gus 1 #1 December 2, 2002 Ok, this has been bugging me for a while and I really want to understand the gear I'm jumping so here goes..... Can someone give me a detailed description of why a collapsable pc collapses? The kill-line runs from the apex of the pc, down through the bridle and attaches at the dbag, right? It seems like all the forces at work are trying to keep the thing open so what draws the kill-line in and collapses the pc??? If I'm just being dumb feel free to tell me! GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #2 December 2, 2002 The bag with the bridle are traveling away from the canopy. Think about the snatch force when the canopy is at line stretch, the canopy is pulled away from the bag. There is a line connecting the bag to the canopy that stops the bag from going even further towards the pc. René Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonic 0 #3 December 2, 2002 Next time you're packing (before you bag it), cock your pc, and ask someone to pull it away from the canopy, and watch what happens----------------------------------- It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #4 December 2, 2002 the line in the middle of pilot chute is conected to the canopy, while the border of pilot chute is conected to the bag. when you deploy, pilot chute pulls the canopy (with the line inside the bridle) and the bag (with the border of p/c via bridle). But until the bag is locked, the canopy stays inside the bag. when the lines are streched - bag is unlocked, the border of the pilot chute, pulls the bag of of the canopy and at the same time as the canopy is getting out of the bag, the pilot chute colapses. and when the canopy is out of the bag (still sniveling) the pilot chute is already colapsed."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 December 2, 2002 Gus, you are thinking about this the wrong way. "The kill-line runs from the apex of the pc, down through the bridle and attaches at the dbag, right?" No, the kill line (along with the 'security' line)attaches to the canopy, the bridle attaches to the d-bag. Attached to the bridle is the PC 'skirt'. During deployment, whilst the canopy is in the bag the bridle takes all the load, transferred via the suspension lines, risers, and the harness. Once the canopy is out of the bag, the drag force causes the PC to 'invert' by pulling the PC skirt and bridle 'up the kill line'. So the kill line doesn't actually withdraw anything, the moving parts are the bridle and bag sliding up the kill line, being pulled by the drag on the PC and skirt.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #6 December 2, 2002 Alright thanks everyone, I think I get it now. I will take Sonic's advice and watch the sequence on the ground to see exactly what's happening. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ducky 0 #7 December 3, 2002 Damn, I think I am more confused than I was before I read this threadSome things are not easily exlained via computer. kwak Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #8 December 4, 2002 Och mannie, it must be my strange accent..But ye cannae change the laws o' physics! Think about an umbrella inverting in a strong wind.. The kill line is the handle, the bridle is the wee slider thing that the spokes attach to.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #9 December 4, 2002 I believe this is correct, but wait for somebody smarter than me to confirm or fix it before taking it as such. In the attachment the green arrows show which way the force (resistance) is directed by the PC. The PC won't collapse until the canopy leaves the bag because the bridle and bag are essentially one piece so far as if one moves then the other will too. So when the canopy comes out of the bag, the PC keeps applying the force in the direction of the green arrows, but the bridle/d-bag combo is now free to move so the PC pulls it upwards (away from the canopy) Forgive my horrible drawing -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #10 December 4, 2002 >Forgive my horrible drawing Playing with Paint again? Actually Pete is correct. the bag bridle attaches to the canopy also to prevent the bag from traveling up the bridle/kill line also. The beauty of a kill line PC is even if the kill line breaks the system will still work, just not collapse. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #11 December 4, 2002 Quote >Forgive my horrible drawing Playing with Paint again? Yeah, I'm not very artistic at all... Quote Actually Pete is correct. the bag bridle attaches to the canopy also to prevent the bag from traveling up the bridle/kill line also. The beauty of a kill line PC is even if the kill line breaks the system will still work, just not collapse. Thanks for adding that -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #12 February 5, 2003 Found this drawing, and thought it might be appropriate to post here... There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #13 February 5, 2003 man that picture is an essay all by itself. You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #14 February 6, 2003 That's the instruction sheet that comes with the Kazer pilot chutes. Note that there are some designs in which the kill line is enclosed by bridle all the way to the canopy attachment. When cocked, the portion of bridle inside the dbag is bunched up. One advantage of this design is that it can be safely cocked when the canopy is already in the bag. With the exposed kill line, cocking when the canopy is in the dbag can cause the kill line and safety or retainer line to grab a bunch of fabric and cause either friction burns or outright rips. One disadvantage of the enclosed kill line is that the tension on the bunched-up bridle can tend to de-cock the assembly a little. Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
