BrianSGermain 1 #1 April 1, 2004 So often I have people roll their eyes at me when I recommend that they stay with a larger canopy for the time being. Here is why I recommend this. We recommend staying with a lower wing-loading because it makes us feel superior, and we like looking down on lower-time jumpers. We worry that low-time jumpers, with their fresh perspective, will show us old-timers up. We just want to hold you back. Not really. Airspeed requires the responses of our "Learned Instincts". These are our unconscious responses, developed over time, that allow us to survive unnatural situations such as skydiving. If the "Innate Instincts" were enough to get us through such situations, we would not need any student training at all. You see, the problem does not occur until something is wrong or different from what we have planned. When that happens, the stress-response of our bodies shuts off our neo-cortical higher brain functions such as complex decision-making and long-term memory access. Therefore we do not have access to the newer ideas that we have acquired in the classroom, or in a few hundred jumps of experiences. Unprepared in our "Instincts" we apply inappropriate survival mechanisms such as freezing, and it kills us. Freezing is a very old process, built into our deep memory. Appropriate for situations involving the need to avoid a predator, such responses lead us to disaster in situations requiring involved decisions and complex behavior patterns. We can only hope to survive such situations by slowing down the music for a while, until these new behavior patterns can take root in the deeper realms of our consciousness'. So, if you choose to race down through the wing-loading charts faster than the experienced jumpers recommend, you are much more likely to meet a premature end of your skydiving career, and perhaps your life. The trouble is, many of us have come to the skydiving world with the unspoken acceptance that we have the "Right Stuff". We believe that, due to our performance in other situations, we can handle whatever circumstances are presented to us. The truth is, when the adrenalin surges, we are no longer that person. Our self-definition as a "competent survivor" is not accessible in the flow of the moment because we are simply not there. There is no time to be this person. There is only time for instincts. If the learned instincts are inappropriate, we will make the wrong choices, or no choices at all. I know this because I was you. I wanted a smaller parachute because I believe in ME. That concept is admirable and helpful in some circles, but not here. Restraint and Judgment are the most important survival skills of all. For these, we will be respected. With these, we will have a fighting chance of one day becoming great skydivers. Sincerely, Brian Germain Author The Parachute and its PilotInstructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #2 April 1, 2004 Nice post Brian. I'll be putting the check in the mail this week for that book! Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #3 April 1, 2004 Very Nice!I totally agree!Hope to get my book soon also?It is very hard to explain to an up and coming jumper that you "Should" really learn to go after this sport 89.96%!What about the rest you say?The rest is "What If's" and "Nobody is that good that they can't make a mistake".Brian puts in a more complex way for me.This way keeps me from "Going Beyond My Limits"TY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #4 April 1, 2004 very nicely said. I tend to take my students outside when jumpers are coming down and show them why turning low can be deadly and that the canopy is something you should respect. They tend to understand more and respect the canopy after the understand what it's really capible of<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygoddess 0 #5 April 1, 2004 QuoteI tend to take my students outside when jumpers are coming down and show them why turning low can be deadly and that the canopy is something you should respect. Good for you! I wish that all instructors would do this. I remember when I was a student, I was told just to go out and watch them come in. No one explained to my that they didn't flare all the way, because of their canopy, in fact no one really explained to me the differnt types of canopies and what their pluses and negatives are. Shit I am figuring it out for the most part on my own, and I still find things confusing, like my Sabre is way differnt than the Sabre2 I know that, but why? And what about that Fusion I demoed? I loved that canopy, but it is suppose to be just like a Sabre2, but I noticed a big difference myself flying them...maybe it was the lines, because they were different, or maybe just the fact that they are infact made differntly...What about a Cobalt and a Stiletto? And a Vengance? Or a Xaos 21 and 27, yeah I know one has 21 cells and the oter has 27, but why does that make a difference.... Maybe I should go around looking for a real canopy class...not just how to fly one. Like a canopy engineering class or something... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #6 April 2, 2004 QuoteMaybe I should go around looking for a real canopy class...not just how to fly one. Like a canopy engineering class or something... After I landed out on jump #12 and banged up my shoulder I began my canopy obsession. I read PD's and Icarus' websites top to bottom. I tried to learn everything about every canopy. I felt an overwhelming need to, no matter how much my GF yelled at me for staring at the computer. Read, read and read some more. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygoddess 0 #7 April 2, 2004 yeah but do they do tend to be a bit biased on their canopy...I want some real life info. Do they have anything in the SIM about the differences of the canopies? What changes in the canopy with this wing loading versus that canopy with the sme wing loading. Basically, I am looking for why this happens and not so much why this canopy is better. Like why does the air stay inside a cross-braced and wht difference is a cross-braced vs an air lock? Why is the air locked said to be somewhat safer? Why is an eliptical canopy more dangerous than one that isn't? I know it is aand that it dives faster, but why? Why? I feel like my two year old.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #8 April 2, 2004 I hate to sound like Big Air/Brian's personal cheerleader today, but my advice is to order a copy of his book The Parachute and its Pilot. I am pretty sure you'll learn everything you'd ever want to know about canopy flight/design and then about a ton more including mental aspects of the stuff we do. There's a thread somewhere around here about the book, or just pm him for more info. I think you can get one for free if you attend one of his seminars. While you are waiting on your copy of the book, I suggest priming your mind by reading the Big Air owner's manual. Trust me, it's not just for owners of the lotus and the samurai, although, it might make ya think about airlocks... cya! mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #9 April 2, 2004 Yeah, I was like you, too Here are a few. Elliptical is not/does not mean dangerous. Making a canopy elliptical can make it more efficient and usually makes it turn faster. The shape doesnt necessarily make it dive faster/more. Some ellipticals can dive less than a square. Wing loading is the biggest factor in the flight of the canopy. Cross bracing is a way of keeping a canopy in the shape it was built to be so when it is loaded highly (like 2.0:1 and over) it flies properly. Regular canopies (7 and 9 cells) have a point at which wing loading makes them fly less efficiently Airlocks are only a device to keep the air inside a canopy in the event of a collapse (ie turbulence and very deep braked slow flight) They are not meant to increase the performance of the canopy. Sorry if Im rambling, I like this stuff. Anyway, if you havent, read the seminars by John LeBlanc on the PD site. Ask on the dz why people fly their canopies and watch how canopies fly. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #10 April 2, 2004 QuoteWe recommend staying with a lower wing-loading because it makes us feel superior, and we like looking down on lower-time jumpers. We worry that low-time jumpers, with their fresh perspective, will show us old-timers up. We just want to hold you back. that's the funniest shit i think i've ever read. btw good info later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #11 April 2, 2004 I have doing my best to offer a "real canopy class". I have a list of the courses already on the schedule on the Big Air site. No product plugs, just the facts. If you are interested in getting me to come to your DZ, please PM me. I would love to come. Teaching these courses is my favorite thing in the world. BriInstructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #12 April 2, 2004 QuoteMaybe I should go around looking for a real canopy class...not just how to fly one. Have you taken any post-AFF canopy control course? I did Scott Miller's course recently and learned more in one day about how and why a canopy flies than I had in 13 years of jumping. Scott was very happy to discuss whatever aspects of canopy flight and design that we asked about. He was very upfront about most of his jumps being on PD canopies but he did not "diss" any other manufacturer nor did he say that his views and methods are the only correct ones. I only have him and the course I took to go by, but I'd like to think that any of the people offering canopy control training would do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkdice 0 #13 April 2, 2004 QuoteTeaching these courses is my favorite thing in the world. And it shows! You made a great impression at our DZ a few weeks ago. Freeflygodess~ Taking Brian's course a few weeks ago was the best things I could have done to help me understand my canopy (and canopies in general) better. It helped me feel much more comfortable and confident under canopy. I can't say enough good things about this course and they way Brian relates information to his students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #14 April 2, 2004 QuoteWing loading is the biggest factor in the flight of the canopy. Wind loading affects the speed and dive on the canopy where the size affects the responsiveness. A 170 loaded at 2.0 will fly very differently than a 90 loaded at 2.0 There's definitely more to the way a canopy flies than wing loading.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 April 2, 2004 Quote Brian Germain Author The Parachute and its Pilot Brian: Where can we buy your book? Are any retailers carrying it? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #16 April 2, 2004 Rather than advertizing on the forum, anyone interested in the book can PM me for more info on how to get one. BrianInstructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygoddess 0 #17 April 2, 2004 I actually am going to be taking on of Jim Slaton's courses out here in Perris, after the 15th, that is going to be my birthday present to myself. I will let you all know how that goes. Kathryn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #18 April 2, 2004 I have been to his school,and found it to be very helpfull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #19 April 2, 2004 skybytch wrote: Quote I did Scott Miller's course recently and learned more in one day about how and why a canopy flies than I had in 13 years of jumping. >> I also took the essential skills course with Scott Miller at about 30 jumps and learned some important stuff that I really needed to know at that time. I think the stuff I learned in that class is basically the stuff that everyone should be learning in their AFF programs! But, unfortunately, that is not the case:( QuoteQuoteTeaching these courses is my favorite thing in the world. And it shows! You made a great impression at our DZ a few weeks ago. Freeflygodess~ Taking Brian's course a few weeks ago was the best things I could have done to help me understand my canopy (and canopies in general) better. It helped me feel much more comfortable and confident under canopy. I can't say enough good things about this course and they way Brian relates information to his students. >>> ditto! Brian is an excellent teacher! I spent a day with Brian at about 120 jumps and I learned WAY more than I could have hoped for. I am going to be attending one of Brian's camps here soon, and I can't wait! He has so much knowledge to share and I just want to be a sponge that gets to soak it all up! I think any canopy course is a good canopy course. Of course, I think if you get the chance to spend time with Brian, you'll get WAY more than your money's worth! jm.02$ Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #20 April 3, 2004 QuoteWind loading affects the speed and dive on the canopy where the size affects the responsiveness. Of course size makes a difference, but wingloading is the bigGEST factor in the flight of the canopy. A 170 at 2.0 is more responsive than a 170 at 1.0. QuoteThere's definitely more to the way a canopy flies than wing loading. Again, of course there is, but wingloading is the most prevelant. Most jumpers wont fly 2 different size wings at the same loading, so its all relative to each jumper. Wingloading is the most commonly abused trait of canopies today, especially by newer jumpers. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
