offset.

"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"

[Sinister 0]

Check out the Argus AAD it has a swoop mode. It basically goes in to standby mode once it registers a normal deployment.

Shane Murphy
www.adrenalinegeeks.com

[eUrNiCc 0]

My speed Cypres2 should be here any day now

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[Tonto 1]

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The 94mph firing speed of the speed cypres is still acceptable for freefall jumps. I highly doubt that someone knocked out would be falling slower than 94mph, and the regular belly speed is near 110mph so it should fire when you need it to.

I think a flat spinning wingsuit is almost certain to go slower than 94mph. The speed cypres and wingsuit dives seem a pretty pointless combo, but for regular dives it sounds OK.

As for the "knocked out" thing, 90% of AAD saves have been alti awareness issues so the "knocked out" scenario is statistically unlikely - unless it happens to you, of course.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Miami 0]

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As for the "knocked out" thing, 90% of AAD saves have been alti awareness issues so the "knocked out" scenario is statistically unlikely - unless it happens to you, of course.

Agreed, but my feelings are that at my experience level if I lose alt awareness I deserve to go in, i.e. it's my own fault. I could, however, be doing everything right and by some outside influence get knocked unconscious...that's why I keep a cypres in my rig. Well that and that my wife and daughter don't agree with me on the deserving to go in if I lose alt awareness.

edit for spelling

Miami

[Miami 0]

It does sounds pretty cool, but I'm very hesitant to buy something that new. Maybe once it's been out for a while and all the kinks are definitely worked out...

Miami

[rhys 0]

does airtec have a reccomendation as to which wingloading should use the speed model?

I'm ordering a new jvx in couple of weeks but i'll only be loading it 2.25-2.3 so i gues i'm way out of the dangerzone?? I hope.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[FreeFlyFridge 0]

As for everyone who´s interessted in knowing if they need a "speed-cypres" this Link should anwser most questions.
No Wingloading recommendation from Airtec...but they needed a 3.1 Wingload to exceed the activation speed of the "regular" cypres2.

Excerpt from the Link ...

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Research and Development - January 2006

Airtec recently received new data recordings from the Performance Designs Factory Team.
Jay Moledzki (member of the PDFT), performed several test jumps for us, which were split into 2 categories:
Jumps made with a current competition set up using a Velocity 90 (wing-loading of 2.45 with a removable deployment system), and jumps made with a Velocity 71 (wing-loading of 3.1), which is far beyond the present competition loading.



Competition set up results

Several jumps were performed, on 1 of the jumps Jay touched 115 ft/sec (35 m/sec), the activation speed of the EXPERT CYPRES, with his fastest jump showing 125 ft/sec (38 m/sec).

These speeds were reached below 750 feet. For these jumps the “Speed CYPRES 2” would have be a good choice, as the highest speed on these jumps were still 16ft/sec (4.87 m/s) below the activation velocity of the Speed CYPRES 2.(activation velocity for the Speed CYPRES 2 is 141 ft/s (43 m/s).

Please keep in mind that Jay reached these speeds below 1000ft AGL, and not at a higher altitude. Exceptional skills are necessary to recover and land safely with this speed and height loss.

Please don't automatically assume you think the speed CYPRES is for you. Take your style of landings into consideration and think carefully about the trade off between the Expert and Speed CYPRES.



Extreme high wing-loading Results

The jumps made with a very highly loaded canopy (Velocity 71, WL 3.1 - probably well outside of the current competition - set up) were much faster.

Jay initiated the turns much higher, was significantly faster and exceeded even the vertical speed of 43 m/s (141 ft/s) below 750 ft AGL. His highest speed was above 45 m/s (147 ft/s). The aim of theses jumps were to achieve the highest possible vertical speed under canopy. The information generated shows that it is not impossible to achieve near freefall speeds under an open canopy.



Conclusions made from this research

The average vertical speeds generated for 99.9% of skydivers range between 20m/s to 24m/s using semi-elliptical Zero porosity canopies and 25m/s to 28m/s using high performance elliptical/cross-braced canopies. This is well under the criteria needed for the “Expert CYPRES” to activate. This is also why the “Expert CYPRES” is still an ideal choice.

Only by using multiple rotations for extreme landings, made it possible for the “Expert CYPRES” to gather the criteria required for activation. In this case a very small circle of canopy pilots may benefit from the “Speed CYPRES 2”.

An even smaller circle of canopy pilots with extreme wing-loadings (normally only achieved with excessive amounts of lead and associated with solo jumps) and, with the intention to increase their vertical downward speed close to the activation criteria of the Speed CYPRES should maybe consider shutting off an AAD before boarding the aircraft.

Research has shown that auto shut off under canopy is not an option. Technically this could be easily achieved, but there are too many uncontrollable factors to make the right decision at the right time. This would also open the door to fatalities (cutaway failures) which Airtec shut over 15 years ago.

With all this in mind and forever changing landing techniques we can not rule out the possibility that 141 ft/s (43 m/s) will not be exceeded under an open canopy.

Keep your landings safe,
Airtec.

Interessting read.

------------------------------------------------------
ROCK ON,.....HARD!
Proud European!!

[rhys 0]

sweet, cheers for that. i don't wear lead and don't do more than 360's so i'm in the clear.

whew, i can't afford another toy!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Miami 0]

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...but they needed a 3.1 Wingload to exceed the activation speed of the "regular" cypres2.

Read it again, he was able to exceed the firing speed of an expert cypres at a w/l of 2.45. He exceeded the firing speed of the speed cypres at the 3.1 w/l.

Miami

[ntacfreefly 0]

Basically any extreme HP pilot should take this away from the article:

If you're doing more than a 360 you should realize that you are playing with fire.

I am currently in the process of getting a Speed Cypres. I haven't turned on my cypres for a while now because of the larger rotations on landing.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[Spizzzarko 0]

I'm sure most of you guys with the wing suits are not jumping canopies loaded around 2.3. The fact of the matter is if you are loading above 2.0 on a CB canopy, and with enough turn you can approach firing speeds on a regular cypres. A lot of us do not use them for what ever reason, but now Airtec is offering a device that will posibly save you if you are knocked out, or lose altitude awareness if you are jumping a smaller canopy with a bigger turn. Most people now are throwing down bigger turns to final to get more speed. Distance of a swoop is derived from speed on final approach, and many people are finding that the 270 is really not developing enough speed for them to be competitive with people doing 450's or 630's or what ever.

If you want the added peace of mind for a cypres and you are doing a larger turn then the speed cypres may be for you. My decision has been made. You should taylor your gear needs to what you are doing.

[Tonto 1]

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I'm sure most of you guys with the wing suits are not jumping canopies loaded around 2.3.

True, but most rigs that are sized for sub 100 CB will take Pilots, Safires, Sabre 2's etc around 120 sq ft loaded to 1.8, thus such a harness may have a dual role for a working skydiver.

I don't want to hijack this thread with WS stuff.

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You should taylor your gear needs to what you are doing.

Absolutely, but this is an indication that that's not always the case.

t

It's the year of the Pig.