Packing a new PD ZP Canopy

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Well any thought of selling my trusty (easy to fly and pack) Triathlon 220 main in favor of my new PD Sabre 2 190 canopy anytime soon has blown itself out the door. Now don't get me wrong, I was still planning on putting another 60+ jumps on my Triathlon, but today at lunch I had to go home and since I had some spare time I decided to try and pack the Sabre 2. It's a smaller canopy (with more cells) so I had to make some minor pro-pack adjustments compared to what I'm used to, but no big deal. I got it right. But as soon as I placed the canopy on the ground and attempted my s-folds, squish ... the canopy is all over the place. I'm sure wearing my jeans isn't the best fabric to be up against that slipper canopy fabric, but man what an adventure this is going to be learning how to pack that sucker. But I've got time. There's no need to rush this project. And if I look at it like a learning experience adventure (no doubt I'll become a better packer in the long term) instead of think of it as frustrating, then all will be fine. I think ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Pablito 0]

5 bocks to a packer and you see how they get pack.
the key is keeping pressure on the canopy all the way. don't let it get away. control it. You are the master. Interesting isnt it?
Cielos Azules
Pablito

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[Kirils 1]

Everyone has had problems packing new canopies. The Triathlon fabric you are used to tends to be less slippery than the DuPont Solarmax (I believe that's what PD is using for the Sabre II). There are a couple alternatives: Buy a Hornet instead of the SabreII (grin). The Hornet packs easier because it's the same fabric as your Tri, the lines are color coded and quite a few people believe it flies better than the new SabreII. If you don't buy that Hornet,
I would suggest trying to Psycho pack that slippery new canopy. It's one way to tame new ZP fabric. I wish you luck and PATIENCE.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[ChileRelleno 0]

HAHAHA liking trying to catch greased rattlesnakes!
I'd try the Psycho pack also...

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[councilman24 36]

GEt someone to show you, but here's how I do it, folding from the left side of the canopy.

When you reach under to s fold the canopy gather the rolled tail from both sides in your left hand as you reach under it. When you fold the canopy DON'T put your weight on it. You can put your right knee on it, but leave your weight on your left knee and only put enough weight on your right knee to hold it down. Put your left knee right next to stacked canopy. If you put your weight on it, it will squirt out. As you tuck the top in and get ready to put it in the bag put your right knee next to your left but on the rig side of the stack. Now you have your left knee on the left side of the stack and your right knee on the rig side of the stack, close together. This gives you a corner formed by your knees to work against. Put the far side of the stack in the bag first, then the part controlled against your knees. Make sure the locking stows bands are intact and ready to use, and have some in your pocket. Rotate the bag up in its bridle end so your now stuffing against the floor. I put one knee on the rig side and one on the other side of the bag kneeling facing the right side of the rig. Cross your ankles behind you and again you have a corner to work against. stuff it and lock it.

This is a poor attempt to describe what has become second nature. Everyone does it different.

Or, go drag it through the mud so it isn't as slippery. When I got my first one, after 6 years of rigging and 10 years of jumping, it took 10 pack jobs to get one I would jump. You will learn, it will get less slick, and eventrually you will be as fast as your triathlon. Never as easy but as fast. Don't give up, just sweat a little.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Sonic 0]

one of my friends at the dz was trying to pack his sabre 190 which is still slippery as **** into a bag that was TIGHT. He gave up on it and asked me to pack it. I psycho packed it and got it in the bag 1st time. Psycho packs really do make it easy to bag a canopy.

-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[TB99 0]

Just like others have said ... try the psycho pack. I psycho pack my Sabre2 religiously and have a brand new one coming in about 2 weeks which I DEFINATELY will be psycho packing. It's easier to get in the bag, ESPECIALLY for new canopies .. and it's a lot neater:)

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Thanks for all who replied to this thread. It looks like I need to learn how to psycho pack. I've already found a couple of useful URLs and if they don't help, I'll ask around the DZs I frequent to see if someone can personally show me.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AggieDave 6]

If you're good at pro-packing then you really don't have to learn how to psycho pack. All it takes is positive control of the canopy, yes it will be slippery, but if you make every effort to keep pressure on it at all time, then you won't loose control of it.

I wish you were at my DZ, I could show you the techniques I use to keep everything in place while I'm packing new canopies...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[falxori 0]

i have a pretty new sabre2 and the first few packs were a nightmare.
but with the help of a few nice ppl at the DZ, i got by.

i'm still not a perfect packer but its getting easier.

i no longer wait until its in the bag before i sign up for the next load

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[TB99 0]

Yea, Dave's right ... a good pro-packer won't need to psycho pack. I just suck as a packer in general, so it makes it easy for me to psycho pack. I can pro pack and I do know how to control the canopy while pro packing and get the job done, but it just takes me a lil longer ... more practice makes it better, but there are other reasons why I psycho pack anyways (like the openings).

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

like the openings).

Psycho packing doesn't do a thing to the openings, all it is is a different way to put a canopy in the d-bag.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skycat 0]

Come grab me next time you are at the DZ...I have some little chick tricks that work great.

Fly it like you stole it!

[TB99 0]

Uh, I beg to differ, Dave. I actually get softer (even tho the Sabre2 already opens soft!) openings and slower. Because the tail folds over itself, it takes a tad longer for it to open. My openings have been softer and on heading consistantly. I've compared my psychopack openings to other packers' pro-packs and haven't found a packer (even the best ones!) pack em as soft and slow as when I psycho pack. Also, the headings haven't been as consistant (but that can be from body postion, that's not concrete, however I get more consistantly on heading openings with the psychopack whether or not it's a body postion coincidence).

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[Sonic 0]

Quote

Psycho packing doesn't do a thing to the openings

I disagree as well, I find it slows them down.

-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Psycho packing doesn't do a thing to the openings, all it is is a different way to put a canopy in the d-bag.

I beg to differ, like others, I find that a proper Psycho pack does indeed slow the openings of a canopy. Don't believe me? Check out the Icarus website and their explanation as to why you should PRO pack the Crossfire.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[AggieDave 6]

The following is from PD's website:

Quote

The "psycho pack" is not really an entirely different packing method, it’s just a different bagging method. The first part of a “psycho pack,” the part that is done standing up, is identical to a regular PRO pack. The only difference is the technique used to fold the canopy and put it in the deployment bag.

For this reason, “psycho packing,” which we could perhaps call “psycho bagging,” may or may not make a difference in the way your canopy opens. If the first part of the pack job is sloppy, then the opening may not be very good no matter how the canopy is put in the bag. Let’s suppose, however, that you do a good basic PRO pack but tend to lose control while bagging the canopy, and end with a mess by the time you make the first line stows. If “psycho bagging” helps keep your neat PRO pack under control while you put it in the bag, your openings may improve using this technique.

We don't recommend the “psycho bagging” technique for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we feel there are easier ways to put the canopy in the bag that work just as well. We also do not think a canopy should be packed with a lot of material in front of the nose, which happens when you psycho pack.

We’ve made test jumps on a number of our main canopies using a psycho pack, and the openings were acceptable. We also know of some customers using this method with our canopies who are happy with the results. So, you can use the “psycho bagging” technique with your PD main if you want, but it is not the method we recommend.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

We also do not think a canopy should be packed with a lot of material in front of the nose, which happens when you psycho pack.

What do you suppose happens to your openings when you put a lot of material in front of the nose?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[TB99 0]

I always flake REALLY neatly and am picky about that ... and I am consistant with that part either psycho or pro packing ... the fact that I'm folding the tail over the nose twice is what slows it down ... yes, it is just simply a different way of putting it in the bag, but it slows the opening as well. If you do everything identical up to the part where you put the canopy on the ground then you should have a slower opening.
PS - Scott Miller from PD rags on me every time he sees me packing, lol ... ah well, it's all in good fun.

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[AggieDave 6]

Maybe I'm wrong, it just seemed that the riggers I know and trust (who are current and up to date on stuff like psycho packing) and a lot of other stuff I've read pretty much said it doesn't effect the opening, its just another way to put it in the bag. *shrug*

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kolla 0]

I'm with you Dave, I prefer to pro pack.
I can't really say that I'm a great packer, but my pack job is mostly under control and the openings are nice (normally jump a Stiletto).
The trick for me was practice practice practice and then practice some more....

At the end of the day - as long as you are getting openings that you like and your canopy isn't getting damaged - use what works for you! There are probably about as many twists on packjobs as there are skydivers - you'll soon find out what works for you.

I honestly really didn't learn how to pack properly until I had about 500 jumps, and went to a packing seminar at the DZ (DeLand), held by Scott Miller (of PD) - and that was about the time I was moving on to the Stiletto from a Sabre(and the Stiletto really didn't appreciate my former packing "technique")!

Best of luck Canuck - I'm sure you'll get the beast under control soon - enjoy your new canopy!

Blue Skies Magazine

[sar911 0]

Here is a good article on Psycho packing with instructions and pictures on how to Psycho Pack. It is the way that I pack and it is starting to be recomended for tandems also. Soft, on heading openings. Fast and easy way to pack.

[bobsoutar 0]

I've seen guys reduced to tears trying to get a new PD canopy into the d-bag.

I learned the psycho pack without rolling the canopy (or psycho bag as PD call it) when I was floundering around trying to bag my new Stilletto - a guy showed me this new weird upside down method, bagged it in less than 2 minutes and I've done it that way ever since.

It's great fun demonstrating it on a brand new canopy for someone who has been struggling for a while - they usually just kneel down and stare at the bag in disbelief!

[Samurai136 0]

Learning how to properly control the canopy is the key. It can be very challenging. If you look at the Psycho-pack photos, they flip the canopy over, place the tail so the canopy is V shaped and then fold the right and left 'ears' of the V so it's cocoon'd to the width of the bag and roll it up.

I do a similar thing w/ my PRO-pack, with none of the 'psycho' stuff.
Since I'm on the canopy until it's in the bag, cock the PC once I get the canopy on the ground. Standard pro pack, roll the tail, canopy on the ground, cock PC. Do Not flip the canopy over.

1. Get the remaining air out of the canopy and smooth the top skin so the canopy is V shaped.

2. Fold the left 'ear' of the V under the canopy, then fold the right 'ear' under the canopy. The canopy should now be the width of the bag and the left ear should be somewhat sandwiched between the top skin (against your body) and the right ear. This is similar to how you fold a letter to put it in an envelope.

3. Place left forearm across the top of the canopy pinning it to the ground, hop up (do not move your forearm) and place your left shin where your forearm is.

4. Make the first half of the s-fold, keep right hand pressure on the warning label, release the top portion of the canopy and place a knee on the right and left side of the warning label.

5. Complete the s-fold should be easier. Overlaping the 'ears' tends to lock the cocoon and prevent the canopy from sliding/ slipping. Continue maintaining control and bag it. No psycho-rolling flipping stuff.

I've used this technique on many brand new canopies and they go in the bag on the first shot everytime.

I was making an origami unicorn one day at work and realized I could do a similar thing packing new z-p parachutes.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[riggerrob 558]

I was making an origami unicorn one day at work and realized I could do a similar thing packing new z-p parachutes.

Somebody has way too much spare time on their hands.

Seriously, you might want to try Philipp Ludwig's method for bagging canopies.
Start by PRO packing the canopy. When you lay it on the floor, immediately place both knees about 1/4 of the way up the canopy (near the top of the orange warning label. This anchors the canopy to the floor and limits the amount of air that can sneak back in.
You still have a grip on the rolled trailing edge? Right? Good! Lift the top half of the canopy and press it against your belly.
Slide the grommeted lip of the d-bag under the canopy and your knees, so the bag is resting on the floor and your knees are on top of the canopy. Clamp the d-bag and canopy to the floor with your knees.
Grab the canopy half way up and shove it into the top of the bag. Fill the top corners as best you can.
Cram the top 1/4 of the canopy into the bag. Now is a good time to cock the pilotchute.
Only now can you lift your knees.
Rotate the bag so it rests on the floor, bridle down. Use your knees to block it in place.
Grab the bottom edge of the canopy and shove it into the middle of the d-bag.
Stow some lines in the first rubber band.
The beauty of this method is that your knees clamp the canopy, preventing it from squirting out of control.