What type of altimeter do you use for swooping?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Curious what most of the swoopers on here are using to judge when to start their dive. Digital?

I am considering an alti-2 neptune.

thx!
Angela

[ivanrockon 0]

Neptune here! Just a quick glance before starting my carve swoop.

Ivan "Rock On"

[Infensus 0]

(I: Stiletto 120 @ W/L of 1.65 doing 270 deg. carving turns)
Eye, using objects of known size for reference. I don't trust my alti (Eureka: analog) nearly enough.
I'm not saying my eye is more exact than a good alti, but when you use the eye you constantly evaluate your distance to the ground, and if you were to start too low, you see it early and can abort the dive (going to toggles and landing in the intended direction).
I would *NEVER* recommend anyone to use their altimeter wrt. landings.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Eyes first here, then Neptune for quick confirmation (eyes can be deceptive when terrain and lighting changes).

Remember that the alti is a guide only. Density altitude, amongst other things, changes that alt all the time.

You've expressed an interest in swooping in the past so I'd highly recommend going to flight 1 (or an advanced canopy skills workshop) so that you can get the best guidence for what you are about to start learning. I wish they were around when I started, I'm sure I'd not have a lot of the bad habits I am now still trying to break.

Be safe. Remember its hard to take it slow because of enthusiam. Just try and keep that enthusiam in check and try to progress at a reasonable pace and I'm sure you'll be a kick ass pilot one day.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[diablopilot 2]

Here we go again.....


Nuthin as I think it should be.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Quote

Be safe. Remember its hard to take it slow because of enthusiam. Just try and keep that enthusiam in check and try to progress at a reasonable pace and I'm sure you'll be a kick ass pilot one day.

Of course.

I don't want to get this thread off topic. I am just curious about who's using what. As i'm sure you're aware, I try not to post specifics about me or my progression on here because of past issues with people freaking out. But, as an fyi, I am getting excellent coaching from the best!

Keep voting:) thx!
Angela.

[PhreeZone 15]

Eyes... and here is why: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=835534#835534

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[hookitt 0]

Up until this season, I didn't look at my altimeter at all for judging my hook turn starting point.

I still don't really look at it for judgement but I do tend to look at it around 1000 feet to confirm what I see entering the final approach pattern. Then again just before I get ready to begin the hook turn I look again to see what altitude I'm at. I've been doing that in attempt to be more consistant.

So far it's proved mildly helpful. But as for judgement of altitude I use it only for verification.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[AggieDave 6]

I use my eyes. I do glance at my alti to make sure that I'm not way higher then I think I am, but that's all done while I'm setting up to get to the spot I want to toss my hook.

Its all in the eyes, Alti's lie.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ianmdrennan 2]

Sorry Phree, I don't want to sidetrack this post, but thats like blaming a cypress for a fire because someone set it incorrectly. I don't think analog alti's are a good idea because their range is so wide and at a glance it's easy to misread 200 feet, but I can't blame an alti either if someone didn't calibrate it correctly.

Also, just like anything, it's a guide, not an absolute. You have to know the conditions for the day as well as how your canopy responds to them for an alti to be of any good anyway...same goes for the eyes though.

Anywhoo for the sake of the thread, if anyone disagrees please PM me so we can keep this thread clean.

Thanks,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[frankiebrina 0]

I use both my wrist watch and my eyes.

[NeedToJump 0]

I glance at my alti as I'm setting up my approach, but once I turn onto my final leg I only use my eyes for judging when to start my turn. Every now and then if I'll glance at my alti just before starting my turn to get a rough idea of what the altitude is but I never rely on it. If my eyes tell me it's time to go then I do. If my eyes tell me I'm too low but my alti says I'm at 1000 feet then I don't swoop.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[hookitt 0]

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Here we go again.....
.

Why do you always say that??

There's nuthin wrong with confirming altitude with altimeters.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[diablopilot 2]

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There's nuthin wrong with confirming altitude with altimeters.

True, for those who have enough focus to use it as a brief reference and are already experienced in "reading" the situation without.

I see way too many newer jumpers setting up and then focusing on nothing but their altimeter until it tells them they are at the appropriate altitude. I nearly spat on the topskin of one such jumpers canopy as he flew right infront of me the other day. He didn't even know we were close.

What happens when the altimeter fails, but the user has *always* used it for a reference? It sticks a few hundred feet high, and the jumper doesn't realize it.

I saw the results of a botched hookturn happen this weekend again. Still can't get used to it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[hookitt 0]

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...True, for those who have enough focus to use it as a brief reference and are already experienced in "reading" the situation without.

Exactly. I asked so you'd clarify. Thanks Brutha.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[diablopilot 2]

I knew you would....


I miss the Nor Cal.....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I really like what Ian is saying here:

"Also, just like anything, it's a guide, not an absolute. You have to know the conditions for the day as well as how your canopy responds to them for an alti to be of any good anyway...same goes for the eyes though. "

I used to just use my eyes only, then as of late I have been using my alti after using my eyes. I tend to use the eyes and scan every direction for traffic or other problems then I commit to the turn by checking my airspace again, the alti, procede with the turn and then use my eyes to judge how much faster or slower I need to bring the turn around to achieve the proper entry point and altitude for my swoop. That's all I have to say about that.

[aerialcameraman 0]

Your alti is a second to your eyes and knowing how to judge height and when to start you carve or hook. Maybe a quick glance but I would recomend what everybody else always tells you start with practice way up high and then when you get more effecient then work down thats how i learned. I may glance at my alti but thats it,i judge distance fro buildings and other landmarks. Stay safe and ask for advise from your local DZ or take a course.

[Miami 0]

I solely use my eyes. I do check my alt on occasion before I start a hook, but it is really just a reference for afterward. The alt I start my hook varies on each jump. If there is traffic, coming back from a not so great spot, or things just don't feel right the alt I hook can vary quite a bit.

It is not really the alt you start your hook at that but the alt that you get off the risers and start to let your canopy plane out that is ultimately important. On occasions where all of the conditions are optimal I usually start my hook at about 1200 feet. After doing a 180-270 front riser turn in one direction I alternate to the other front riser for another 180-270. This is where the eyes really come in. I stay aware of how fast I am descending, what direction I am likely to be facing, and when the most opportune time to release the front risers is. If I am lower, I do less of a turn in either direction, or maybe only do one front riser turn instead of alternating turns. But I stay aware of this with my eyes and my eyes alone. Things are happening way too fast to look away to check my altimeter.

It really kills me to watch other jumpers start a hook too low because they are obviously concentrating on something else, be it alt, getting hands in dive loops, whatever.

Your eyes should not fail you, you use them every day, you should be used to what they are telling you. If you are in a situation where they might deceive you then you should wait to swoop another day. If you rely on an altimeter to tell you when to hook you will not know it has failed until it is too late.

Hope this helps...

Miami

[twnsnd 1]

I wish you would have given the choice of alti plus visual reference. I believe that would be the most popular.

-We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.-

[BrianSGermain 1]

My experience is that the confirmation of a properly calibrated altimeter can provide the confidence to really get the canopy diving.

The type is not all that important, and long as it is in a location that allows you to keep your eyes on the changing environment. That's why I love my Alti II chest mount.

When you are initiating the turn at a high altitude, it is very difficult to be consisent with the height of your initiation. The trap that often befalls swoopers is the profound trust they have in their visual accuity.

Most folks don't even know their altitude of initiation, just the visual experience of it, which changes with the wind conditions. If you make a long radius, high initiation turn for landing, the altimeter can be the difference between going big and merely eeking the turn around because you are underconfident with the altitude of initiation.

Once you have initiated the dive, however, the eyes are your only hope. The visual experience of the "Destination Point" is your most valuable feedback data once the dive is initiated. Flying your canopy to a shallow, powerful entry angle is a function of making your sight picture match your mental model of the perfect approach for that particular wind condition.

Can you imagine an airplane pilot entering the pattern on visual data alone? Wholly ego, batman! It just isn't done, because instruments create a more consistent result that human senses. It is time to begin thinking of ourselves as pilots, and let go of the old ideas made solid by too many years of "parachute flight" rather than "flight".

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[diablopilot 2]

Excellent explanation!

The problem I have is with people "learning" by altimeter alone.

Oh and there are a bunch of pilots that don't use an altimeter to set up for landings.

They fly ultralites!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BrianSGermain 1]

I used to be one of them. I have been doing high speed approaches since 1987, and have had to adapt my techniques to the newer canopies. Since they allow for a much higher initiation altitude, I didn't find my consistency until I began setting up using instruments.
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Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[freakydiver 0]

My eyes. Talk about digital throughput.

Edit - I used to double check my eyes against my alti alot - a shitty old alti II - but the more I've jumped and gotten my eyes used to alti's at my home DZs, the less I use my alti. The eyes IMHO are the best alti out there hands down. I don't do anything near what a Germain or other high end canopy pilots do, usually only long smooth carvers never more than 180. I'd imagine with some of the fast as shit pocket rockets, one may want TWO altis to check against to really drill down entry altitudes....

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Supergeil 0]

You said it your self....that was a low TURN! not a hook.