Tandem policy

[RafaelYP 0]

Hi, I have a question.
Event: the TI pulls one main handle and lost it simultaneously with the drogue, and then open the main without freefall.
The passenger did not realize.
The jump was with video.
What you do?
Repeat the jump for free, say nothing, do not give the video, explain what happened...
The TI get money for his job?
Thanks for your answers.
Blues skies

[davelepka 4]

Do you mean that the TI accidentally pulled a drouge release at the same time he deployed the drouge? So the drouge worked like a pilot chute and opened the main right away?

If so, you refund the customer for the video, and provide them with the footage from in the plane, the exit, and the landing, all for free.

The TI does not get paid, his pay goes to pay the video guy.

[toolbox 0]

!00% right on ,if the instructor pulled the realease or left the handle floating on exit(lack of handles check prior to exit).

[AHoyThere 0]

Just a little change in the cause.

What if the packer did not attach the drogue correctly? So when the TI threw the drogue, it acted like a pilot chute. And the main deployed right away.

No fault of the TI. But the passenger still got almost no freefall and very almost no freefall video.

Now what do you do?

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

Do you mean that the TI accidentally pulled a drouge release at the same time he deployed the drouge? So the drouge worked like a pilot chute and opened the main right away?

If so, you refund the customer for the video, and provide them with the footage from in the plane, the exit, and the landing, all for free.

The TI does not get paid, his pay goes to pay the video guy.

I would rather give the customer another jump free of charge, complete with video. Better customer service, imho.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[TheCaptain 2]

Quote

Just a little change in the cause.

What if the packer did not attach the drogue correctly? So when the TI threw the drogue, it acted like a pilot chute. And the main deployed right away.

No fault of the TI. But the passenger still got almost no freefall and very almost no freefall video.

Now what do you do?

It is always the TI's responsibility to gear check the rig before donning it and on a proper gear check something of that nature would be caught

Kirk
He's dead Jim

[robinheid 0]

Quote

Quote

Do you mean that the TI accidentally pulled a drouge release at the same time he deployed the drouge? So the drouge worked like a pilot chute and opened the main right away?

If so, you refund the customer for the video, and provide them with the footage from in the plane, the exit, and the landing, all for free.

The TI does not get paid, his pay goes to pay the video guy.

I would rather give the customer another jump free of charge, complete with video. Better customer service, imho.

We have a winner!

Any other answer flunks Customer Service 101.

44

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[toolbox 0]

Would you not catch that on a gear check?
With non sigma you have to check the rings and cables along with the loop.
You should always do a good gear check prior to donning the rig(Harness,AAD,three ring release,rsl,reserve cable pin and closing loop,handles,drogue release system,bridle routing,main pin and closing loop).Did I miss anything?

[toolbox 0]

How is he bones? He's dead Jim!

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

What if the packer did not attach the drogue correctly? So when the TI threw the drogue, it acted like a pilot chute. And the main deployed right away.

Now what do you do?

Fire the packer.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[RafaelYP 0]

In this case the drogue mainteined in the bubble, when the TI feel the fabric in his arm, pushed it and the handle too.
Thank you very much.

[stayhigh 2]

So in your theory, in case of cutaway passenger pays double????

Minor mal function do happen time to time.

It was still a jump.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[davelepka 4]

Quote

So in your theory, in case of cutaway passenger pays double????

Minor mal function do happen time to time.

It was still a jump.

No, my theory was that the TI made a mistake, and that mistake made it impossible for the video guy to deliver his product.

The passenger recieved a jump, and like you said, sometimes things go wrong, but they did exit the aircraft and were delivered safely to the ground.

The video, however, became an impossibility, and the cost should be refunded to the customer. Seeing that the video guys pay is included in that, and through no fault of his own that pay is being refunded to the customer, you could look to who is at fault. In this case it's the TI, so he should cover the video guy's pay for the jump.

As others have stated, a complete rejump w/ video is the best option customer service-wise, but then that brings up a whole new host of problems. Who covers the three slots from the rejump? Now the video guy has to make two jumps, and only gets paid for one (again, through no fault of his own)? Is there time in the day or schedule to get both instructors to jump again?

There's a ceratin degree of 'shit happens' in skydiving. In my solution, the customer pays for and gets a skydive (albeit somewhat modified) and also takes home a free video/stills of the plane ride, exit and landing. The video guy gets paid for doing his job, and the TI has to settle for a 'freebie' due to his mistake.

[piisfish 135]

Quote

Quote

What if the packer did not attach the drogue correctly? So when the TI threw the drogue, it acted like a pilot chute. And the main deployed right away.

Now what do you do?

Fire the packer.

or the rigger which directly supervised him

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[dragon2 0]

I had something like that happened when I was videoing a jump, last season.

The tandem opened right after exit, flew over me, it looked good except for half a twist and I... pulled too, out of reflex to save the video.

The TM got down to my level and I shot a couple thousand feet of canopy flight + their landing. That passenger was over the moon; he had wanted to do a SL jump anyway and he got to steer a lot too this jump

I got paid for my jump, I would expect to get paid as this was not my fault in any way. I do not know if the TM got paid.

We agreed to not give him the video. I did give the passenger some of the under-canopy photos as they were really cool and he got a voucher for another tandemjump + video. I had manifest amend that voucher to include the option of a SL course if he wanted to do that instead

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[riggerrob 561]

Just to "stir the &^%$#@!" ...
If the TI was wearing a camera on his wrist, he could record the entire skydive!
Hah!
Hah!

[scrub 0]

fire the T\I he did not do a good gear check

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth

[DougH 270]

In my opinion, the DZO or club should bear the cost of a re-jump with video.

Mistakes happen. If the tandem instructor needs to be retrained retrain him. If the tandem instructor isn't the right stuff fire him. But at the end of the day the instructor is an employee.

When things are going great the instructor only gets his pay, he doesn't get a cut of the profit the DZO makes.

If you own a business you get all the rewards when things are going great, but you also bear the cost of when your employees drop the ball.

I don't like hearing about packers that are made to pay for cutaways, or other costs that are being passed on to employees.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Just a little change in the cause.

What if the packer did not attach the drogue correctly? So when the TI threw the drogue, it acted like a pilot chute. And the main deployed right away.

No fault of the TI. Wrong, the T-I is at fault for not catching the mistake in his pre-flight. But the passenger still got almost no freefall and very almost no freefall video.

Now what do you do?

See Dave's response above.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Mickochet 0]

Scrub, It was not a gear check problem. If you read his post it says that the drouge caught in the burble and when he felt it on his arm he pulled the drouge release as he was pushing the drouge away.


"In this case the drogue mainteined in the bubble, when the TI feel the fabric in his arm, pushed it and the handle too.
Thank you very much. "

If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough.

[davelepka 4]

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Scrub, It was not a gear check problem. If you read his post it says that the drouge caught in the burble and when he felt it on his arm he pulled the drouge release as he was pushing the drouge away.

Ok, so it was a gear operation problem. In the end, the TIs action made it impossible for the video guy to deliver his product, so what do you do?

How about this one, let's say the video guy likes to tuck his arms behind his back on exit to help him slide down the hill faster. On this jump, the swoop cord of his camera wing gets caught on his PC, and when he brings his arms out, he deploys his main canopy and the tandem pair falls away from him. Now there's no video, what do you do?

I would suggest you refund the cost of the video to the customer, including the video guys pay. He made a mistake, he did not do the job he was assigned to do, and there's a consequnece for that, in this case it's not being paid.

I would also suggest that the same is true for the TI. He had a job to do, and did not do it properly. The TI was lucky that when he unintentionally pulled the drouge release, nothing bad happened, but the fact remains that 'accidentally' pulling any handle is a bad deal, and the location and management of all the handles is a large part of the TIs job.

Working as a 'professional' jumper includes a performance requirement. You have to be able to do the job to certain level, or you shoudn't be doing the job at all. Some of that surrounds the safety of all invovled (of course), but some of that also involves being able to be a part of the DZ 'machine', that being the staff of packers, pilots, manifest, instructors and video guys who are all working together to get all of the work done before the sun goes down.

It's not an office job where incomplete paperwork can sit on your desk until tomorrow, customers that don't jump the day they show up may not be able to return for weeks, or months, or may never return.

You have to be able to perform, or there are consequnces.

[douwanto 22]

I have seen nothing that says for sure the TI pulled the handle or missed the hookup on gear check. and.....................




Sometimes the students pull the handle when they leave the plane...

What happens then???? give them the video and pay both instructor and video guy if there was one...

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421