diveout 0 #26 July 28, 2004 heavier than on a vx (the fronts are way lighter)-same with the 27cell xaos. the rears are fairly similar to a velocity, very powerful and responsive. I think the input pressure on the xoas line of canopies is ideal for competition swooping-especially rears. The vx is so light that stalling the canopy is much easer- the xaos will shout "hey go to toggles stupid!" before it stalls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #27 July 28, 2004 On the 27 cell? Not heavy at all IMO lighter than a V-Lo. On the 21? I don't remember....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diveout 0 #28 July 28, 2004 rears on a 27 cell I don't remember, on a 21-similar. Not "heavy" buy absolutely heavier than a VX xaos 21-125 is my current canopy and I demo'd a velo 120 this weekend for about 5 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #29 July 28, 2004 I personally like heavier rear riser pressure. It makes it tougher to distort and/or stall the canopy. You can feel the canopy "warning" you of a stall a bit more, if that makes any sense. I think the Katana had just the right amount. You can tug pretty hard to have it just trim out, and then hold it for a long time without descending, making the early-transition-before-rear-riser-power-loss thing a little easier. Also on that note, I found that I didn't really have to transition from rears to half brakes (even with the brakes lines let out just right) like I did on my Sabre2. I don't know how this compares to the various X-braces. It was more like just letting go of the risers and putting hands out about a foot or so, and then go into the flare. The control range on toggles starts pretty high."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #30 July 28, 2004 ***The control range on toggles starts pretty high. ------------------------------------------------------- My impression was the opposite. Although, I only have four or five jumps on a 107. Anyone else? Comments? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #31 July 28, 2004 Quote***The control range on toggles starts pretty high. ------------------------------------------------------- My impression was the opposite. Although, I only have four or five jumps on a 107. Anyone else? Comments?I guess it's all perspective. Again, I can't compare to X-braces. Compared the XF2, XF, Sabre2, and... a Fox 245 ... it starts higher up. You very likely have a wider array of canopies flown."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #32 July 29, 2004 So, I went back to the PD web site to the list of quotes to see if I better understand their marketing now, and why it didn't have me convinced before: http://www.performancedesigns.com/katana.asp The thing is that they don't give much of a pitch. Every quote on there is very true, and is how I would describe this canopy, but across the board, it's compared to a Stilleto and a Velocity. It comes across as, "If you currently fly a Stilleto and you want to fly a Velocity, use this as a stepping stone." This canopy deserves a LOT more credit than that. And for those who don't fly Stilettos, the comparisons don't mean much. IMO, the comparisons are detrimental. Not everyone who'd like this canopy has experience on a Stiletto. Some of the really great truths found in the quotes are overshadowed by the comparison. We hear about the how easy the dive is to control and maintain, but we forget that, because we're trying to imagine what a Stilleto dives like. Also, there's a lot of difference in the dive of a Stilleto and a Velo. If anything, the dive is probably closer to a Velo -- a Stilleto pilot would be very surprised to find out what their usual front riser turn does on a Katana. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the marketing for the Katana has been very understated. We see pictures of clouds, a logo, and a few snippets of text that don't really convey anything. There was a lot of hype, but I never learned anything about the canopy until I spoke with Vladi about it for awhile, and then flew one. Keeping with the Japanese theme, I've written a haiku that, I believe would be a better bit of marketing than what they've had in the past: Quote dives like a mofo, fast and responsive in flight, the katana rocks. On a side note, I knew this canopy had a wide aspect ratio, but didn't realize that it's the widest that PD makes -- 2.74:1."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hkf 0 #33 July 30, 2004 QuoteI've written a haiku that, I believe would be a better bit of marketing than what they've had in the past: I wrote a song, posted it in the bonfire a while ago, but here it is, it's a re-write of Hakunamatata from the Lion King; Hookin the katana what a wonderful phrase Hookin the katana aint no passing craze it means long swoops for the rest of your days it's a crossbrace free Velocity Hookin the katana..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Segador 0 #34 July 30, 2004 Quote I'm not sure about the Katana, but my XF2 can be really floaty and make it back from long spots with the rears quite nicely. I make it back from spots on my Crossfire2, 97 loaded at 2.0 that others can't come close to. It helps that I pull higher as well. But the glide is amazing on the xf2. I've got over 300 jumps on mine now. I LOOOVE it... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #35 August 2, 2004 Nice review, I jumped the 120 a couple of times at Lost Prarie this last weekend and the openings were outstanding. A very nice canopy indeed! Even with no wind, 3500' and warm it landed nice. Started with a 90 then up to 270 and it did as advertised, swooped nicely for both approaches.. Good fun will be had by MB on the 97! Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #36 August 2, 2004 That's just brilliant.... pure poetry Glad you are enjoying your canopy, I have one too now, and just love it Blooos! Kolla Kolbeinsdottir Performance Designs, Inc.Blue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hkf 0 #37 August 2, 2004 QuoteGlad you are enjoying your canopy, Really enjoying it, have had a bit of wierdness with it latley. It occasionally snatches the front riser back from me, when it did it this weekend somebody on the ground said they heard it make a loud cracking noise. I hurt my shoulder a while ago and went back to a larger sabre till my shoulder got better. I'm thinking that becouse the riser pressure on the sabre is so much greater than the katana that I may now be inadvertantley pulling to far down on the front riser and the canopy is biting back! Any thoughts on this would be greatley appreciated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #38 August 2, 2004 Woohoo! My KA 97 just arrived. hkf, I've had that same phenomenom occur several times, but it's been when I'm doing a slow carving turn in funky turbulence. Same deal -- riser damn near pops out of my hand and a "crack" can be heard (and the canopy planes out pretty quickly thereafter). But... this sounds like a different cause."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hkf 0 #39 August 2, 2004 Think it's the same. Saturday was the first time it did it in the turn (which was a slow carvy one), normally when it does it, it's becouse I've turned high and gone on to double fronts. Thought I may have been using to much double fronts becouse of the relativley light riser pressure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #40 August 2, 2004 Oh, I should have also mentioned that this phenomenon has occured for me on different canopies, but same turn/conditions. I think it's less the canopy's fault, and more turn/conditions'. That's just my theory, though."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hkf 0 #41 August 2, 2004 Yep, I'm sure it's not a fault of the canopy, more turn type and conditions. Gonna do a few high hop n pops and have a good play with it and try to figure out how and why it happens! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #42 August 3, 2004 yeah, i've experienced that. And i was talking to someone else in perris who's also experienced that on a Katana... For me, it hasn't felt like instability or wanting to collapse. It feels like a wave of energy through the canopy while it's in a dive fight to get it back to normal flight... it's happened to me a handful of times, with a little double front input to dive a high turn a little more. When it has happened, I've let up on everything to return to normal flight and just land uneventfully. My openings have also gotten whippy. I think my steering lines have shrunk which could be part of the problem, but I'm also going to show PD in Rantoul to see what they think. I'm jealous of others who say their Katana opens beautifully though, wondering if I got mine too early. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #43 August 3, 2004 QuoteI think my steering lines have shrunk which could be part of the problem Why they don't build a high performance canopy with Vectran lines is a mystery to me. They, in this case, means pretty much everyone. I just don't understand the need (or want) to build a real high performance canopy with Spectra anymore. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #44 August 3, 2004 QuoteI just don't understand the need (or want) to build a real high performance canopy with Spectra anymore. i don't either, but they line set will last longer, so i would imagine that is why. steve blinko (sp??), the dude who freefly coaches in lake wales has spectra on his vx, or he did this past winter anyway. it didn't make much sense to me, but he seamed to really like it. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #45 August 3, 2004 Hey Lew! Looking forward to seeing you in Rantoul, but I would suggest that you call our Maintenance Dept here at PD before you go to get their input. We won't be set up to do rigging or detailed inspections at Rantoul so we couldn't help you out much under the tent! Call Donna or Robin (386 738 2224) or e-mail ([email protected], [email protected]) to get the specs and their input on it, they are two excellent ladies! Blue ones, kollaBlue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #46 August 3, 2004 Hey again! I checked with John LeBlanc to get his input. He said that it would be a bit hard to make any solid comments as he doesn't know the exact circumstances, but here are some of his thoughts. ____________________________ "My thoughts are that when going through turbulence at high speed, and you get a downer, the lines go slack and then the canopy races back to the end of the line, just like it should do. It can make a loud pop when it does this. The turbulence could stem from other canopies around or any other source. When you are on a canopy that has light riser pressure, it is easy to over control. When you fly through crappy air, the riser pressure can vary quite a bit. If you fly a "riser pressure" rather than a "riser position", that variance can lead to unwanted riser movements which can make things worse. Flying a "position" rather than a pressure, will help prevent the pilot from inadvertently pulling more riser down when the pressure is momentarily lower. I'm not concerned about it, but I do think jumpers should be realistic about the type of air they fly in with such aggressive maneuvers. They also need to make sure that their riser loops are way high on the risers, and be mindful of proper toggle position". ____________________________ I hope that helps! Blue ones, KollaBlue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #47 August 3, 2004 QuoteIf you fly a "riser pressure" rather than a "riser position", that variance can lead to unwanted riser movements which can make things worse. Flying a "position" rather than a pressure, will help prevent the pilot from inadvertently pulling more riser down when the pressure is momentarily lower.This is dead on. When I've had this happen, I've basically just committed my arm to one spot -- there'd still be funky turbulence, but it wasn't throwing my arm around. I couldn't find a good way to describe it. I think John LeBlanc totally nailed the problem and offered the solution with this comment. Imagine that. I found some POV video of this last night. I'll post it as soon as I rip it. Basically, my hand stays in one spot, and the front riser is going taught-slack-taught-slack-taught... but the swoop stays smooth and continuous the whole way through. BTW, this thread should be like three different threads at this point. I'll post the video in a new thread, or maybe this one should be broken off starting at this post."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #48 August 4, 2004 Quotei don't either, but they line set will last longer, so i would imagine that is why. Last longer? When does a spectra line set go bad? When it starts to effect open and flight (many people ive talked to recently said about 200 jumps), or when you just cant stand it anymore? Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #49 August 4, 2004 When lines start breaking. <-- THIS WINK MEANS I'M KIDDING! I'm interested in seeing how this 650 microline fares. I assume it will start to "distort" just like any other Spectra, but for the moment, I just think the thinness is cool. I wonder if I can have it relined with HMA when this Spectra starts to wear. hhhhHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm........aaaaaaAAAAAAaaa"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xheadrasta 0 #50 August 5, 2004 Manbird and hkf, The problem you have described is not just related to the Katana! I have a Crossfire2 119 @ 1.9 that will do the same thing. My biggest tip to you would be for sure to check the tail deflection when your pulling front riser. I had my Crossfire2 set at factory settings when I first got it and it was about 2inches too short. I lengthened them up and viola the buffeting and nose "roll under" went away. I still can make it do it but I choose not to. Like it was said in previous posts...It is the position of the riser not pressure that you need to look at. Hope this helps. Scott ps. Lew...we miss you!!I read somewhere to learn is to remember and I've learned we all forgot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
