Wild Deployment

[rgoper 0]

the other day i was at Lexington jumping the 207, i bailed at 13,500 had a great freefall, deployed at 2400 AGL, the canopy went into a downplane dive, with me belly to earth, straight for the freaking ground, i ain't seen this one yet. but i didn't freak, i was fully inflated, slider was down, so i collapsed it and stowed it behind my helmet, unstowed my brakes and flared like a mofo. fixed it...BUT the uncomfortable part of it, is what caused it? i was SSS at 1450 AGL and had an otherwise uneventful landing. by the way, the canopy is a Heatwave 170^2 loaded at 1.58:1. this is the first "event" i've had with this canopy, the people that saw it from the ground freaked, i'm glad i didn't, it's really kewel when your training kicks in, now another 100' and cha-chink! any thoughts on what happened anyone? thanks. (slider pushing down on dive loops??)

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Hooknswoop 19]

Is it possible the brakes weren't set?

Hook

[rgoper 0]

no, they were set, i set them myself everytime, when i released them, the excess slack came with it. i already thought about that one. the only thing i can possibly think of is the slider pushing down on the diveloops? is this a possibility? even though it was momentarily scary, after i got it squared away it felt kinda good to not have freaked!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[JJohnson 0]

I find it real hard to believe the slider could apply that much force to the dive loops without sliding right over them.......
Pretty strange man.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[rgoper 0]

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I find it real hard to believe the slider could apply that much force to the dive loops without sliding right over them.......

i agree, but i'm clutching at straws sorta..kinda in a way. i've never experienced this sort of deployment before, this canopy opens 400-500 feet every time, i straight pro-pack, just push in the nose, nothing fancy, i had a Hornet that deployed the same way, i like the short openings, it's not really a hard opening shock load either, so it's not a "slammer" opening, just "brisk"

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[JumpHog 0]

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slider was down, so i collapsed it and stowed it behind my helmet, unstowed my brakes and flared like a mofo. fixed it...

I have to ask, but why did you take the time to collapse and stow your slider while you were in the middle of a high-speed emergency. I'm glad it worked out okay, but you say that your were SSS by 1450 feet, and had it taken another 100 feet, you would have chopped it. Taking the time to stow your slider, while your canopy is diving at the ground at a high rate of speed is a very foolish waste of precious time.

[rgoper 0]

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I have to ask, but why did you take the time to collapse and stow your slider while you were in the middle of a high-speed emergency

fair question. i collapsed it and stowed it behind my helmet because i have slinks, and the damn thing was right on top of my dive loops on my risers and covering my toggles, so i did what i did to actually expedite getting to my toggles, fighting the slider instead of collapsing and stowing it would have been counter productive.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[flyhi 24]

Rogue tension knot that released when you flared?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[cheneyneel 0]

Was it a spinning dive? A tension knot could have been a reasonable cause...

Does the canopy dive really well just from harness imput?Going back to the question was it a spinning dive....
Swopping can be done very effiecently from just harness imputs... If the canopy dives really well that could be another cause?maybe..

[freakydiver 0]

You stowed it (slider) behind your helmet while diving? What was it stowed to? Would the stow have given if you had to chop? I had a rigger look at my stow velcro once and tell me it was definately wiser of me to make sure everything was in good working order b4 stowing the slider under the 1 inch velcro in case I ever had to chop.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[rgoper 0]

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Was it a spinning dive?

no, not a spinner.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Jethers203 0]

Freaky,
I don't think he stowed his slider a way that it would have affected him chopping it. I think he meant that he just pulled it down below the toggles and slinks and put it behind his head to get it out of the way.

Dude,
This sounds a lot what happened to AggieDave a couple weeks ago on his Heatwave 170. Talk to him.

[rgoper 0]

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You stowed it (slider) behind your helmet while diving?

yes, i did, it was attached to nothing, just the back of my helmet holding it down, although i do have a velcro slider keeper. i'm not real sure, but let's just say the slider was stowed under the slider keeper, at the speed i was traveling, the velcro would never have held the canopy, or the slider in the event of a chop-reserve deployment. it takes about 2 miliseconds to collapse and stow my slider.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Kris 0]

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...at the speed i was traveling, the velcro would never have held the canopy, or the slider in the event of a chop-reserve deployment.

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe BillVon knows of a person who thought that and paid for it with his life during an entanglement. Chopped the main and it hung by the velcro slider stow on a jumpsuit and wrapped the reserve.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[rgoper 0]

i'm willing to risk it. hell, i may die proving my point one day, but it's mechanically impossible for the strip of velcro to hold a cut-away main and slider at a high speed, if it will hold, i'm going to start using velcro slinks. (sarcasm) tell ya what i'll do, next reserve repack due, i'll chop the main with the slider in the velcro stowed position and have someone video the results.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Yoshi 0]

I just roll my slider once stowed and pull it behind my head... tha seems to keep it plenty out of the way... when you do that does it ride up??? do you loosen your chest strap? do your shoulder straps come off your shoulders much once under canopy... I have seen many people with velcro stows on the jumpsuit and even sometimes on the top reserve flap, but I have never really seen the need... blue skies rich!
I noticed on my first jump with my new rig that my leg straps were not as tight as they should be and once under canopy my shoulder straps were off my shoulders about 3-4 inches...that made it difficult to reach the dive loops and also made it difficult to keep the slider behind my head... anyways I guess that is all kind of off the subject... so you were in a streight down dive with one canopy out? I dont really see that as an issue unless you are really low and dont have time to tap the reatr risers or flare out of it to get the canopy to come back to regular flight..
jsut my 2 cents:)
-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[freakydiver 0]

I know one jumper who no longer jumps because of complications with a cut-away and a slider stow, he walks with quite a limp still - 8 years later.

Just watchin yer back, blue skys...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Kris 0]

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but it's mechanically impossible for the strip of velcro to hold a cut-away main and slider at a high speed

Two flaws in your logic. One, it may not always be high-speed. Second, never underestimate the high sheer force of good velcro. Peel force can be easy, but getting it to shear apart can be quite difficult.

And unless you have a terteriary rig, cutting away a main just to test your reserve is a pretty mentally dense feat.

But, it's your gear, your choices.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[rhino 0]

I wish my crossfire2 would do that. I wouldn't have to hang on them front risers so long

[hookitt 0]

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And unless you have a terteriary rig, cutting away a main just to test your reserve is a pretty mentally dense feat.

I'm going out on a limb here but I'll just bet he meant this was to be done on the ground

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[rgoper 0]

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I'm going out on a limb here but I'll just bet he meant this was to be done on the ground

your on the right limb!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[jumperconway 0]

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i'm willing to risk it. hell, i may die proving my point one day, but it's mechanically impossible for the strip of velcro to hold a cut-away main and slider at a high speed,
------------------------------------------
Hi Rich,
Just food for thought; once your risers cut away, you basically have a bed sheet in tow with very little drag! The velcro could hold the shear!

[freakydiver 0]

Now do you believe me YET???
Edited because this is actually in response to Rgroper....

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Just food for thought; once your risers cut away, you basically have a bed sheet in tow with very little drag!

Why would the canopy deflate?

Cutting away from spinning line twists or other fully inflated canopy, with the slider stowed, puts your entire weight times "G" forces on the velcro. Ever see the pic of the guy sitting on his slider, flying his canopy? His risers are completely slack, all the weight is being held by his slider.

Tell ya what I'm gonna do. Decide on the design of a velcro slider keeper, that is in use today, that will hold the slider the best. I'll build one (brand new velcro) and go do an intentional cutaway with the slider stowed in the velcro, and video it.

Hook

[rgoper 0]

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once your risers cut away, you basically have a bed sheet in tow with very little drag! The velcro could hold the shear!

let's just assume for the moment that the velcro would hold. once cut away was initiated, even if the velcro did hold the slider, there's absolutely no way the rings, etc... wouldn't pass through the grommets in the slider upon cut away procedures. i understand a lot of people are concerned about stowing sliders with velcro slider keepers, i'm just not one of them, and never will be. i'm not professing it cannot happen, because i know "murphy's law" is ever present, but in this case, it's highly unlikely this would happen, especially since my slider keeper is attached to my reserve flap and would fly off anyway upon deployment of reserve.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"