TEric 0 #1 October 5, 2002 Hi all Sorry about the subject line - I just couldn't bring myself to start another post entitled "1st Rig", or "Downsizing?" It's finally time for me to stop lurking around as a guest and show myself. I've been jumping since July 27th, and have 38 jumps now. (30 on beat up student gear 260-290 sqft f-111's, 3 on a newish pd 230, 5 on a Sabre 210) Have stood up all except for jumps # 3 & 4 (as radio instructor called flare, downdraft = PLF). Now it's time for me to buy my own gear. I have read countless posts and have come to the following conclusion. I should be looking for a Sabre, Sabre2, Omni, Hornet, Saffire, Saffire2, Spectra, Triathalon, Diablo or Omega at around 170 sqft. Canopies to avoid include Stilleto, Xaos, Vengance, etc.. I am 5'7", 160lbs, DZ elevation +- 750 ft so with gear I should be loading 170 at slightly less that 1.1:1 I realize that the best advise will come from my instructors / coaches, but all input is appreciated. I am strongly considering looking for a rig with a zp 150 main that is roomy enough to allow me to use a 170 for the next 20-30 jumps. Opinions? Also - the market seems a little starved here in southern Ontario - so if you know of anyone in the area who is perhaps selling a suitable rig (safe for freefly/headdown) please let me know. I would like to jump it before I buy, and don't mind travelling (N.F. to Montreal) Thanks, sorry to start another thread on a tired topic, just looking for personallized info. TEric Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #2 October 5, 2002 YOu pretty much answered all your questions...except for the zp150......Me personally I wouldnt go from a 210 to a 150 jsut like that....maybe spend some time on a 190 then 170 and then 150!!.. I know for me 5'10" 150lbs that was the best transition for me and I'm flying a HOR 150 and love it...just take your time be carefull and have fun!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #3 October 5, 2002 If you weigh 16o thats probaby 185 with gear. I would recomend a rig that is cut for a 170 and jump a 190 for a while, not a predetermined amount of jumps but until you can land crosswind and downwind. I am also a huge advocate of starting to learn front riser landings while on your first canopy. I weigh 185 and am still jumping my safire 209 after 360 jumps(flies like a 190 though) . Learning to be aggressive on a big canopy is lots of fun and gives you a pretty big safety margin. Also take into account the size of the reserve you can put in a rig. My girlfriend weighs 135 dry and finds a 150 plenty fast enough so an eventual 170 should be good for a few hundred jumps imo. Johnny Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #4 October 5, 2002 Hey Lisa, watch this! Scratch the Diablo off your list, replace it with a Triathalon if you're thinking about anything from Aerodyne. The Diablo is a pretty high performance canopy and easily outclasses anything else in your list. If you're really 160 that makes you about 185 out the door, you don't need to be jumping a 150 at this point in your career, there's time for that later. My recommendation would be to jump a 170 for a while, that puts you at a little over 1:1. The Sabre 2 is a nice canopy that will let you have lots of fun and leave a little margin for error, the Safire is an equally nice canopy, I can't speak about the Safire 2. Otherwise the other canopies you listed, minus the Diablo, are fine canopies for a beginner. Don't believe the hype that you can (or should) buy a canopy that you'll grow into - that's a sure-fire recipe for injury. Good luck. - Jim Hey Lisa, it's OK - I'm a little drunk at this point. "Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #5 October 5, 2002 Hi, I do not want to be giving a sales pitvh, but my second canopy was a Safire 169 ( actually A 150 compared to PD Sabre) and totally love that canopy. After 350 jumps on it I was doing 90° front riser landing and it performed great. I now have a Crossfire2 130 and the transition was far simpler than I would have imagined. Anyway, I just sent my Safire 169 in for a reline to put up for sale. You can personal message me if you are interested. I personally think Icarus is a great company and have totally awesome product. So if you are interested in my Safire or not I would really incurage you to check them out. Blue skies Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #6 October 5, 2002 Quote I should be looking for a Sabre, Sabre2, Omni, Hornet, Saffire, Saffire2, Spectra, Triathalon, Diablo or Omega at around 170 sqft. No I am not being bias!!jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #7 October 5, 2002 Congratulations and Welcome to the most awesome sport there is. If you would like to save money the best canopy for your money in my opinion is the Hornet,this is a excellent semi elliptical ZP and cost 100's less than other comparable canopies. I would recommend a 190,which would be good for your first 2/300+ jumps while you gain the valuable flying/survival skills you need in this sport. Learning to fly is like learning to walk,you will fall down and scrape your knee,do it under a forgiving canopy. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 October 6, 2002 Yes, a Hornet would be a great first canopy. And considering the exchange rate between Canadian Dollars, American Dollars and South African Rands, probably your best buy. In Pitt Meadows we have had great results with the pair of Hornet 190s that we rent to people who are between PFF and their first rigs. Also, I would caution you against transitioning directly from a 210 to a 150. Eight years ago, I transitioned form a 220 to a Sabre 150 and scared the shorts off myself! After a year of canopy fear, I traded my Sabre 150 for a Sabre 170. I jumped the Sabre 170 for 4 years before trading it for a another Sabre 150, then a year later a Sabre 135. Since I tend to over-load the Sabre 135, I have been jumping a Diablo 135 lately. Note, the Diablo is a fast-turning canopy that I am using for transition training towards an elliptical canopy next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #9 October 7, 2002 Take that Diablo off the list. Its a high performance canopy unlike the others on the list. Its got a very fast turn rate thatll scare the bejeezes out of you of youre not careful. Had to clean out my shorts the first couple times I jumped mine and hauled down on the risers too hard. JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #10 October 7, 2002 Whatever suits you right now you will grow out of in the next 100 jumps. F111 packs up smaller than ZP. Consider buying a rig with a PD170 (or similar F111 canopy) in it - buzz around on that for 70 or 80 jumps. By then you will have a better idea of what you want and can buy a ZP150 that will fit straight into your container and still allow you to downsize again later on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #11 October 7, 2002 Quote Hey Lisa, watch this! Will one of you East Coasters go check on Jimbo? I worry about him... I'd agree with what people are saying here. Take the Diablo off your list; it's a bit aggressive for a first main. Most everyone seems to be recommending nine cells. I'm a bit old school, I'm going to recommend a seven cell. For me, a Spectre or Tri is easier to be accurate with and easier to get a stand up landing out of. It depends on what kind of landings you want to do; if turf surfing appeals to you then a nine cell would be the more likely choice. If you aren't all that interested in swooping right now, a seven cell will do everything you want it to, and the skills you learn flying it will transfer over to a nine cell and/or elliptical canopy later. Oh, and don't believe the hype that seven cells can't be swooped... Size your first canopy so you can safely land it in worst case conditions - downwind into someone's backyard for instance. A canopy that size is big enough that you can screw up a bit on landing and still walk back to the packing area - and unless you're perfect, you WILL screw up a bit on at least one landing in your first couple hundred jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
annaandbob 0 #12 October 7, 2002 A guy I know who has got out of the sport is selling his stuff for a fair price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #13 October 7, 2002 QuoteWhatever suits you right now you will grow out of in the next 100 jumps. Not neccessarily. At 900 jumps I load my main at 1.0 - the same loading I recommend to most novice jumpers. I have plenty of fun under it. Not every jumper feels the need to go faster... some of us get off more on the freefall than on the landing. QuoteConsider buying a rig with a PD170 (or similar F111 canopy) in it - buzz around on that for 70 or 80 jumps. I used to think this way. The real downside to buying F111 first is that the flare is quite a bit different than the flare needed under zp. It took me about a hundred jumps to really learn the zp flare after 600+ jumps on F111. Nowadays, it makes more sense to me for a novice jumper to buy zp loaded at around 1.0 for a first main. This way they are learning to fly/land/flare the same basic type canopy they'll be flying for the rest of their jumping career. I would recommend F111 only to someone who is trying to build a rig on a tight budget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #14 October 7, 2002 The other issue with F-111 fabric is its re-sale value - or lack thereof. At Pitt Meadows, we have difficulty giving away F-111 canopies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #15 October 7, 2002 We, for the most part, can give you advice only on the type of canopy not the wingloading. All those canopies, except for the Diablo, are good calls. Get the Hornet! I jump one and it's a helluva canopy regardless the fact that is cheeper than the competition. As for the size ask your instructors. Every person is different. Every person develops cc skills differently. I know jumpers that could go 1.4 with less than 200 jumps due to their skills, maturity, and understanding. Others should stay with 1.1 despite 500+ jumps.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #16 October 7, 2002 Sure! I did my first 700+ jumps on an F111 and the Stilletto took a bit of learning afterwards (but probably only 20-30 jumps). Point is that most people do grow out of canopies pretty quickly between 20 and 150 jumps, you can pick up an F111 without spending a fortune and drop in a smaller ZP canopy (if you feel the need) when you have the experience to fork out for something you will be happy with for a longer time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1234hutch 0 #17 October 9, 2002 Hi People are correct to point out the the elipticals are going to turn faster, dive a little harder, particularily when loaded past 1.3:1. Also at the higher wing loadings the "bad" characteist Another point of veiw is that the elipiticals are often generally flatter gliding and a little slower in full flight particularly when loaded at 1:1 hutch ps . I have some gear email me outside the forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
