conor 0 #1 April 25, 2003 Not sure if this is the most appropriate forum but this is most likely the place where I'll find people in the know. Basically, I have 200 jumps on my Velocity 120 (loaded at 1.5) and I am consistantly getting "funky" openings. Funky means: very snivvelly, often turning erratically during the snivvel, occasionally causing slack lines, sometimes just one side opens and flies around the other, dramatic surges. Openings can take up to 700-800 feet. I had about 950 jumps on Stilettos before I started jumping the Velocity. People give out about the unpredictable nature of Stiletto openings (personally I quite liked them) but the Velocity openings are a whole new ball game. Initially I thought the snivvel was due to the new Vectran lines but it is still causing me problems after 200 jumps. I have spoken to a few other Velocity jumpers and none have reported these problems. I spoke to PD and they suggested I try a smaller slider which they happily supplied. I tried it and it doesn't help much. I have now sent the canopy back for inspection. By the way, occasionally I do get good clean on-heading openings but more often than not it gets funky. No chops yet but it seems like its only a matter of time. I note there was a tread on dropzone.com on Vengence openings. My problem sounds similar to theirs. Sorry that this has turned into a bit of a ramble. Basically, I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar problems with their Velocity. (Date of manufacture is Sept 1999 if that matters). Blue skies Conor PS - No its not my body position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheneyneel 0 #2 April 25, 2003 I have put a 100 jumps on a 120 Velocity at 2:1 and it constantly opened great.. Sometimes searching for a heading though...But still I dont have enough expierence with Velocities, but could it be from not loading it enough? Just a general question I dont know if you can under weigh a velocity and it affect oenings.. Did you ask PD that?.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 April 25, 2003 What are you doing as far as packing? I have never had a bad opening on either of my two velocities, though two people here on my dropzone have both chopped. My guess is that they both, while each having over 1000 jumps, have not been sitting still in the harness through opening. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #4 April 25, 2003 what do you do with the nose when you pack it? I leave it totally alone, and let it hang... works for me. I've got a 120 and a 111, they both open pretty well, they do hunt, but no slack lines or surging as you suggested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #5 April 25, 2003 I had similar problems when I first started jumping Velocities. There are some packing tips that have changed my openings dramatically. You also have to make sure that you are sitting still in the harness and being really carefull on your inputs on your risers while the canopy is opening. The input that you may have put in on your stiletto before is not what you want to be doing with a velocity. Those canopies are very twitchy and are more suceptible (sp?) to harness and riser input. Things that I make sure I do on every packjob: Slider placement is key, make sure that the grommets are placed all the way down on the suspension lines. I usually give them a firm press and make sure that you keep them there during the packjob. I believe that if one or two of those badboys slips in a packjob, you will get the canopy surging to one side over the other.IMHO. Have you every noticed that the slider may not come down evenly??? Sometimes, one side comes down faster than the other resulting in that surge to one side over the other. I also make sure the slider that is on the side of the nose is fully exposed and open. I dont do anything with the nose. I barely tuck it in so that it is out of the way. I roll the piss out of the tail, just because I like slower openings and I make sure that it is super tight around the lines so the slider isnt going anywhere. I also have short line stows (about an inch) while double stowing large rubber bands. I have found that the openings have been extremely onheading after doing this. I used to get linetwists quite often in the beginning, but once i shortened up the linestows...never a problem after that. Thats what I do...use it if you like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #6 April 25, 2003 If you've tried all the normal remedies, you may want to consider the fact that there are no two canopies exactly alike out there. Human interface during production can cause small, non-visible changes to the canopy that might just make it do things a little different than others like it. You tend to find this more commonly on canopies that are more extreme and complicated in design and performance. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #7 April 25, 2003 I'm still fairly new to my velocity and have noticed similar issues. However, since I've tried adopting a "I'll go where it goes" and relaxing and concentrating on going with the canopy as opposed to steering the opening as much as I did my hurricane, the openings have been noticably better. I also noticed that if the slider came down fast it was more likely to do this as opposed to a slower opening. Keep us posted please, cause I'm still trying to get that part of the canopy figured out. Blue skies and safe swoops IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyharbird 0 #8 April 25, 2003 I jump velocity 84s loaded at 2.2 and get good openings, on heading but they shake. I have experienced what you are talking about, but only on the bigger velocities the 111, 103, 96, but when i got down to the 90 and the 84s the openings became more on heading, so maybe you light wing loading has something to do with it? My 0.2 cents Gary Harbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SickMonkey 0 #9 April 26, 2003 I also have the same experience as Gary. I've jumped Velocity 84, 90, 96, 103, 111 and the larger sizes with a lighter wing loading tend to pressurize more erratically. However, pack it up cleanly, fly through the opening just like any other canopy, and things should work out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueshrew 0 #10 April 26, 2003 I have no experience with Velocities, but my b/f and a jump buddy jump them. The jump buddy had bad openings and was ready to sell his, until Rickster Powell showed him how to pack it a bit different. My b/f has only found one packer that can pack it the way he likes, and she apparently has been packing a lot of small HP canopies. A lot of others I've seen had problems until someone showed them how to pack it. So maybe you just need to get someone you know has great openings on a Velocity give you some pointers, or watch your packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conor 0 #11 April 28, 2003 Hi it's me again - poster of the original thread. Thanks to all for the helpful advice. It seems that the general consensus of the replies is that I am not packing it the way it wants or am not working the harness correctly during deployment. Although I don't believe this, I am willing to accept that it may be the case. I have printed off the thread and do intend to follow the tips given. I am usually quite careful at packing and in the harness during deployment. A few suggested that I might be underloading the canopy (I'm just at 1.5). Another possibility but others (heavier people) have jumped my canopy and also had problems. The canopy is with PD. I am interested to hear what they have to say. I will keep you all informed. Thanks, Conor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 April 28, 2003 Hey Conor, I'm not sure anyone here is saying that you're doing anything incorrectly (harness or packing) but rather that our own experiences with the canopy have caused some "unusual" openings due to ourselves causing these errors - may apply, may not - not really sure though Please do keep us informed, I for one, am curious how this problem can be minimized. Blue skies and safe swoops, Ian Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #13 April 28, 2003 I have had similar issues on both of my Xaos 21s loaded 2.2-2.3 and just watching the horizon and staying neutral in the saddle stopped most of it but if she starts to go, be ready to go with her! Good luck. Conway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #14 April 29, 2003 I had 2 cutaways on my 103 before I figured out what I was doing. Watching the canopy instead of the horizon was the first thing that was hosing me. I also realize I was weighting the left side (if your right handed balance tends to come from the left side, go figure) so I was spinning it to the left. I got a smaller slider that I really like but I do roll the nose 3 and 3 next to the center cell, 8|_|8 (8 are rolls, |_| center cell) and that gives it alittle more snivel, very soft, but the smaller slider allows it to open up alittle faster. I also keep the tail cacoon pretty tight. Pretty neat packer too. Most of the stuff I learned from talking to the various PD Blue members who did a lot of R&D with the canopy. Then I talked with Gypsy in Deland (The woman is the most amazing packer on the entire earth without a doubt) because when she packed for me I would have beautiful openings, she told me what I have mentioned above and have had great success. Now if only all the other packers would pack the same. I would not be surprised about the lighter loading being a problem also, When I jumped the 120 while demoing down (loaded 1.5) I would have sometimese interesting extreme snivel openings cause you are simply not heavy enough to help keep the airspeed up to pressurize all the cells. A 103 puts you at a 1.8ish wingloading which is on the low side of the optimum range but gives you a NICE canopy to fly with. Jonathan --Jonathan Bartlett D-24876 AFF-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffejdraga 0 #15 May 1, 2003 Quote I have had similar issues on both of my Xaos 21s loaded 2.2-2.3 and just watching the horizon and staying neutral in the saddle stopped most of it but if she starts to go, be ready to go with her! Good luck. Conway Yeah, let me add to this. I also have a Xaos ...21 120 loaded at about 2.1 or 2.2 or so. I have about 300 jumps on it, and for a LONG time, the openings were wild. I would attempt to steer it open before it was open, using the rear risers. I would end up over-compensating, and wind up getting tossed around. NOW, I have it figured out (so far...). When I throw out, I go into the hardest stablest arch I can, but as soon as I am sitting up, I go totally limp, and relax. All zen, no input. the canopy actually opens on heading now...who woulda thought!! I hope this helps. jeff D-16906 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #16 May 1, 2003 Greetings Mr Agard. Congrats on the 10 years See you this weekend. Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffejdraga 0 #17 May 2, 2003 Thanks Ian, I have a nice pic for you of you swoopin your velocity at jumptown. cya jeff D-16906 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #18 May 2, 2003 Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. Body position. That's my guess."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #19 May 2, 2003 To less what sounds like a blow to Conor. One theory is that if you watch your opening too much, you are not in a good body position. I was getting weird openings, even on my Sabre, whilst flying a wingsuit, where body position is very critical. As soon as I started to just relax and stay symmetrical and straight, my opening were clean and on heading. Chances are, if you are looking at your parachute during deployment, your head is cocked one way or the other. On a more senstive wing, this may have an effect. A theory, not an accusation. My apologies for coming across as offensive."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #20 May 2, 2003 I strongly believe that which way your head is facing after your canopy has put you upright is pretty close to irrrelevant. However there are other things that one would never think about that are more significant and so I start my annecdote. There I was happy with my new canopy (my VX-62) I thought it opened fine a little hard but hey I am not going to fly a spectre just to feel comfortable on opening. I was even wearing weights from time to time, my openings were not at all a concern. Then suddenly my line twist rate started to increase. It had been at 1 out of four openings with line twists and suddenly it was one out of 2. Then before you know it, it shot above 90%. I had line twists more than 30 jumps in a row. I was getting frustrated I would be in the airplane dreading my opening. I even got my opening videoed and watched it in slow motion as I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. All I heard from people whose opinion mattered was its your canopy, its too small you have to either live with it or upsize. Well my intenion was to do neither. Somebody said it was my body position so I did what they said and picked a spot on the ground to keep an eye on my heading during the opening and even though I saw myself keeping a solid heading, still my canopy spun to the left. But this was the key, I finally realized it always spun in the same direction and now I need to find out what caused it. Well that didn't take long. I have a pull out system and I was extending my right arm all the way out and then releasing pilot chute there. So instead I put my pilot chute six inches away from my right hip and released it from there. I have not had line twists for more than thirty jumps. I went from more than 90% line twists to more than 90% on heading simply by releasing my pilot chute differently.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #21 May 2, 2003 QuoteI strongly believe that which way your head is facing after your canopy has put you upright is pretty close to irrrelevant. However there are other things that one would never think about that are more significant and so I start my annecdote.So do I. If you start looking right after you pitch, before you're upright, you stand a chance to bend slightly in the direction you're looking. This may be a reason why AFF instructors tell students to wait two seconds before looking."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conor 0 #22 June 9, 2003 A number of people asked me to keep in touch and to let them know how I got on with my problem regarding my Velocity openings. I sent the canopy back to PD and they scrutinized over it for a number of weeks. They recently got back to me and advised that there seemed to be an inherent and unfixable problem with the canopy and so have very kindly offered me a replacement. Top marks to PD's aftersales service! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #23 June 9, 2003 my .02 When I got my velocity I had some crappy line twist experiences (i.e. kicking out of them while sniveling, feeling (and seeing) the thing twist and then untwist completely by itself over my head, etc... adopted the short stow technique outlined below (my stows are now doublestowed large bands, 1" bites) and doing the birdman "line stows against backpad" thing.... no twists since. I don't care too much about heading performance as I am a good tracker. however, the snivelyness and the snaking really bugs me and makes me re-think it's use for video. I may try a smaller slider and see how it works... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #24 June 9, 2003 I always pack with my lines to my back, pin to grommet. I started doing that when I began making a lot of wingsuit jumps and have found that all my openings are better packing in that manner. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #25 June 10, 2003 I called PD and had a smaller slider made for me. It really helps, and I like it a lot. I would advise it for anyone. --Jonathan Bartlett D-24876 AFF-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
