Spike 0 #1 February 9, 2005 Well? PM me if you want my vote? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 9, 2005 Yup, I've done around 20 jumps that way since I've become a rated TI. I know at the very least I can reach every handle on the rig (w/o using chicken handles) so worst case I can dump the reserve or even if I have to, toss the drogue, etc. Not to mention I know if the harness is on correctly or not, and if the hooks/snaps are connected and if the laterals are tightened down enough. However, many things can go wrong with a TI in training, so if he/she wraps us up in the drogue bridle...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #3 February 9, 2005 Not sure if this is what you mean, but I've done one tandem with a new TM. Here at least you need 6 jumps with licensed jumpers before you can take a "real" tandem passenger. Also did some jumps with TM's who either were test jumping a new canopy or lineset change or were not current enough for "real" tandem passengers (after the winter). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #4 February 9, 2005 Did one, had a cutaway, and would still do it again . . . as long as I trust the TM-in-training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,053 #5 February 9, 2005 Others did it for me when I was in training; I owe it to others who need it while they're in training.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #6 February 10, 2005 It is only fair to give back to those who gave to me. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #7 February 10, 2005 Yes and no. Yes, maybe if I ever go for an IE rating. No, not for free anymore. I've done 27 and while they were fun for a while.......---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #8 February 10, 2005 Yes, why not. Did some while I was in training for TM myself (The examiner told me I 'm the perfect passenger size) Of course only if I trust the TM that needs qualification. (I do not jump with videomen I do not trust either) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LukeOliver 0 #9 February 10, 2005 Done a few, will probably do a few more. Who knows, might even learn something - about the candidate, sure, maybe not the process. I'd hope we don't invent anything too new along the way. L. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #10 February 10, 2005 QuoteOthers did it for me when I was in training; I owe it to others who need it while they're in training. Ditto I had to take Aggiedave when i went back for a re-currency once. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #11 February 10, 2005 Every spring I do 2 or 3 jumps strapped to the front of TIs who got rusty over the winter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 22 #12 February 11, 2005 did some, would (and most probably will) do it again - although i won't repeat some of the things i did during the jumps and under canopy The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #13 February 11, 2005 I've been on the front once, and that was to get my rating. I really disliked it. Having no responbility for safety other than body position was not a fun thing, for me. If a person I trusted was getting their rating, and needed a big passenger and nobody else was around, I'd do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #14 February 12, 2005 I've done so many and will keep doing it. It's fun. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spike 0 #15 February 12, 2005 Here's my story and why I posted the question. Very, very newly rated. During TI training I and my instructor experienced a mal. We're both still alive and I have the rating so I guess I did the right thing. I also experienced a side spin. Partly down to the passengers body position, but also to my poor presentation and a feeble attempt to outfly my passenger. Luckily I was drogue side up and recognised instantly the nature of the problem and a few seconds later that I was not going to be able to fly us out of the spin. Quite frankly I found the sidespin the most frightening experience of my skydiving career. However I took a deep breath, saddled up and got back on with the job. It didn't kill me and I won't make that mistake again (I hope). But it did make me realise that as a newly qualified TM I was severely low on experience. This got me to thinking about the level of risk and people's awareness of risk. I too as an A+ licenced jumper have done several qualification jumps to help out newbie TM candidates get thier rating. However its only now that I've done the TM course that I realise the additional complexities and risks of a TM jump. Add to that the low experience level and your into a whole new danger zone. I'm not just talking about the freefall dangers either. Those canopies just don't fly like the sport rig that you (as a sport jumper) have spent hundreds of jumps getting used to. And the landing approach techniques, straight in/stall surge/turn to stand up, slide in or running/nose plant are again quite different to sport rig landing techniques. However as Aggie, said, as a rated TM, I now have the confidence to know I could at least help in most situations. If you don't have a TM rating and your on a qualification jump with a student TM. Don't fu€k around, arch hard and do what your told. Your TM pilot is probably nervous enough as it is and no-ones joking when they say a TM's work rate is high enough as it is. Gosh that sounds overly negative, just understand, whether your TM rated or not, a Tandem is not just another jump! I voted TM rated yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #16 February 12, 2005 If you don't have a TM rating and your on a qualification jump with a student TM. Don't fu€k around, arch hard and do what your told. Your TM pilot is probably nervous enough as it is and no-ones joking when they say a TM's work rate is high enough as it is. Gosh that sounds overly negative, just understand, whether your TM rated or not, a Tandem is not just another jump! I voted TM rated yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point. Jumping on the front of a newly-rated TI does not give you a license to release your inner a&&hole. At worst, that attitude can kill you both. Reminds me of a refresher dive I did years ago. After a couple of years away from tandems, I did a refresher dive with a senior TI strapped to my chest. He thoroughly enjoyed sticking his legs in a variety of weird positions and doing everything he possibly could to destabilize us. I stopped all of his spins and pulled all the right handles at the right altitudes and lost respect for him. Far too few skydiving instructors understand the difference between military screening methods and civilian teaching methods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #17 February 12, 2005 Tandem rated and voted yes. Although, since I'm a weekend warrior in the UK I'm unlikely to be asked to. In the UK, Tandem courses are held during the week, over four days (plus one for weather). Even with the UK's abysmal weather it is usually possible to do the minimum of 9 (maximum of 12) jumps for the course in that time. If a candidate is unable to complete the jumps due to weather, they are evaluated at their home dropzone by an local examiner if one is present or by video if not. I can't remember the last time I saw this happen at my dropzone and I jump at one of the busiest dropzones in the UK. Due to lack of enthusiasm and the mid-week course it is normally quite difficult to find someone to go on the front. The most prepared candidates from the more communal dropzones turn up with a team (a packer, a cameraman and a 'student') to make the most of the weather and speed through the course. Without available people we normally have to rely on the other candidates on the course. That is what happend to me. Woof went on the front of me for my first live jump and I returned the favour on the next jump. This can slow down the course quite considerably so it is very much appreciated when others help out. I'm still very grateful to Robin for helping out on mine. So, yes I would. I needed other people to do it for me so I would do it for others. Just another way of giving back to the sport. Colin, are your jump numbers uptodate in your profile? If not, which dropzone/country did you get your rating(s)?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiver30960 0 #18 February 13, 2005 Five different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Elvisio "it's all good" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #19 February 14, 2005 QuoteFive different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Good to know. I'll prolly got for my tandem rating this year or next. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #20 February 14, 2005 QuoteFive different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Agreed, and I have for a handful of TI's. I don't like being on the front but I'll do it. It does make me appreciate the Sigma harness though, as the ones I did on the Sigma harness I felt fine, but the ones I did on Stong made me feel nauseous. But I have said no to some because I did not feel safe with the TI in training. And I think the TICD's are the real gutsy ones. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #21 February 14, 2005 This is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Canuck 0 #22 February 14, 2005 It would be interesting to know how many of the people who have voted yes did a tandem for their first jump or somewhere during their student progression. As for me - not a freaken chance! Tandems scare the shit out of me! Never done one, never will! I have, however, helped with IAD courses by playing student allowing people who have never made a dispatch in their life to toss my pc. I guess it's all what you're use to. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #23 February 14, 2005 I never had done a tandem until I had a couple of hundred jumps and decided to help out someone going for their TI. Unfortunately this asshat tried to kill us when he dumped the drogue after not being stable (read: we were flipping). I can honestly say it wasn't my fault (thank god), I'm a brick and was arching big time, with my arms in and my legs back and up where their supposed to be. I did SL progression, ripcords and all. Since then I got my rating and have been on quite a few rides along the way. Then again, I'm pretty much a good student until the drogue is out then I'll usually just leave a leg weird or something to that effect to make the TI have to fight a reasonably gentle turn. Basically, I do whatever the RWS CD tells me to do to the canidate.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #24 February 15, 2005 QuoteThis is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. Not sure if I misunderstand what you said or you misunderstood what I said. I'm a TI, not an E or CD. The couple rare times I said no to someone was after they'd successfully passed the course, and were completing their required jumps with experienced skydivers. Even though they passed the course, I didn't want to jump with them. Just my choice. I don't really understand what you mean about RW TE's, the ones I know ride on front routinely. But I do agree, the TE (or CD) should be the first to ride on front and should not let the TI take anyone until they trust them. Isn't that the point of the course? peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites efs4ever 3 #25 February 15, 2005 QuoteThis is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. I rode on the front with a guy who had never done a tandem during my RWS TI course . He planted us and HE had to re-do the jump. My examiner rode on front with me twice during the course as well as with the other candidates. I'm about to direct my first TI course as an examiner / course director, and I fully intend to be up front. (It get em the meat missle training for one thing...) Why get that rating if you're not willing to get into the thick of things. Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
BIGUN 1,053 #5 February 9, 2005 Others did it for me when I was in training; I owe it to others who need it while they're in training.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #6 February 10, 2005 It is only fair to give back to those who gave to me. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 February 10, 2005 Yes and no. Yes, maybe if I ever go for an IE rating. No, not for free anymore. I've done 27 and while they were fun for a while.......---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #8 February 10, 2005 Yes, why not. Did some while I was in training for TM myself (The examiner told me I 'm the perfect passenger size) Of course only if I trust the TM that needs qualification. (I do not jump with videomen I do not trust either) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeOliver 0 #9 February 10, 2005 Done a few, will probably do a few more. Who knows, might even learn something - about the candidate, sure, maybe not the process. I'd hope we don't invent anything too new along the way. L. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #10 February 10, 2005 QuoteOthers did it for me when I was in training; I owe it to others who need it while they're in training. Ditto I had to take Aggiedave when i went back for a re-currency once. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 February 10, 2005 Every spring I do 2 or 3 jumps strapped to the front of TIs who got rusty over the winter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #12 February 11, 2005 did some, would (and most probably will) do it again - although i won't repeat some of the things i did during the jumps and under canopy The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #13 February 11, 2005 I've been on the front once, and that was to get my rating. I really disliked it. Having no responbility for safety other than body position was not a fun thing, for me. If a person I trusted was getting their rating, and needed a big passenger and nobody else was around, I'd do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #14 February 12, 2005 I've done so many and will keep doing it. It's fun. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spike 0 #15 February 12, 2005 Here's my story and why I posted the question. Very, very newly rated. During TI training I and my instructor experienced a mal. We're both still alive and I have the rating so I guess I did the right thing. I also experienced a side spin. Partly down to the passengers body position, but also to my poor presentation and a feeble attempt to outfly my passenger. Luckily I was drogue side up and recognised instantly the nature of the problem and a few seconds later that I was not going to be able to fly us out of the spin. Quite frankly I found the sidespin the most frightening experience of my skydiving career. However I took a deep breath, saddled up and got back on with the job. It didn't kill me and I won't make that mistake again (I hope). But it did make me realise that as a newly qualified TM I was severely low on experience. This got me to thinking about the level of risk and people's awareness of risk. I too as an A+ licenced jumper have done several qualification jumps to help out newbie TM candidates get thier rating. However its only now that I've done the TM course that I realise the additional complexities and risks of a TM jump. Add to that the low experience level and your into a whole new danger zone. I'm not just talking about the freefall dangers either. Those canopies just don't fly like the sport rig that you (as a sport jumper) have spent hundreds of jumps getting used to. And the landing approach techniques, straight in/stall surge/turn to stand up, slide in or running/nose plant are again quite different to sport rig landing techniques. However as Aggie, said, as a rated TM, I now have the confidence to know I could at least help in most situations. If you don't have a TM rating and your on a qualification jump with a student TM. Don't fu€k around, arch hard and do what your told. Your TM pilot is probably nervous enough as it is and no-ones joking when they say a TM's work rate is high enough as it is. Gosh that sounds overly negative, just understand, whether your TM rated or not, a Tandem is not just another jump! I voted TM rated yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #16 February 12, 2005 If you don't have a TM rating and your on a qualification jump with a student TM. Don't fu€k around, arch hard and do what your told. Your TM pilot is probably nervous enough as it is and no-ones joking when they say a TM's work rate is high enough as it is. Gosh that sounds overly negative, just understand, whether your TM rated or not, a Tandem is not just another jump! I voted TM rated yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point. Jumping on the front of a newly-rated TI does not give you a license to release your inner a&&hole. At worst, that attitude can kill you both. Reminds me of a refresher dive I did years ago. After a couple of years away from tandems, I did a refresher dive with a senior TI strapped to my chest. He thoroughly enjoyed sticking his legs in a variety of weird positions and doing everything he possibly could to destabilize us. I stopped all of his spins and pulled all the right handles at the right altitudes and lost respect for him. Far too few skydiving instructors understand the difference between military screening methods and civilian teaching methods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 February 12, 2005 If you don't have a TM rating and your on a qualification jump with a student TM. Don't fu€k around, arch hard and do what your told. Your TM pilot is probably nervous enough as it is and no-ones joking when they say a TM's work rate is high enough as it is. Gosh that sounds overly negative, just understand, whether your TM rated or not, a Tandem is not just another jump! I voted TM rated yes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point. Jumping on the front of a newly-rated TI does not give you a license to release your inner a&&hole. At worst, that attitude can kill you both. Reminds me of a refresher dive I did years ago. After a couple of years away from tandems, I did a refresher dive with a senior TI strapped to my chest. He thoroughly enjoyed sticking his legs in a variety of weird positions and doing everything he possibly could to destabilize us. I stopped all of his spins and pulled all the right handles at the right altitudes and lost respect for him. Far too few skydiving instructors understand the difference between military screening methods and civilian teaching methods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #17 February 12, 2005 Tandem rated and voted yes. Although, since I'm a weekend warrior in the UK I'm unlikely to be asked to. In the UK, Tandem courses are held during the week, over four days (plus one for weather). Even with the UK's abysmal weather it is usually possible to do the minimum of 9 (maximum of 12) jumps for the course in that time. If a candidate is unable to complete the jumps due to weather, they are evaluated at their home dropzone by an local examiner if one is present or by video if not. I can't remember the last time I saw this happen at my dropzone and I jump at one of the busiest dropzones in the UK. Due to lack of enthusiasm and the mid-week course it is normally quite difficult to find someone to go on the front. The most prepared candidates from the more communal dropzones turn up with a team (a packer, a cameraman and a 'student') to make the most of the weather and speed through the course. Without available people we normally have to rely on the other candidates on the course. That is what happend to me. Woof went on the front of me for my first live jump and I returned the favour on the next jump. This can slow down the course quite considerably so it is very much appreciated when others help out. I'm still very grateful to Robin for helping out on mine. So, yes I would. I needed other people to do it for me so I would do it for others. Just another way of giving back to the sport. Colin, are your jump numbers uptodate in your profile? If not, which dropzone/country did you get your rating(s)?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #18 February 13, 2005 Five different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Elvisio "it's all good" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #19 February 14, 2005 QuoteFive different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Good to know. I'll prolly got for my tandem rating this year or next. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #20 February 14, 2005 QuoteFive different people (not counting the examiner during the course) had the balls to trust me, right? So I figure it's only fair for me to pay it forward to the new TI's in the mix... Agreed, and I have for a handful of TI's. I don't like being on the front but I'll do it. It does make me appreciate the Sigma harness though, as the ones I did on the Sigma harness I felt fine, but the ones I did on Stong made me feel nauseous. But I have said no to some because I did not feel safe with the TI in training. And I think the TICD's are the real gutsy ones. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #21 February 14, 2005 This is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #22 February 14, 2005 It would be interesting to know how many of the people who have voted yes did a tandem for their first jump or somewhere during their student progression. As for me - not a freaken chance! Tandems scare the shit out of me! Never done one, never will! I have, however, helped with IAD courses by playing student allowing people who have never made a dispatch in their life to toss my pc. I guess it's all what you're use to. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 February 14, 2005 I never had done a tandem until I had a couple of hundred jumps and decided to help out someone going for their TI. Unfortunately this asshat tried to kill us when he dumped the drogue after not being stable (read: we were flipping). I can honestly say it wasn't my fault (thank god), I'm a brick and was arching big time, with my arms in and my legs back and up where their supposed to be. I did SL progression, ripcords and all. Since then I got my rating and have been on quite a few rides along the way. Then again, I'm pretty much a good student until the drogue is out then I'll usually just leave a leg weird or something to that effect to make the TI have to fight a reasonably gentle turn. Basically, I do whatever the RWS CD tells me to do to the canidate.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #24 February 15, 2005 QuoteThis is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. Not sure if I misunderstand what you said or you misunderstood what I said. I'm a TI, not an E or CD. The couple rare times I said no to someone was after they'd successfully passed the course, and were completing their required jumps with experienced skydivers. Even though they passed the course, I didn't want to jump with them. Just my choice. I don't really understand what you mean about RW TE's, the ones I know ride on front routinely. But I do agree, the TE (or CD) should be the first to ride on front and should not let the TI take anyone until they trust them. Isn't that the point of the course? peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #25 February 15, 2005 QuoteThis is where Relative Workshop differs from Strong Enterprises. SE Tandem Examiners routinely jump strapped to the front of aspiring TIs, while RW TEs rarely do. My attitude is: if the TE is not willing to entrust his life to a new TI, then he should not inflict the newby on the unsuspecting public. I rode on the front with a guy who had never done a tandem during my RWS TI course . He planted us and HE had to re-do the jump. My examiner rode on front with me twice during the course as well as with the other candidates. I'm about to direct my first TI course as an examiner / course director, and I fully intend to be up front. (It get em the meat missle training for one thing...) Why get that rating if you're not willing to get into the thick of things. Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
