ianmdrennan 2 #1 July 9, 2003 Buddy of mine (GaryHarbird) had to chop his velo 84 after a break fire. Those who're interested in seeing him getting thrown around like a rag doll - check out ftp.skydivingmovies.com and look under cutaways for Gary_cutaway_84_velocity. Enjoy. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivegirl 0 #2 July 9, 2003 clickyPink Mafia Sis #26 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #3 July 9, 2003 a ride like that will get your heart pumping! JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #4 July 9, 2003 Any reason way he did't steer the opening,I jump a 96 velo as a back up rig and I steer most of my openings? Just wondering? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #5 July 9, 2003 QuoteBuddy of mine (GaryHarbird) had to chop his velo 84 after a break fire. so uh, why didn't he release the other brake? later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #6 July 9, 2003 He was steering the opening and an 84 will wind up on you faster than you can imagine with a brake out. Problem is that he didn't notice that the brake had fired until it spun up on him, by that time (Kelly The whole ordeal (pretty short too) ate up about 1500 feet. Not sure about you folks but I'd not screw around with that low to the ground - I'd rather use the reserve. Me, well I'm ahppy he's ok and I get to laugh at him getting slapped around Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #7 July 9, 2003 Whether or not I knew it was a brake fire, the first thing I would have done was to reach up and grab both toggles and unstow them in hopes that it WAS a brake fire and nothing more. That is basic first jump course shit. The only time that I cannot accomplish that in a timely enough manner is a mad spinner in a wingsuit. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #8 July 9, 2003 Did any of you actually watch the video? Unless the brake fire was spotted immediately (which it wasn't) do you really think that was a salvagable situation? Easy to be armchair critics when you weren't there.....unfortunately I notice this trend way too often when it comes to reserve rides. They're there for a reason, why it's always such an ordeal when somebody uses them is beyond me. Either way it was posted for your visual enjoyment...take it as that. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #9 July 9, 2003 QuoteDid any of you actually watch the video? ya i did. and pip rivers (sp?? freefly coach at zhills) was up doing an aff pre coarse at my dz about a month ago, and he words are, you didn't even try if the brakes are still stowed. hell, dude has like 13,000 jumps, and no cut aways on a sport rig. now, do i think gary should of cut away, ya, it didn't look like he was too high, that's why i'm always trying to be sitting in the saddle at 3k. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #10 July 9, 2003 I've had two spinners that were related to an unstowed break and I did exactly what SkymonkeyOne mentioned (go for both breaks) and I resolved my problems. But I did watch the video and shit, things happened real fast to your buddy there. If I was in his shoes (which I'm not because I don't fly the same sort of high performance canopy), I likely would have been looking to chop that sucker. In my books, he ultimately did the right thing. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #11 July 9, 2003 looks like he handled it well. When in doubt, chop. Thats what I've always been told, by multiple people. Don't waste your last moments trying to figure out why your canopy is screwing up. Thanks for posting the video, it was entertaining. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #12 July 9, 2003 QuoteDid any of you actually watch the video? Unless the brake fire was spotted immediately (which it wasn't) do you really think that was a salvagable situation? Easy to be armchair critics when you weren't there.....unfortunately I notice this trend way too often when it comes to reserve rides. They're there for a reason, why it's always such an ordeal when somebody uses them is beyond me. I'm not saying that he did wrong... But just as a person that flys HP canopys I allways have my hands on the rear riser just in case it wants to spin me up(witch has happen to me) and steer my openings. Just mt 2 1/2 cents! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #13 July 9, 2003 QuoteProblem is that he didn't notice that the brake had fired until it spun up on him, by that time (Kelly ) the twisties had him pretty good and releasing the other brake probably wouldn't have done anything beacuse of being help fast by the twisties The video did not look nearly as bad as I expected, although I will admit I have brake fires? quite often . It does not look to me like that canopy is "spun up" that bad at all, in fact I can clearly see that there are no twist in the lines . At the point of the canopy being released I am having a hard time identifying how much the risers are twisted. I believe it is likely that releasing the other brake line would have fixed the problem; however like you pointed out, I was not there. As Chuck pointed out a review of malfuntions and emergency procedures could not hurt. I mean no disrespect to your friend. However, if I had cut away from every brake fire in which the slider was down and there were no twists in the lines....I don't know Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites garyharbird 0 #14 July 9, 2003 Hey guys Well since it was me who had the chop i will tell you my version. Rolled over from a tandem video and throw out at about 3500, canopy started to open and the went to the left, the spin started and the g's stopped me from being able to get my arm up to the toggle, the line twists were under the slider with the risers rapped around my neck pinning my head back. (not to comfortable) So cutaway which took two hands and yes i do have the anti twist housing from javelin, and deployed my reserve. i cutway at 1800 and was sitting under my reserve by 1500 ft. I have had break fires before, but this one just went faster than i could catch it. Gary Harbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Steel 0 #15 July 9, 2003 I am not sure about this because there may be other factors involved. Its just that an 84 which is probably loaded under 2.5 just doesn't sound like you should have to cut it away in this instance to me. In any case on several instances I had premature brake releases on my 70 and every time was able to release the other one and stop the spiral without line twists. However on one instance when this happened on my 62 it spun up violently before I could think about reaching for a brake. Ofcourse I had to cut that one away.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #16 July 9, 2003 Good job Gary and congrats for getting it on video. Looked like you had half a twist on your reserve also. What a ride! That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyguy 0 #17 July 9, 2003 Cool video. It was a good chop as far as I am concerned. He lived. What else do you want? Hah. I used to have that happen quite a bit, until I got rid of my velcroless toggles. I always fixed it without much thinking about it by flying with the opposite rear riser, until I figured out what was going on. It may be to immediatly release the brakes is the better thing to do, but my hands are always at the rears on opening anyway, to steer clear of other canopies immediately, or whatever. Anyway, that's me usual gig. If anybody can tell me why they think that is wrong, go for it. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #18 July 9, 2003 Likewise, on everything but wingsuit jumps my hands are up on the backs of my rear risers. The only pisser about brake fires is that once you clear the other brake and kick out of the spins, you are generally caught with you damn slider above your toggles. Pulling your slider over unstowed toggles on a Velocity 79 is a daunting task at best, especially in traffic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crapflinger2000 1 #19 July 9, 2003 I have about 3-4000 jumps, and NO cutaways... I jump a Vel 90. Given the rapid altitude loss under a highly loaded xbrace under those conditions, the likelyhood for hard cutaways, etc.... chop first, ask questions later. bear in mind that I have kicked out of spinny line twists on my Stilleto many times, and out of plane old twists on my Velocity a couple times, so I do not just "give up" and chop at the drop of a hat... But based on the video, looks like a good decision to me... that thing was fully spun up friggin fast. I think he woulda had to pop the brakes within 2 seconds of opening to catch it fast enough... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #20 July 9, 2003 QuoteThe only pisser about brake fires is that once you clear the other brake and kick out of the spins, you are generally caught with you damn slider above your toggles. Pulling your slider over unstowed toggles on a Velocity 79 is a daunting task at best, especially in traffic. This can be a major inconvenience, especially if you wear motocross gloves. If I release both toggles in this situation, I have a hard enough time getting my fingers through the toggles. I had to land the other day with one toggle through and one on top of the unstowed slider in order to find a place to land. However more times than not, once I steer the canopy in a safe direction I just hold it straight with harness leaving me both hands to guide the slider down through the unstowed toggle, loosen chest ect. I find this fairly easy to do on an FX or Velocity, but requires more harness on the Xaos 27's. The Xaos 27 is not nearly as sensitive to harness input as I would like though. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #21 July 10, 2003 QuoteI've had two spinners that were related to an unstowed break and I did exactly what SkymonkeyOne mentioned (go for both breaks) I've had 3 so far. The first under the Diablo110 that I had. A toggle had come loose. I luckily pulled at 10k and rode it down to 5k before dizzily realizing that a toggle was undone. I was HOSTILE at myself for not catching it quicker. That is the day I set a hard deck for myself under canopy of no lower than 3k for deployment. It didn't take long at all to lose that 5k. Had I not had that experience I don't think I would have automatically responded like SkymonkeyOne said by automatically grabbing both toggles. The last 2 times I got it instantly. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billdo 0 #22 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuotealthough I will admit I have brake fires? quite often . Why do you have break fires so often? Is your gear not properly maintained? Quote Crapflinger wrote: I have about 3-4000 jumps, and NO cutaways... First off, by posting this I think crapflinger has bought himself a reserve ride pretty soon. I mean, knock on wood or something man! Also, does anyone think it's kinda strange that he doesn't know by a factor of 1000 (or 25% of total jumps) how many jumps he has??? Anyway, I'm pretty much just joking around. I've learned a lot about how to handle spinners from this forum and the good advice on it, so I respect everyone's opinion, even Josh's, but still, you guys do come off like you're criticizing the guy for making a half second decision to cut away, but whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #23 July 10, 2003 QuoteWhy do you have break fires so often? Is your gear not properly maintained? No it is not a maintanence issue. Has happened since my risers/toggles were new. Not sure all of the reasons. On my FX the slider comes down so hard that it knocks it out frequently to say the least. I have had days where it is over 50%. Lately on my Xaos(slider crawls down) I think it is happening early on. I wish I knew why Bill. Shitty risers I guess. Mabey my packing. Could have something to do with cramming my main in to small of container. Quoteyou guys do come off like you're criticizing the guy for making a half second decision to cut away, but whatever. Hopefully Gary is not as sensitive as you Bill. I sure meant no disrespect. Someome (not meaning Gary) just might save themselves a cutaway hearing different viewpoints. Josh btw How are you liking Cal. Did you here about Tom? That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billdo 0 #24 July 10, 2003 *** btw How are you liking Cal. Did you here about Tom?*** PM sent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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craddock 0 #13 July 9, 2003 QuoteProblem is that he didn't notice that the brake had fired until it spun up on him, by that time (Kelly ) the twisties had him pretty good and releasing the other brake probably wouldn't have done anything beacuse of being help fast by the twisties The video did not look nearly as bad as I expected, although I will admit I have brake fires? quite often . It does not look to me like that canopy is "spun up" that bad at all, in fact I can clearly see that there are no twist in the lines . At the point of the canopy being released I am having a hard time identifying how much the risers are twisted. I believe it is likely that releasing the other brake line would have fixed the problem; however like you pointed out, I was not there. As Chuck pointed out a review of malfuntions and emergency procedures could not hurt. I mean no disrespect to your friend. However, if I had cut away from every brake fire in which the slider was down and there were no twists in the lines....I don't know Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyharbird 0 #14 July 9, 2003 Hey guys Well since it was me who had the chop i will tell you my version. Rolled over from a tandem video and throw out at about 3500, canopy started to open and the went to the left, the spin started and the g's stopped me from being able to get my arm up to the toggle, the line twists were under the slider with the risers rapped around my neck pinning my head back. (not to comfortable) So cutaway which took two hands and yes i do have the anti twist housing from javelin, and deployed my reserve. i cutway at 1800 and was sitting under my reserve by 1500 ft. I have had break fires before, but this one just went faster than i could catch it. Gary Harbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #15 July 9, 2003 I am not sure about this because there may be other factors involved. Its just that an 84 which is probably loaded under 2.5 just doesn't sound like you should have to cut it away in this instance to me. In any case on several instances I had premature brake releases on my 70 and every time was able to release the other one and stop the spiral without line twists. However on one instance when this happened on my 62 it spun up violently before I could think about reaching for a brake. Ofcourse I had to cut that one away.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #16 July 9, 2003 Good job Gary and congrats for getting it on video. Looked like you had half a twist on your reserve also. What a ride! That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #17 July 9, 2003 Cool video. It was a good chop as far as I am concerned. He lived. What else do you want? Hah. I used to have that happen quite a bit, until I got rid of my velcroless toggles. I always fixed it without much thinking about it by flying with the opposite rear riser, until I figured out what was going on. It may be to immediatly release the brakes is the better thing to do, but my hands are always at the rears on opening anyway, to steer clear of other canopies immediately, or whatever. Anyway, that's me usual gig. If anybody can tell me why they think that is wrong, go for it. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #18 July 9, 2003 Likewise, on everything but wingsuit jumps my hands are up on the backs of my rear risers. The only pisser about brake fires is that once you clear the other brake and kick out of the spins, you are generally caught with you damn slider above your toggles. Pulling your slider over unstowed toggles on a Velocity 79 is a daunting task at best, especially in traffic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #19 July 9, 2003 I have about 3-4000 jumps, and NO cutaways... I jump a Vel 90. Given the rapid altitude loss under a highly loaded xbrace under those conditions, the likelyhood for hard cutaways, etc.... chop first, ask questions later. bear in mind that I have kicked out of spinny line twists on my Stilleto many times, and out of plane old twists on my Velocity a couple times, so I do not just "give up" and chop at the drop of a hat... But based on the video, looks like a good decision to me... that thing was fully spun up friggin fast. I think he woulda had to pop the brakes within 2 seconds of opening to catch it fast enough... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #20 July 9, 2003 QuoteThe only pisser about brake fires is that once you clear the other brake and kick out of the spins, you are generally caught with you damn slider above your toggles. Pulling your slider over unstowed toggles on a Velocity 79 is a daunting task at best, especially in traffic. This can be a major inconvenience, especially if you wear motocross gloves. If I release both toggles in this situation, I have a hard enough time getting my fingers through the toggles. I had to land the other day with one toggle through and one on top of the unstowed slider in order to find a place to land. However more times than not, once I steer the canopy in a safe direction I just hold it straight with harness leaving me both hands to guide the slider down through the unstowed toggle, loosen chest ect. I find this fairly easy to do on an FX or Velocity, but requires more harness on the Xaos 27's. The Xaos 27 is not nearly as sensitive to harness input as I would like though. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #21 July 10, 2003 QuoteI've had two spinners that were related to an unstowed break and I did exactly what SkymonkeyOne mentioned (go for both breaks) I've had 3 so far. The first under the Diablo110 that I had. A toggle had come loose. I luckily pulled at 10k and rode it down to 5k before dizzily realizing that a toggle was undone. I was HOSTILE at myself for not catching it quicker. That is the day I set a hard deck for myself under canopy of no lower than 3k for deployment. It didn't take long at all to lose that 5k. Had I not had that experience I don't think I would have automatically responded like SkymonkeyOne said by automatically grabbing both toggles. The last 2 times I got it instantly. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billdo 0 #22 July 10, 2003 QuoteQuotealthough I will admit I have brake fires? quite often . Why do you have break fires so often? Is your gear not properly maintained? Quote Crapflinger wrote: I have about 3-4000 jumps, and NO cutaways... First off, by posting this I think crapflinger has bought himself a reserve ride pretty soon. I mean, knock on wood or something man! Also, does anyone think it's kinda strange that he doesn't know by a factor of 1000 (or 25% of total jumps) how many jumps he has??? Anyway, I'm pretty much just joking around. I've learned a lot about how to handle spinners from this forum and the good advice on it, so I respect everyone's opinion, even Josh's, but still, you guys do come off like you're criticizing the guy for making a half second decision to cut away, but whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #23 July 10, 2003 QuoteWhy do you have break fires so often? Is your gear not properly maintained? No it is not a maintanence issue. Has happened since my risers/toggles were new. Not sure all of the reasons. On my FX the slider comes down so hard that it knocks it out frequently to say the least. I have had days where it is over 50%. Lately on my Xaos(slider crawls down) I think it is happening early on. I wish I knew why Bill. Shitty risers I guess. Mabey my packing. Could have something to do with cramming my main in to small of container. Quoteyou guys do come off like you're criticizing the guy for making a half second decision to cut away, but whatever. Hopefully Gary is not as sensitive as you Bill. I sure meant no disrespect. Someome (not meaning Gary) just might save themselves a cutaway hearing different viewpoints. Josh btw How are you liking Cal. Did you here about Tom? That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billdo 0 #24 July 10, 2003 *** btw How are you liking Cal. Did you here about Tom?*** PM sent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
