DougH 270 #26 October 6, 2012 Quote I really do not understand how this video made it out of the DZ. Not just the raw footage... but an edited video that made it into the hands of the student. It is actually really easy to understand, the DZO, Vidiot, Editor.... are all a buch of retards."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky4meplease 0 #27 October 6, 2012 This is scary. The FAA doesn't know what a good skydiving exit is let alone a good tandem skydive exit. When you strap two body's together one with no skydiving experience and throw them out of an airplane at 100 knots its anyone's guess what will happen. In my opinion every tandem harness needs a y strap and if we don't self regulate the FAA will regulate for us. It was unfortunate that Grandma was pushing one way and her TI was pushing the other and the harness she was wearing allowed her to nearly slide out. This was a gear issue and not a harness adjustment issue or a negligent TI. To my knowledge the FAA did not issue fines in tandem fatalities where the student did fall out of the harness. The FAA is off base here and if we're not careful this will only be the beginning.Overkill is under rated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #28 October 6, 2012 QuoteThis was a gear issue and not a harness adjustment issue or a negligent TI. Bullshit! 100 fucking % BULLSHIT!!! QuoteThe FAA is off base here and if we're not careful this will only be the beginning. Yea? you just wait till you see whats next......you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #29 October 6, 2012 QuoteIn my opinion every tandem harness needs a y strap and if we don't self regulate the FAA will regulate for us. My personal tandem harness doesn't have a Y-strap and I have managed to not drop anyone..."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #30 October 6, 2012 Is it just me or does the video seem to show the leg straps hanging loosely around her thighs as if they were not cinched up at all?In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #31 October 6, 2012 Quote When you strap two body's together one with no skydiving experience and throw them out of an airplane at 100 knots its anyone's guess what will happen. I know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. Quote This was a gear issue and not a harness adjustment issue or a negligent TI How is it possible you have a tandem rating and think the above two things?? “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #32 October 6, 2012 QuoteThis is scary. It was unfortunate that Grandma was pushing one way and her TI was pushing the other and the harness she was wearing allowed her to nearly slide out. This was a gear issue and not a harness adjustment issue or a negligent TI. Horseshit. It was a negligent instructor, with poor harness adjustment and a bad case of get out the dooritus. He had to push Granny out that door, go go go, instead of paying attention to her. He couldn't possibly have been observant about the exit or his student because his head was up his ass at the time."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #33 October 6, 2012 So, after reading all the replies, only one other person has mentioned the need for a "Y" line on the harness. I can't say this in any stronger way: THIS INCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED BY THE USE OF A "Y" LINE. . All other factors aside, a "Y" line would have kept the leg straps in place and we never would have heard of the ensuing jump. That being said, I have never been more glad to be a former TI.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 October 6, 2012 QuoteSo, after reading all the replies, only one other person has mentioned the need for a "Y" line on the harness. I can't say this in any stronger way: THIS INCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED BY THE USE OF A "Y" LINE. . All other factors aside, a "Y" line would have kept the leg straps in place and we never would have heard of the ensuing jump. Yes, however, that is simply a band-aid fix on a TI who improperly adjusted the harness and created a significant safety concern that has now resulted (outside of the possibility of the loss of life) in the FAA latching on to our sport with both hands. This incident would have never of happened if the TI had done what he was supposed to have done.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #35 October 6, 2012 Well, the FAA has not "latched on to our sport with both hands". I have been told more than once by more than three high level FSDO operators that if the FAA is forced to regulate or otherwise supervise skydiving, they will simply ban it as they have no resources to do that. I believe them, they were irritated enough that they had to get involved in administering rigger ratings. They would rather we go away so they can Marshall the rest of their staff to deal with the airlines and GA airport issues.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #36 October 7, 2012 QuoteI have been told more than once by more than three high level FSDO operators that if the FAA is forced to regulate or otherwise supervise skydiving, they will simply ban it as they have no resources to do that. I believe them, they were irritated enough that they had to get involved in administering rigger ratings. They would rather we go away so they can Marshall the rest of their staff to deal with the airlines and GA airport issues. For yrs I would have believed your statement. However, did you read the proposed changes to AC 150/5300-13 and the study that went in to it by the FAA? Did you read that part about filing an application with the FAA for permission for skydiving and how getting that permission might take months, along with a few other layers of red tape and hoop jumping that all requires additional levels of service by many levels of the FAA, even the FSDO inspectors. These proposed changes are pending and it's only a matter of time till we find out if any changes were made or not, when ever it's published by the FAA. For an agency that is so "broke" they sure got a lot of tax payer cash to waste.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #37 October 7, 2012 Quote Quote In my opinion every tandem harness needs a y strap and if we don't self regulate the FAA will regulate for us. My personal tandem harness doesn't have a Y-strap and I have managed to not drop anyone... For the most part you seem a reasonable, intelligent guy Robert. Are you seriously going to stand by that statement as a reason to not get the "Y mod"You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 October 7, 2012 Yeah. I'll buy that too.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #39 October 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote In my opinion every tandem harness needs a y strap and if we don't self regulate the FAA will regulate for us. My personal tandem harness doesn't have a Y-strap and I have managed to not drop anyone... For the most part you seem a reasonable, intelligent guy Robert. Are you seriously going to stand by that statement as a reason to not get the "Y mod" If you adjust the harness correctly and don't cave to the pressure to take body types that should NOT be going skydiving them you never need the y-mod. Leaving out disabled tandems who certainly need one, the y-mod is designed for lazy instructors, and out of shape pear shaped students. No one has ever fallen from a properly adjusted harness."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #40 October 7, 2012 QuoteI have been told more than once by more than three high level FSDO operators that ... Kevin, what is a "high level FSDO operator"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #41 October 7, 2012 Quote [If you adjust the harness correctly and don't cave to the pressure to take body types that should NOT be going skydiving them you never need the y-mod. . So you advocate a system that needs everything done right in place of a mod that will help prevent things going wrong.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #42 October 7, 2012 Quote Quote [If you adjust the harness correctly and don't cave to the pressure to take body types that should NOT be going skydiving them you never need the y-mod. . So you advocate a system that needs everything done right in place of a mod that will help prevent things going wrong. Next you're going to say that every aircraft should be required to be equipped with a BRS."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpastniner 0 #43 October 7, 2012 But why not? It is really cheap insurance. (a lot cheaper than a BRS!)BASE 1384 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #44 October 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote [If you adjust the harness correctly and don't cave to the pressure to take body types that should NOT be going skydiving them you never need the y-mod. . So you advocate a system that needs everything done right in place of a mod that will help prevent things going wrong. Next you're going to say that every aircraft should be required to be equipped with a BRS. I understand what you're saying Ski, when I was a TI there was no Y mod and I never lost a passenger. Nor did anyone else at that time. If used correctly the harness works fine as originally designed. ~ However ~ I light of the fact there HAVE been instances of fatalities because of improper adjustment that had the Y mod been there, would most certainly have been prevented... It's only prudent to have it in place regardless of how meticulous you are to detail. God forbid something 'should' happen that this 'fix' could have prevented, and you were knowingly using a harness that doesn't have it ~ you've set yourself up for literally a lifetime of no paddle going up shit creek. At the very least, your not having it could possibly be used by a sharp mouthpiece in a civil case to show ongoing careless disregard toward nominal safety practices. It has less to do with your competency as a Tandem Instructor and everything to do with covering your ass. Be smart & protect yourself and everything you ever hope to have & do. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #45 October 8, 2012 For starters, the chief of the Balt. FSDO. ( 1998 )Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #46 October 8, 2012 QuoteFor starters, the chief of the Balt. FSDO. ( 1998 ) Does that mean he is no longer in the position? or has been in the position SINCE 1998? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #47 October 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote [If you adjust the harness correctly and don't cave to the pressure to take body types that should NOT be going skydiving them you never need the y-mod. . So you advocate a system that needs everything done right in place of a mod that will help prevent things going wrong. Next you're going to say that every aircraft should be required to be equipped with a BRS. No Im not. and your current attitude is leading me to think I may have been incorrect in my previous assumption about you. We are talking about a VERY SIMPLE VERY INEXPENSIVE, modification to improve on a current system. You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky4meplease 0 #48 October 8, 2012 QuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. That is what you call complacency.Overkill is under rated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #49 October 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. That is what you call complacency. No it's not it's called (PPPPPP) prior planning to prevent piss poor performance.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtiflyer 0 #50 October 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. I strive and hope that happens. But I also know sometimes the student gets the better of you even if you do everything right. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Squeak 17 #49 October 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. That is what you call complacency. No it's not it's called (PPPPPP) prior planning to prevent piss poor performance.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtiflyer 0 #50 October 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. I strive and hope that happens. But I also know sometimes the student gets the better of you even if you do everything right. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jtiflyer 0 #50 October 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know exactly what's gonna happen when I do a tandem...a nice stable exit and the drogue out in 3-5 seconds. I strive and hope that happens. But I also know sometimes the student gets the better of you even if you do everything right. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
