Crossfire wing load

[freeflydemon 0]

Hi, I have 300 jumps, This was my progression:
10 jumps-MANTA 300 (@0.86)
90 jumps-SABRE 190 (@1.36)
30 jumps-SABRE 170 (@1.51)
170jumps-SAFIRE 149 (@1.73)

I'm thinking in buy a Crossfire 2 149 (@1.73), a lot of people told me is better to buy a 139 (@1.86) because the xfire is better at that WL. I made some swoop coaching and my coach told me that I have the enough skills tou get a xfire but is better to learn with the 149 than the 139

I don't know what you think? PLease comments

139 or 149?

[TALONSKY 0]

I sure hope your trolling, otherwise you are a DGIT

[DaGimp 0]

Quote

I sure hope your trolling, otherwise you are a DGIT

now......i cant agree here....cause i went from jumping student canopys (smallest 220) to a 150 (at 32 jumps) then to a xfire2 139 (at 132 jumps) then to a 119 and now a 99........yes i recieved alot of grief from others about my drastic step down......but i learned the canopy and flew it safely.....so i can see his progression cause mine was more drastic then his.

"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas

[TALONSKY 0]

Maybe you did not look at how he is loading his canopy. He weighs right around 255LBS out the door. The next step this guy wants to take will put him past your current wingloading on a crossbraced canopy with only 300 jumps.
Kirk

[DaGimp 0]

guess your right....didnt see the WLing.......funny cause i always tell young jumpers at my DZ.....it not about canopy size....its about the WLing

"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas

[PhreeZone 15]

At a point it is even about sizing. Smaller canopies handel differently then larger canopies even at the same loading. Putting someone at 1.4 on a 97 is different then 1.4 on a 210 and that needs to be thought about too.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rhino 0]

IF you go over 1.8 you are going past the sweetspot of that canopy. Go bigger and put on weight if you need to.

[skycat 0]

Quote

At a point it is even about sizing. Smaller canopies handel differently then larger canopies even at the same loading. Putting someone at 1.4 on a 97 is different then 1.4 on a 210 and that needs to be thought about too.

You make that sounds like a bad thing.

Being a small person at 1.3-1.4 on a 97 I can honestly say there is a huge difference in performance. On my 104 at 1.2-1.3 I can easily fly with bigger guys loading their canopies at 1.4-1.5 and stay right with them in strait flight, although if needed I can float better than them when getting back from a long spot. As for the landings well I'm not very aggressive so they blow me out of the water..

Fly it like you stole it!

[Widgeon 0]

What is the optimal WL on a crossfire? Icarus recommends something like from 1.4-2.2. I get all I want out of my 119 at around 1.65.

[Canuck 0]

"Optimal" is so subjective. To come up with an optimal wingload, you would need to know both what the pilot is wanting in terms of flight characteristics, and how the canopy is being flown.

I really liked the way my Crossfire 119 flew in the 1.7 range.

Canuck

[birdynamnam 28]

I fly my xfire2 119 at wl 1.8. I have found that its optimal for swooping. I have flown the 109 and the 129 so I could compare. Wl 1.8 seems to be optimal.

[skycat 0]

My wingloading is not optimal for swooping, but for me it was a good choice for the excellent soft landings I was looking for.

Hooknswoop jumped it at 1.7 and people thought he was landing a crossbraced canopy the way he was getting some increadible swoops out of it. So I think it depends on the person, as to what is optimal for them.

Fly it like you stole it!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

Hi, I have 300 jumps, This was my progression:
10 jumps-MANTA 300 (@0.86)
90 jumps-SABRE 190 (@1.36)
30 jumps-SABRE 170 (@1.51)
170jumps-SAFIRE 149 (@1.73)

I'm thinking in buy a Crossfire 2 149 (@1.73), a lot of people told me is better to buy a 139 (@1.86) because the xfire is better at that WL. I made some swoop coaching and my coach told me that I have the enough skills tou get a xfire but is better to learn with the 149 than the 139

I don't know what you think? PLease comments

139 or 149?

With your jump numbers we would let you jump a 1.3 wingload at my dropzone.

[TALONSKY 0]

Interesting you change the question your asking it originally was asking about buying a crossbraced canopy loaded at 2.3 to 1. I also find it interesting that your profile states you already are flying a Crossfire 2 139 and yet your changed question is asking if you should buy a Crossfire 2 149 or 139 so what do you really want to know or are you just trolling.
Kirk

[freeflyn 0]

This was a question the same user posted in April of this year.....
_________________________________________________________
My weight is 251 lbs with equipment, I started with a 190 sabre for at least 80 jumps (@1.32), then I went to a 170 sabre for 95 jumps (@1.48). A friend gave me his canopy to probe it, it was a safire1 149 (@1.68), I love how this canopy opens, good flare but it doesn't fly to fast and I didn't have to long flares (180º front risers) on it (better than sabres anyway). I made at least 20 jumps on it, but my friend need it, so I gave him back. Now I have to buy my own canopy, a lot of people told me that I have to buy a Crossfire 2 (xfires are very popular on my DZ), but I don't know if buy a Crossfire2 149 (@1.68) or 139 (@1.8).
Some people says that a crossfire on a low wing load isn't too efficient (1.68), that I need at least @1.75, but in the other hand I heard a lot of people talking about good flare and speed on his crossfire at @1.65.
I want the canopy for at least 2 years (350 jumps) but I'm not sure if the canopy flies good at this wing load (@1.68) or if I'll get bore to quick of this size and want to downsizing too quick.

It will make too much difference from 1.68 to 1.8?
Do I have to buy the 139 or the 149?

Anybody talk about his experience, tips, advices, anything.

I can't demo because I'm from Chile and I need a canopy right now.

Thanks
safe swoops


________________________________________________________________
Maybe he is just fishing........ as there is a bit of a discrepancy in the numbers between the two posts

[freeflydemon 0]

I flew a Xfire 2 149 today and It was excellent, amazing flare and opening. It has the recovery arc and speed I was looking for. I made a 90º with front risers, very nice canopy! I jumped 8 times today whit it.
I know that you think I'm a freak, but I think the freak is the person who sent me this picture (talonsky).
Wing Load is just a reference, size matter, but what really matter is what are you looking for and what your coach said.
In the US the canopy transition is very slow, ask to luigi canni about his transition and then try to think before send photos like this

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=43592;

If you don't have the skills for a Xfire doesn't mean that somebody with a X nº of jumps could have it.
Nice feet anyway!
I know what are my limits and I know that a lot of people in the US has injuries with crossfires, but I think that is for be too slow on the canopy transitions, if you fly a navigator 280 for 500 jumps you can't fly crossfire, but if you learn on "high" students WL (@0.9 to 1.1) I think you maybe can fly a xfire at 300 jumps.
WHAT REALLY MATTERS?: GOT SKILLS, BE FOCUS, BE SAFE AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

[Widgeon 0]

Easy man, Talonsky is just looking out for you and doesn't want your foot to look like that.

[TALONSKY 0]

Once again your totally avoided the question of why you change your original post from looking at buying a crossbraced canopy loaded at 2.3 to 1 to buying a Crossfire 2 139 or 149(which by the way why does your profile say you fly a crossfire 2 139?). Most everyone that has ever hurt them selves or died doing high performance landings thought they knew their limits too and were flying inside of those limits. We also thought we were special and smarter than the last people who hurt themselves. Bottom line for every person who really push’s the limits and makes it without getting hurt there are a lot that try and do get hurt. Most everyone that I know that has pushed to downsize quickly has gotten hurt to some degree. There is no substitute for experience.
Kirk
Oh and by the way flying a canopy at 2.3 to 1 is a complete different beast than flying 1.8 to 1.

[TALONSKY 0]

If you really think you are so special and great of a pilot you should check this out.
http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1154538;#1154538

I am quite sure he also thought he was flying inside his limits too.
In my opinion you will generally only know your over your head when you hit the ground really hard or have some scary landings.

Kirk

[kansasskydiver 0]

I don't think he should be flying it either, at my DZ he would not be permitted to fly it, regardless of how "safe" or "conservative" his landings are or could be, that's just how it goes, not safe no matter who it is

Chris

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[meatbomb 0]

To hijack the thread back to the OP...

When I was considering buying a XFire2, the guys at Icarus were recommending that I get a 149 (1.85), rather than a 169 (1.7), as they said I was underloading the 169...However, having done 850 jumps on a Sabre1 190 (1.5), I was more comfortable moving to the 169, and they agreed.

Having done 250 jumps on the 169, I now agree with them. I was finding that if I timed my turns just right, or too high, with the 169, I was getting so much lift that I was regularly climbing back in the air, with little or no input...This was leading me down the path to deliberately turning it a wee bit lower, and pulling it out of the corner, in order to get better landings. Obviously not ideal. In fact, 60 jumps ago I went back and bought another XFire, a 139 loaded at 2.0.

The 139 holds the dive much better, and enables me to turn higher, with the confidence that it will keep it's speed if I have judged the turn right or slightly too high. Plus the harness turns are awesome!

All this needs to be taken with the fact that I jump at Sea Level in Scotland (Highest Temp: 80F), so always a low Density Altitude. I guess from reading the other replies that because of this, and the fact that I have a larger wing, the same wing loading can cause such different behaviour. The other very interesting thing is that whilst my 169 snivels like fcuk, the 139 has very positive (whilst still soft) openings. I guess the WL has affected that as well...

To sum up...for me, the 139 is the better swooping canopy, however, I am very glad I went with the 169 first...I definitely learnt a lot of skills that I didn't have from my Sabre1, and in particular the differing sight pattern of the much longer recovery arc. To learn all these, whilst still having more wing above your head is invaluable. I would very strongly recommend that you get the 149, but only after at least another 200 jumps on the Safire. You won't be sorry. (IMO there is no reason or rhyme in jumping a fully elliptical canopy before 500 jumps...you simply don't have the experience/skills to use it)

---
Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii!
Piccies

[rhino 0]

It's a bad ass canopy.. I miss my xf2 loaded at 2.0... Fantastic canopy. I wish I could get that exact canopy with either airlocks or crossbraced..

[JumpRu 14]

What you guys think of XF2 at WL 1.7-1.8 and turbulence. I was not very happy with original XF at very light WL 1.3 and then jumped Samurai and Jedei (no problem with turbulence or gusty winds at all!) but i really miss XF openings and thinking to get one next. So my question is how XF2 at 1.7-1.8 flies in turbulent\gusty weather? How it feels compared to airlocked canopies?

[rhino 0]

I haven't jumped airlocked canopies so I can't help there. Their is a big difference in the way it flies through chop when you loosen your chest strap. The canopy has good speed. Only thing I have flown that does (better) flying through chop is the Diablo.

[kansasskydiver 0]

Quote

What you guys think of XF2 at WL 1.7-1.8 and turbulence. I was not very happy with original XF at very light WL 1.3 and then jumped Samurai and Jedei (no problem with turbulence or gusty winds at all!) but i really miss XF openings and thinking to get one next. So my question is how XF2 at 1.7-1.8 flies in turbulent\gusty weather? How it feels compared to airlocked canopies?

I wingload my xf2 at 2.0 and haven't really noticed a problem with turb or chopping/windy days. Living in KS it's always windy, around 15-25 and I regulary crosswind it unless my approach won't alow me too. On a lighter wingloading, I could see it being a problem for sure though

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!