Reserve repack cycles - 120/180/360 days?

[MarcusV 0]

Please discuss:
Some countries must have their reserve repacked all 120 days, others all 180 days, some all 360 days.
Here in Germany since last November reserves have to be repacked once a year all 360 days by licensed riggers/reserve packers only who also have to inspect the main canopy. You are not allowed anymore to pack your reserve for yourself if you're not licensed to. The big manufacturers say they don't see any argument that would speak against the 360 day repack cycles.
So, what argument is there why reserves have to be repacked all 120 or 180 days? Is it a "money thing"? Habitual? Old laws? ...
Blues Marcus
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I think it's from a safety point of view - a lot can happen to a canopy in a year, and obviously the more you inspect it, the less chance there is of something being wrong when you need it the most.
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[skybytch 259]

In the US repack cycles are mandated by the FAA, a typical bureaucracy. USPA and PIA tried hard to get the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle in the latest FAR update with no luck. It's been 120 days here for at least 20 years...
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

a lot can happen to a canopy in a year, and obviously the more you inspect it, the less chance there is of something being wrong when you need it the most.

The flip side to that is the more you inspect it and handle it the more likely you are to fuck it up and wear the fabric. Something to think about.
Anyhow, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing an extra 60 days tacked on to the repack cycle.
-
Jim

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have thought about a flexable re-pack schedule. Say 180 days until either the reserve or the container are 2 years old, whichever comes first, then 120 days. And the rigger can change it to 120 day- re-pack cycle if the rig is jumped a lot. This puts a conflict of interest (more re-packs=more $) on the rigger, but riggers are supposed to have integrity anyway. And if a riggerr routinely changes the re-pack cycle on rigs to 120 days when it doesn't need to be that way, he will find himself w/ less business.
Hook

[skybytch 259]

I do like the idea of a shorter repack cycle for rigs that see a lot of use. It's not the repacking of the reserve that is important there, it's the inspection that the rigger conducts on the harness/container that I feel is important. Too many jumpers don't take good care of their equipment and lack the knowledge to inspect it themselves.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[MarcusV 0]

Quote

Too many jumpers don't take good care of their equipment and lack the knowledge to inspect it themselves.

Lisa, I think that's too right - but where are the reasons for that? Have we lost our senses of responsibility because we know "it's getting repacked in x days either..."? Or is it a question of training and education? Have instructors to insist on better skills when it comes to maintain/check your rig?
Blues Marcus
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[markbaur 0]

"a flexible re-pack schedule"
Airplanes get an inspection annually (if privately owned) or every 100 hours (if used for hire). I'd go for something similar for parachutes: an annual inspection/repack for personal gear; a 120-day cycle for tandems, student rigs, and rentals.
Mark

[EdDuckwater 0]

I never have my reserve repacked. I just made up a phony name and rigger number and pencil-whip it. Nobody has ever figured it out and Im at one of the biggest dropzones in CA. I really don't see the need for a repack if you never use the reserve.
Ed

[rhino 0]

You can't be serious... I will pretend you didn't make that wacked out statement...
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!
http://www.aahit.com

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Too many jumpers don't take good care of their equipment and lack the knowledge to inspect it themselves.

So because some jumpers aren't bright enough to take care of their own gear we should have to continue to live with a shorter repack cycle?
I think the solution is to educate the jumper, provide him with the information he needs to understand his gear and how it relates to his safety. To suggest that we keep a shorter repack cycle so that a rigger can inspect everyones gear every 120 days, well, that just doesn't sound right.

[skybytch 259]

Quote

but where are the reasons for that?

Good question! And one I don't have many answers for.
For me knowing everything I could about my gear was important so I made an effort to learn - I got a rigger's ticket more for my own knowledge and so I could maintain my own equipment than for making money. When I was actively rigging I had a few customers who it seemed didn't WANT to know anything about their gear other than how to put it on, pull handles and take it off - an attitude that I don't understand.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[skybytch 259]

Quote

So because some jumpers aren't bright enough to take care of their own gear we should have to continue to live with a shorter repack cycle?

Is that what I said? No. I like the idea of a shorter repack cycle for gear that gets jumped a lot and sadly, many jumpers who jump a lot don't take good care of their gear or know how to inspect it. I did not say that every jumper needs to have their reserve I&R'ed every 120 days.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[MarcusV 0]

Quote

customers who it seemed didn't WANT to know anything about their gear other than how to put it on, pull handles and take it off - an attitude that I don't understand.

No shit, that reminds me of that girl at my dz coming along "wooohooo! I just got my brand new rig!". And when I asked what brand it was she said "What the f*** - it's yellow!!!"
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[EdDuckwater 0]

I don't know exactly how the engine works in my car and I really don't care. I am the same way with my rig. I pay a mechanic to know about my car and a rigger....well, I haven't had my gear at a rigger in 3 years but if I needed something I would pay a rigger for their knowledge. I don't care about anyting as long as the handles work. My reserve hasnt been repacked in 3 years but I bet it will work just fine.
Ed

[QuickDraw 0]

Back to school tomorrow eh ? i hate sundays too
If it's got tit's or wheel,s..it's trouble.

[MarcusV 0]

Actually I try not to feed any trolls - however, I guess you are in the wrong forum.
Go here and update-your-brain
Blues Marcus
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[QuickDraw 0]

Point taken i was just amusing myself If it's got tit's or wheel,s..it's trouble.

[riggerrob 558]

Canada went to a 180 day repack cycle a couple of years ago, but Canadian pilots are still on a 120 day repack cycle.
For all practical purposes, most Canadians are on an annual repack cycle.
There is always a mad rush the week before Oshkosh, Reno or a soaring competition to get all the pilot emergency parachutes in date. From a practical point of view, it is unwise to let PEPs go more than 2 years between repacks. Rubber bands rot out after 2 years in hot climates.
I have no complaint about annual repack cycles in a place like Canada with a 5 or 6 month jumping season.
Time is not the issue.
Repacking a reserve does nothing to affect its airworthiness.
It is the 1 hour long inspection that precedes the repack that is important.
Wear and tear is the main concern.
Scheduled inspections are a crude guess at when a problem will become noticable, but not life-threatening. Sport jumpers can probably safely stick to annual repacks, but tandems, student and rental gear should stay on a 100 or 120 repack cycle.
Professional instructors, videographers orf competitors who make 1,000+ jumps per year would be foolish to only do annual inspections. 180 day inspections would also be unwise in that fast-paced environment.
Wear and tear on reserve canopies is insignificant. I have found damage to 1% of the reserve canopies I have repacked. Most of the damage occurs to containers (as it should) and harnesses. The main reason for scheduled repacks is to catch minor damage to harness/containers before it becomes life-threatening. Repack time is also a good time to get any service bulletins or airworthiness directives or updates done.
Since the lines on modern main canopies can stretch/shrink out of trim in as little as 200 jumps, maybe we should insist on annual or 200 jump inspections (whichever comes first) on mains.
In general, annual or 200 jumps inspections - on the complete system - make more sense.

[skybytch 259]

If you just posted the truth, you're a statistic waiting to happen.
If you're just trolling for responses, please post that kind of stuff in Talk Balk. This is the serious area of the forums. Thank you.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[rhino 0]

Sounds like Skybitch threw thw PUNK CARD down!!
BAAAAAMMM!!! Can you feel it!! Can you feel it baby!!! Get some Skybitch!! Motivate me!!!!!
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!
http://www.aahit.com

[sitflyr 0]

I would be uncomfortable with a one-year cycle; but I'd like to see the US go to a 180-day cycle. I think that 180 days is a reasonable amount of time to go between inspections, under normal jumping conditions.

[cloud9 0]

When I first started jumping it was every 60 days so going to 120 was a real blessing. I do think the FAA is worried about pencil packing. Anyone who doesn't think this is going on, has their head in the sand. Its quite common, so many jumpers are already going 240 days. With that in mind I'm not sure that extending the period would be such a great idea.
If you really think about it, every 3 months you give your rig up for a few days at the most and have all your safety equipment checked for about $40, is that so unreasonable?

[eml 0]

a lot would depend on how you care for your rig. If you keep it in the trunk of your car exposed to temp and humidity changes, I would stick to the 4 month cycle. If you take it home and keep it in a controlled environment the yearly one would work. I am not condoning breaking uspa regulations by stating that. I don't go over 6 months because being a life and death situation, I wouldn't want freebag hesitation (which I had with a regular repack) and cypress batteries have been known to leak.

[steve1 5]

I've only been back in the sport a couple years after being out for about 25. When I was packing reserves in the olden days it was every 60 days. Most of us only charged five bucks for a repack so it was no big deal. I couldn't believe it when I found out riggers charged up to $50. for a repack now. I know repacking reserves today is more involved, but with that kind of expense I can see why some people are upset by 180 days. I've got the attitude that whoever decided on 180 days is probably a whole lot wiser than I am and without a doubt, more up to date. So I'm not going to complain. It makes since that something could happen to your reserve while it is packed up. I doubt if riggers want shorter periods just to make money. I know one rigger who only charges $30. for a repack. He doesn't feel right charging his friends more than that. He is a rigger because he likes the work and helping out the people he jumps with. This guy is a veterinarian so I know he doesn't do it for the money.