Really bad gear ideas

[PhreeZone 15]

If you remember... Chris from PA posted pics of a Beezy Bag that allows you to test canopies just like that, with no drag to simulate freebags on reserves, with out having to chase freebags down all the time.

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[Kris 0]

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I was thinking the exact same thing... Tieing anything off to the slider just seemed like a bad idea to me, possibly encouraging a slider-up mal...

The individual in question certainly has a hell of a lot more knowledge then me, he can do what he wants with his main.

Perry's setup is definitely odd. He saw some people using it during the swoop competition at the Ranch and had it done to his VX-79. I got a quick look at it over a month ago at Skydive Dallas and a really good look last weekend at the AOT boogie.

If you're jumping a tiny pocket-rocket, I can see the advantage of trying to get rid of as much drag as possible.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[PhreeZone 15]

Much cheaper and eaiser is to freepack a canopy witha tailpocket and attach a pud handle to the leading edge of the canopy (NOT RECOMMENDED AT ALL!)

Seriously using Paper bags to static line canopies out has been done to great success.

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[councilman24 36]

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***


If you're jumping a tiny pocket-rocket, I can see the advantage of trying to get rid of as much drag as possible.

How the heck do they have enough time to stow something! They're only in the air 30 seconds.

Worst idea.... GreenStar Track II aka Death Star. I think I got the name right. Reserve riser sewn into shoulder junction and no confluence wrap. Open reserve head down and watch the reserve risers peel the harness apart. The field fix was to add a confluence wrap. My first instructor in 1978 jumped one of these. One of the few harness designs that actually came apart in use.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Not to take the thread too far off topic, but since Kris and a couple of others mentioned it, there are some people jumping all varieties of odd drag-reducing stuff on tour. Personally, I don't think I would be doing what Perry is up to, but if it works, heh, good for him. One other noteworthy but quesitionable method is Sonic's removable slider. When it comes down after the canopy opening, he simply pulls a line and all four corners come undone and he puts the slider down his shirt or jumpsuit. Problem is, the corner openings drag on the lines on the way down and he has to fight to get it down. I am not sure if he still uses that. As far as cleaning up the top of your main for competition purposes, I like Troy Ketsdever's plan the best: "throw away" pilot chutes and d-bags. Hey, jump out, dump, and not care if your PC d-bag combo gets found or not. I have an almost endless supply of non-collapsible PC's laying around and I can sew a bag in 10 minutes. Typically, the people who use stuff like this only use them in "distance" competitions anyway, so it's not like you ever have to make more than two or three. Actually, I am not sure Troy ever lost a single one of his bags at Perris last year, either meet. Someone always fetched them for him.

OK, back on target: blast handles looked very stylish, but if you pulled in any direction other than straight along the line of the channel, you were hosed. I find it odd that a lot of the bail-out rigs you see on military aircraft still have them.

Chuck

[markbaur 0]

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Worst idea.... GreenStar Track II aka Death Star. I think I got the name right. Reserve riser sewn into shoulder junction and no confluence wrap. Open reserve head down and watch the reserve risers peel the harness apart.

Not quite. The mistake was sewing through the comfort pads to attach the risers to the harness. The risers failed because folks picked the stitches to remove the pads -- to save a few ounces of weight -- without checking to see if the stitches were structural. No fix was necessary for the folks who didn't try jumping partially disassembled harnesses. Some jumpers may have added a confluence wrap, but it's hard for me to imagine a deployment scenario where the stitch pattern is subject to catastrophic peel and not sheer.

Mark

[markbaur 0]

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blast handles ... I find it odd that a lot of the bail-out rigs you see on military aircraft still have them.

Why do you think that is?

Mark

[PhreeZone 15]

Who made this GreenStar rig?

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[councilman24 36]

I can't remember. I don't think it was anybody still in business. Anybody older than me rember? Or have their Poynter's handy?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[markbaur 0]

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Who made this GreenStar rig?

Greene Star Systems, Xenia, Ohio. Closed its doors in 1979, as a result of loss of business and lawsuits related to the riser separation issue.

Mark

[billvon 2,400]

>blast handles ... I find it odd that a lot of the bail-out rigs you see
> on military aircraft still have them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Why do you think that is?

When bailing out at 350kts, blast handles can be useful, despite their problems.

[billvon 2,400]

>Much cheaper and eaiser is to freepack a canopy witha tailpocket and
> attach a pud handle to the leading edge of the canopy (NOT
> RECOMMENDED AT ALL!)

There is a jumper at Bridge Day a few years back who did away with the PC completely. He just packed his main, held it in his hand, and jumped. Seemed to work.

[markbaur 0]

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When bailing out at 350kts, blast handles can be useful, despite their problems.

I don't think you're suggesting that anyone deploy at 350kts. Are you saying that blast handles are less likely than D-handles or Martin-Bakers to be pulled accidentally, by wind, snag, or user?

Mark

[markbaur 0]

More interesting gear ideas (from Rodriguez Parachute Systems' Spanish Fly):
-- Instead of a steel cable reserve ripcord, use suspension line, with a pull-out style closing pin. Passed the FAA 300-pound pull test, so why not?
-- "Web-lok" hardware instead of friction adapters for chest strap and leg straps. The webbing was doubled, and a freely-moving stiffener was sewn inside. To adjust the harness, you'd pull the strap tight, then push the stiffener to the fold in the strap, where it would act as an internal friction adapter. Poynter: "The web-loks were not accepted by the industry."

How about this:
If you rotate a round parachute (like a horizontal pin-wheel), you can increase the stability -- no oscillations. That would make the jumper dizzy, though, wouldn't it? So add a swivel attachment at the base of the lines, above the jumper's head. Ummmm... Dan Poynter found that there is some residual friction in the best swivel adapter, so the first test jump (into water, wisely), was also the last.

Or this: Stewart Systems popularized the loop-style cutaway handle, and I recently saw a rig (not a Sweethog) with a similar loop-style reserve ripcord handle, which combines the best attributes of a conventional metal handle (better grip when you put your thumb through the look) and a soft handle (less likely to snag). Unfortunately, it lack an important feature: slack in the ripcord cable. Stretch the harness, open the reserve.

Mark

[howardwhite 5]

And the problem with the Reuter wrap is that if that one line essential to deployment did not get stretched, the jumper was hosed. That's what happened in the fatality I saw.

HW

[cobaltdan 0]

greg yarbonet is alive, well and works part time for atair aerospace.

he is an amazingly nice guy !

(he did not die in any accident)

attached is a pic of the V-wing canopy greg and i designed last year. this one is a 95. double skin nose which transitions to a single skin behind the b lines. V shaped ribs form airbeams extending to the tail. the resulting high chamber airfoil have very low volume. it was an experiment to gauge using high chamber wings for base canopies. the canopy was very slow in foward speed and very floaty. flys more like a 200 than a 95...


sincerely,

dan<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[PhreeZone 15]

Psst... no attachment Dan

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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[JohanW 0]

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the resulting high chamber airfoil has very low volume. it was an experiment to gauge using high chamber wings for base canopies. the canopy was very slow in forward speed and very floaty. flies more like a 200 than a 95...

High chamber or high camber? If indeed high chamber, what does that mean?

Johan.
I am. I think.

[howardwhite 5]

"greg yarbonet is alive, well and works part time for atair aerospace. "

I'm delighted to hear that, and sorry to be wrong. I wonder who I was thinking of.

HW

[cobaltdan 0]

i think the attachment will work this time...

i know....i can't spell...i will try to post some airfoil pictures this week when i am in the office for explanation.

sincerely,

dan<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[billvon 2,400]

>Are you saying that blast handles are less likely than D-handles or >Martin-Bakers to be pulled accidentally . . .

Yep, that's what they were designed for.

[billvon 2,400]

>Instead of a steel cable reserve ripcord, use suspension line.

Abrasion would be tough to deal with, and it would _really_ suck to have the sharp edge of a grommet cut the line when it was under load.

>If you rotate a round parachute (like a horizontal pin-wheel), you can
> increase the stability -- no oscillations. That would make the jumper
> dizzy, though, wouldn't it? So add a swivel attachment at the base
> of the lines, above the jumper's head.

Swivel links are a standard item in paraglider (round) reserves. The lack of such a link often causes reserve collapses as the paraglider spins and line-twists the reserve.

>Unfortunately, it lack an important feature: slack in the ripcord cable.
> Stretch the harness, open the reserve.

I would argue that this can be mitigated by careful routing of the reserve ripcord such that there is a loop somewhere that can straighten out without loading the pin.

[markbaur 0]

Almost forgot this one, and I bet Jerry Bird wishes everyone had:
the 1974 Jerry Bird rig. Poynter: "The reserve container is locked with a unique Velcro closure system and may be used with or without a pilot chute."

In 1974, Velcro on rigs was all the rage, a valued replacement for snaps and zippers. The Velcro-closed reserve represented the extreme end of Velcro use, and we've been using less and less of the stuff ever since.

Mark

[billvon 2,400]

>The Velcro-closed reserve represented the extreme end of Velcro
> use . . .

At least until BASE jumping became popular.

[narcimund 0]

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The idea of using the pilot chute itself (rather than the slider) to provide the drag to stage openings continues in some ParaFoil accuracy canopies, where the pilot chute is attached to an X-shaped slider which retracts the pilot chute as it descends down the lines during opening.

I had one of those on an old Unit 1 in the mid 80s. It was called a spider slider. Great for crw. Not so good for the top skin of the canopy though. The retracting bridle burned dozens of little tiny holes all over.

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