Emmie 0 #1 February 6, 2002 I recently bought my 1st rig. I got a hornet 170 as a main, its loaded roughly 1:1. I read on another post that people just off student status shouldn't be flying elipticals. Hornets are semi-eliptical, does that mean that I shouldn't jump it right away & rent gigantic student rigs till I have more jumps? Because that would really blow! I heard that Hornets were pretty forgiving, so can anyone that jumps one help me out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #2 February 6, 2002 I'm pretty sure hornets are fine for a first main. I think Freaksister's first main was a hornet and I've seen video of her flying skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 February 6, 2002 A Hornet at that wingload is a perfect first main. Don't let anyone tell you different.My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #4 February 6, 2002 Agreed! At that loading you will love a Hornet/Sabre2/Lotus as a first canopy!I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloud9 0 #5 February 6, 2002 Agreed, I jump a Hornet loaded at about 1.4. I'm sure at a 1.1 wing loading it would be a great beginner canopy and for that matter for a long while.They open nice and soft, they turn quick but not overly so, have good glide for the long spots, and will surf rather nice if you care to give it a try, and have plenty of flare for landing. You'll really like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #6 February 6, 2002 How does a Hornet compare to a Saber? At the current prices for Hornets I am seriously thinking of ordering one. Are the opennings any softer than a Saber. I've heard that some Saber opennings can be quite severe, even when packed properly. Also I'm wondering what size to order. I have about 120 square jumps on a Falcon 195, and about 300 round jumps from years ago (if they count). I know this is a very relative question to ask and I know that I should demo one first, but I think I'll just order one and work into it later if it is too hot for me now. My container would be about maxed out (size wise) with a 170. I hope I didn't ask too many dumb questions. I really appreciate your help. Thanks, Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #7 February 6, 2002 I've never jumped one and we don't sell them where I work, but from everything I've heard a Hornet is a great first zp canopy. With 120 jumps on a Falcon 195, a 170 zp would be the logical next step, steve.btw, the original Sabre sometimes can have hard openings... I haven't heard of anyone having the same problems with a Sabre2 - the newest PD nine cell zp main.pull and flare,lisa--What would Scooby Doo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloud9 0 #8 February 6, 2002 Hey SteveI don't know your wing loading so I can't say about the 170 but I can tell you the comparison.The Hornet opens softer then the sabre. The sabre tends to really spank you every now and then. The Hornet really don't.The Hornet has a better glide ratio then the sabre so its better on the long spots. It has a lot more flare on landing, and it flys longer which means you don't have to run out those landings as much. I think its superior to the sabre. Of course this is with the original Sabre not the Sabre2.Your experience level should allow you to safely jump this canopy at a light wing loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #9 February 6, 2002 Our students start with Manta 290s or Skymaster 290s. After they graudate PFF, they transition to Skymaster 230s. After another dozen jumps they transition to Hornet 190s. When they buy gear it is in the Sabre/Hornet 170 to 150 range.Most of the stories about original Sabres slapping were written by sloppy packers. Fortunately the current generation of Sabre 2/Hornet/Safire are designed to be more forgiving of sloppy packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #10 February 6, 2002 I bought and flew a hornet after getting my A.....It was at 1.1 wing loading....it flew great and was very gentle to me before it got ripped off.....Now I have been renting a sabre 20 square feet smaller and ordered a hornet.....seems to me after jumping both that the sabre is very similar....to the hornet...but the hornet is 400 bucks cheaper...marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #11 February 6, 2002 Quote How does a Hornet compare to a Saber Steve1, I love the Hornet I've been jumping the past 50 or so jumps. I also have about 30 jumps on a Sabre. Personally, I like the way the Hornet opens, but that does have a LOT to do with how you pack. I roll each of the 4 opposite cells into the center cell, and roll the tail, so I get a nice comfy snivelling canopy, although sometimes the end cells are rolled under, but that's no biggy. They fly really similarly, atleast with my experience, but I'm not a Jedi-Knight-canopy-pilot either, so my advice is limited. Yeah, definately demo one, but remember the Hornet IS a knock off of the Sabre, and you can generally pick up used Sabres pretty darn cheap...Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #12 February 6, 2002 No dave.....the Sabre 2 is a knock off of the Hornet....the pisa square they had before was a knock off of the original sabre...Hornet is semi eliptical..New Sabre 2 is also semi eliptical.....the original Sabre is as square as I was in highschool...which is pretty damn straight.......marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #13 February 6, 2002 QuoteIt was at 1.1 wing loadingIs that not too agressive for a new jumper. I'm only asking because I got a Triathalon 160 I'd love to build a rig around, but I'd be loading it at 1.1.Yeah I know the "ask your instructors" yada yada, but I was curious as to whether people thought in general a 1.1 on a docile canopy wasn't too much for a post student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #14 February 6, 2002 Ahhh..you know I had heard that the Sabre 2s flew a whole lot like a Hornet, but I've never jumped one...Thanks for the correction, I try, but I'm not always right. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #15 February 6, 2002 I tell ya what dave...I flew a hornet 210 and a sabre 2 210 on the same day putting 6 jumps on each.....exact same canopy other than A the price differance....and B. the sabre 2 tended to dive just a bit more in front riser carves to final....but not much.....both have higher front riser pressures in my opinion...but not to bad....and both are great fun to fly.....but I have bought a hornet once....and then bought one again...I just couldnt see paying 400 bucks for a PD logo....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kirils 1 #16 February 6, 2002 You have a really nice, well made, reliable canopy. As a new jumper it's important to have confidence in your equipment. Don't let anyony undermine that confidence. Before any equipment purchase, research, talk to experts like Skymonkey and Geoff and others, demo the gear, and have the empirical data to defend your choices. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloud9 0 #17 February 6, 2002 Quote Is that not too agressive for a new jumper. I'm only asking because I got a Triathalon 160 I'd love to build a rig around, but I'd be loading it at 1.1. Hey Mark let me give you a little personal history and it may help you. I had 96 jumps from 1975 to 1976. Most were on round canopies. I had about 20 jumps on a Strato Star a 5 cell square. I just started jumping again in March 2001. I put 3 jumps on a Manta 288, then put two jumps on a Falcon 265. They both sucked so I bought my own gear. A Triathlon 175 loaded at a 1.25 I had no problems at all. The canopy was very forgiving and yet very fun to fly. I could sink it in on a tight spot, or let it fly on a long spot. It had great openings, turn fast enough to be fun and I stood up nearly all my landings even on the no wind days. I'm a pretty average person, I pick things up fairly quick but I'm by no means one of those folks that does something once and is a pro thereafter. So with that in mind I would never tell a person what to do in canopy choice and especially wing loading, but I hope this might help you make an informed decision.I have since downsized to a hornet 150 and am very happy with that canopy too. But I really did love my triathlon.Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #18 February 6, 2002 Alright, thanks Larry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #19 February 6, 2002 I started jumping a Hornet 190 on about my 50th jump, with about a 1.1 wing loading. I have no complaints about it at all. It was a good canopy for my conservative flying and I got down to the ground in one piece for the next 70 jumps.Now, I am jumping a Sabre 2 170. I do find it to be a little more responsive for me, but I'm not sure if that has to do with the canopy, or the fact that it is smaller and now a 1.0 wingload. I didn't have anything against buying a Hornet again (and I really would like to have those color coded lines). I mostly bought the Sabre 2 because I jump in Deland, and I can get all sorts of advice on how to fly it and get all my questions answered really easily from the PD guys who jump there.By the way, my Hornet is up for sale if anyone is interested! AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #20 February 7, 2002 I just priced a Hornet 170. They're something like $575. (new and in custom colors). Freight to the U.S. is another $70. WHAT A DEAL! I might not have to rob a liquor store after all. I'm sorry to think of buying from the competition, Lisa. But....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kirils 1 #21 February 7, 2002 PD won't admit it. When I visited PD in Dec., I asked John face to face if they copied, evaluated or benchmarked other manufacture's canopies. He emphatically said "NO", all designs were originals.Well Ned at PISA say's the Sabre 2 is a Hornet copy. I have a tendency to believe Ned . It is a copy of the Hornet (communication 11-12-01) The Hornet is one damn fine canopy and I don't blame PD for the duplication...now if they could do something about the price... Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dutchboy 0 #22 February 7, 2002 Wow, where did you get that price? I was happy to get mine for < $900. Of course, that was over a year ago.As a side note, I love my Hornet 190. I have about 130 jumps on it now.The DutchboyCFI, CFII, AGI, IGIhttp://www.philsflying.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MiataDRM 0 #23 February 8, 2002 WOW...Great price! Are you sure it's not a price quote for a Tempo reserve? My DZ has Hornets in some of the student rigs. I started jumping the Hornet 190 after my 9th jump. After graduating from AFF I got a Hornet 170. The canopy is great & the price is just right. I've demo'ed the Saber 2, it flies very similar...the only difference is that you are able to swoop further & the canopy dives a slight steeper angle on the risers. For my level, the extra $$$ was not worth it...& I love my Hornet :-) **I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #24 February 8, 2002 Funny thing... Brian Germain's Lotus is almost a Hornet and almost a Sabre2 It's kinda inbetween them, but the thing has airlocks so its really rigid overhead. Brian and PD were both working on the design at seperate sides of the country and for the desired results came up with nearly the same canopy. The trim is different on the Lotus, but the design was in the works for years.There are 1000's of possible designs out there, but when everyone wants the same end resulting type of canopy.... all the designs are going to be close.Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #25 February 8, 2002 I know the price sounds too good to be true. Apparently the British rand (whatever that is) isn't worth as much now and the American dollar is worth more in South Africa right now. I read a post from a lady in U.K. who turned me on to this web site. The price I was quoted for a new Hornet 170 was $575. I tried to phone in my order this morning. The easiest way is to fax things back and forth. I plan to do that tomorrow. Freight is around $70. to the states. Custom colors take 4 to 6 weeks. The web-site is www.icarus.co.za... You can't buy a good used canopy for this price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
MarkM 0 #2 February 6, 2002 I'm pretty sure hornets are fine for a first main. I think Freaksister's first main was a hornet and I've seen video of her flying skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 February 6, 2002 A Hornet at that wingload is a perfect first main. Don't let anyone tell you different.My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 February 6, 2002 Agreed! At that loading you will love a Hornet/Sabre2/Lotus as a first canopy!I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #5 February 6, 2002 Agreed, I jump a Hornet loaded at about 1.4. I'm sure at a 1.1 wing loading it would be a great beginner canopy and for that matter for a long while.They open nice and soft, they turn quick but not overly so, have good glide for the long spots, and will surf rather nice if you care to give it a try, and have plenty of flare for landing. You'll really like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #6 February 6, 2002 How does a Hornet compare to a Saber? At the current prices for Hornets I am seriously thinking of ordering one. Are the opennings any softer than a Saber. I've heard that some Saber opennings can be quite severe, even when packed properly. Also I'm wondering what size to order. I have about 120 square jumps on a Falcon 195, and about 300 round jumps from years ago (if they count). I know this is a very relative question to ask and I know that I should demo one first, but I think I'll just order one and work into it later if it is too hot for me now. My container would be about maxed out (size wise) with a 170. I hope I didn't ask too many dumb questions. I really appreciate your help. Thanks, Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #7 February 6, 2002 I've never jumped one and we don't sell them where I work, but from everything I've heard a Hornet is a great first zp canopy. With 120 jumps on a Falcon 195, a 170 zp would be the logical next step, steve.btw, the original Sabre sometimes can have hard openings... I haven't heard of anyone having the same problems with a Sabre2 - the newest PD nine cell zp main.pull and flare,lisa--What would Scooby Doo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #8 February 6, 2002 Hey SteveI don't know your wing loading so I can't say about the 170 but I can tell you the comparison.The Hornet opens softer then the sabre. The sabre tends to really spank you every now and then. The Hornet really don't.The Hornet has a better glide ratio then the sabre so its better on the long spots. It has a lot more flare on landing, and it flys longer which means you don't have to run out those landings as much. I think its superior to the sabre. Of course this is with the original Sabre not the Sabre2.Your experience level should allow you to safely jump this canopy at a light wing loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 February 6, 2002 Our students start with Manta 290s or Skymaster 290s. After they graudate PFF, they transition to Skymaster 230s. After another dozen jumps they transition to Hornet 190s. When they buy gear it is in the Sabre/Hornet 170 to 150 range.Most of the stories about original Sabres slapping were written by sloppy packers. Fortunately the current generation of Sabre 2/Hornet/Safire are designed to be more forgiving of sloppy packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 February 6, 2002 I bought and flew a hornet after getting my A.....It was at 1.1 wing loading....it flew great and was very gentle to me before it got ripped off.....Now I have been renting a sabre 20 square feet smaller and ordered a hornet.....seems to me after jumping both that the sabre is very similar....to the hornet...but the hornet is 400 bucks cheaper...marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 February 6, 2002 Quote How does a Hornet compare to a Saber Steve1, I love the Hornet I've been jumping the past 50 or so jumps. I also have about 30 jumps on a Sabre. Personally, I like the way the Hornet opens, but that does have a LOT to do with how you pack. I roll each of the 4 opposite cells into the center cell, and roll the tail, so I get a nice comfy snivelling canopy, although sometimes the end cells are rolled under, but that's no biggy. They fly really similarly, atleast with my experience, but I'm not a Jedi-Knight-canopy-pilot either, so my advice is limited. Yeah, definately demo one, but remember the Hornet IS a knock off of the Sabre, and you can generally pick up used Sabres pretty darn cheap...Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #12 February 6, 2002 No dave.....the Sabre 2 is a knock off of the Hornet....the pisa square they had before was a knock off of the original sabre...Hornet is semi eliptical..New Sabre 2 is also semi eliptical.....the original Sabre is as square as I was in highschool...which is pretty damn straight.......marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #13 February 6, 2002 QuoteIt was at 1.1 wing loadingIs that not too agressive for a new jumper. I'm only asking because I got a Triathalon 160 I'd love to build a rig around, but I'd be loading it at 1.1.Yeah I know the "ask your instructors" yada yada, but I was curious as to whether people thought in general a 1.1 on a docile canopy wasn't too much for a post student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 February 6, 2002 Ahhh..you know I had heard that the Sabre 2s flew a whole lot like a Hornet, but I've never jumped one...Thanks for the correction, I try, but I'm not always right. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #15 February 6, 2002 I tell ya what dave...I flew a hornet 210 and a sabre 2 210 on the same day putting 6 jumps on each.....exact same canopy other than A the price differance....and B. the sabre 2 tended to dive just a bit more in front riser carves to final....but not much.....both have higher front riser pressures in my opinion...but not to bad....and both are great fun to fly.....but I have bought a hornet once....and then bought one again...I just couldnt see paying 400 bucks for a PD logo....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #16 February 6, 2002 You have a really nice, well made, reliable canopy. As a new jumper it's important to have confidence in your equipment. Don't let anyony undermine that confidence. Before any equipment purchase, research, talk to experts like Skymonkey and Geoff and others, demo the gear, and have the empirical data to defend your choices. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #17 February 6, 2002 Quote Is that not too agressive for a new jumper. I'm only asking because I got a Triathalon 160 I'd love to build a rig around, but I'd be loading it at 1.1. Hey Mark let me give you a little personal history and it may help you. I had 96 jumps from 1975 to 1976. Most were on round canopies. I had about 20 jumps on a Strato Star a 5 cell square. I just started jumping again in March 2001. I put 3 jumps on a Manta 288, then put two jumps on a Falcon 265. They both sucked so I bought my own gear. A Triathlon 175 loaded at a 1.25 I had no problems at all. The canopy was very forgiving and yet very fun to fly. I could sink it in on a tight spot, or let it fly on a long spot. It had great openings, turn fast enough to be fun and I stood up nearly all my landings even on the no wind days. I'm a pretty average person, I pick things up fairly quick but I'm by no means one of those folks that does something once and is a pro thereafter. So with that in mind I would never tell a person what to do in canopy choice and especially wing loading, but I hope this might help you make an informed decision.I have since downsized to a hornet 150 and am very happy with that canopy too. But I really did love my triathlon.Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #18 February 6, 2002 Alright, thanks Larry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #19 February 6, 2002 I started jumping a Hornet 190 on about my 50th jump, with about a 1.1 wing loading. I have no complaints about it at all. It was a good canopy for my conservative flying and I got down to the ground in one piece for the next 70 jumps.Now, I am jumping a Sabre 2 170. I do find it to be a little more responsive for me, but I'm not sure if that has to do with the canopy, or the fact that it is smaller and now a 1.0 wingload. I didn't have anything against buying a Hornet again (and I really would like to have those color coded lines). I mostly bought the Sabre 2 because I jump in Deland, and I can get all sorts of advice on how to fly it and get all my questions answered really easily from the PD guys who jump there.By the way, my Hornet is up for sale if anyone is interested! AndreaThe brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #20 February 7, 2002 I just priced a Hornet 170. They're something like $575. (new and in custom colors). Freight to the U.S. is another $70. WHAT A DEAL! I might not have to rob a liquor store after all. I'm sorry to think of buying from the competition, Lisa. But....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #21 February 7, 2002 PD won't admit it. When I visited PD in Dec., I asked John face to face if they copied, evaluated or benchmarked other manufacture's canopies. He emphatically said "NO", all designs were originals.Well Ned at PISA say's the Sabre 2 is a Hornet copy. I have a tendency to believe Ned . It is a copy of the Hornet (communication 11-12-01) The Hornet is one damn fine canopy and I don't blame PD for the duplication...now if they could do something about the price... Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutchboy 0 #22 February 7, 2002 Wow, where did you get that price? I was happy to get mine for < $900. Of course, that was over a year ago.As a side note, I love my Hornet 190. I have about 130 jumps on it now.The DutchboyCFI, CFII, AGI, IGIhttp://www.philsflying.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiataDRM 0 #23 February 8, 2002 WOW...Great price! Are you sure it's not a price quote for a Tempo reserve? My DZ has Hornets in some of the student rigs. I started jumping the Hornet 190 after my 9th jump. After graduating from AFF I got a Hornet 170. The canopy is great & the price is just right. I've demo'ed the Saber 2, it flies very similar...the only difference is that you are able to swoop further & the canopy dives a slight steeper angle on the risers. For my level, the extra $$$ was not worth it...& I love my Hornet :-) **I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #24 February 8, 2002 Funny thing... Brian Germain's Lotus is almost a Hornet and almost a Sabre2 It's kinda inbetween them, but the thing has airlocks so its really rigid overhead. Brian and PD were both working on the design at seperate sides of the country and for the desired results came up with nearly the same canopy. The trim is different on the Lotus, but the design was in the works for years.There are 1000's of possible designs out there, but when everyone wants the same end resulting type of canopy.... all the designs are going to be close.Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #25 February 8, 2002 I know the price sounds too good to be true. Apparently the British rand (whatever that is) isn't worth as much now and the American dollar is worth more in South Africa right now. I read a post from a lady in U.K. who turned me on to this web site. The price I was quoted for a new Hornet 170 was $575. I tried to phone in my order this morning. The easiest way is to fax things back and forth. I plan to do that tomorrow. Freight is around $70. to the states. Custom colors take 4 to 6 weeks. The web-site is www.icarus.co.za... You can't buy a good used canopy for this price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
