artard 0 #1 June 10, 2010 I recently demo'd a Optik and began to consider the rumored Skydance policy of putting students on lightly loaded Mantles. A friend of mine who learned to skydive at Davis was apparently flying a Flat Top Pro by the time he finished his license and when he moved to the Colorado area up-sized to a larger helmet (most would call this a very smart choice). Now I'm not asking to debate whether this actually happened at Skydance but I'd like to discuss it here as an option in itself. As an A-license holder I think the question of student camera helmet choice is really important and probably not given the proper attention. I've seen AFF-Is put students on the same undersized helmet several times in a row because that was the only thing available and I've seen very little time spent on camera training as part of an AFF dive flow because the free-fall instruction is often thought to be the most important part of the skydive. So, here's the question--at a dropzone using an AFP-style program where the student will do 2-3 tandems and then 15-18 jumps with at least 1 instructor, what do you other instructors think about using a Mantle (with a CX105 and DSLR) as the student's helmet? The benefits, as far as I can tell, include nearly-instant videos on youtube, amazing star power and great ability to edit a video. The obvious downsides include the potential to snag-up and the incredible footage taken during openings and flight. If you were spreading out freefall instruction over those 20 or so jumps, wouldnt that give you some more "time" to teach your student more about videography and allow them to be super-current on editing procedures and the importance of using the exact same song for every tandem video? Yes, I realize that any instructor SHOULD have infinite time to teach their student about song choices, transition types, and using a camera suit but we might as well discuss this in the real world where a first jump course is only so long and prep before each of the AFF levels is 20-30 minutes at best. What about the transition training needed for someone who begins flying a camera helmet very early in their career? Would they be more conservative and heads-up about camera type? That same friend described his speculative take on the late Roger Nelson's philosophy--give a 14 year old a Kodak Disposable and they'll neglect it. Give the same kid a Nikon D80 and he'll take incredible photos because skill is directly correlated to how expensive your gear is. (Now again I'm not sure if Roger Nelson really felt this way, I'd just like to discuss how this sits with the other instructors out there.) Thanks for voting and posting. Blue skies... Rafiqhttp://www.mixcloud.com/prajna http://vimeo.com/avidya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycamefalling 0 #2 June 10, 2010 Geez this sounds like the same bull shit in the other poll thread talking about students using wingsuits during their "AFF/AFP". Did I just waste a minute of my life reading this?? Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead. And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andreeb77 0 #3 June 10, 2010 Hello Rafiq, I'm somewhat sad and surprised after reading your post. I always thought that the US of A are a worldwide leader in technology, education, sport and many other parts of lifestyle. Concerning Student Camera Work (SCW) I have to tell you that over here in Germany (Europe) no one is even talking about it anymore (hence the absence in this forum). We've been equipping students with camera gear for many years and made very good experiences with it. Since our summers are short and jump tickets are expensive we need additional video footage for nightly bonfires. Also, those long winter nights are more bearable when you can post no-pulls, low-pulls and AAD-fires on youtube. If you need additional advice on how to properly perform SCW just let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hallux 0 #4 June 10, 2010 that was one of the best spoof threads I have ever read. Hillarious. I cant believe that 10 people voted no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #5 June 11, 2010 Wrong forum. Joke threads should be in Bonfire. (As opposed to the serious threads... which later turn into jokes.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #6 June 11, 2010 The first spoof was funny. The copycat one is not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opendore 0 #7 June 1, 2011 -I didn't want to start ANOTHER damn thead about this.- I am having trouble with the logic and rational behind these two photos. Pic #1- You better believe I would rather have this on my head over Pic #2. I am CERTAIN I would be thinking about #2 the entire climb and freefall. I would be wondering, "Is it gonna snag...? is it gonna snag? Why is this thing there? Is it gonna snag?" Talk about a distraction.. Pic #1... I wouldn't think about it like that. Keep in mind in this hypothetical situation, I would have zero jumps and a good amount of knowledge about the sport without experience. AND I would not turn either one on. My instructors would. (Just as they actually did with my radio.) In conclusion, all of you that say the distraction factor is there for camera... moot point! That damn radio is MUCH more of a distraction and snag hazard. Being a student, I wouldn't want either one of those on my helmet. Although, if I were to pick one, it's going to be the logically safer of the two. The smaller one. Snag hazard... what photo looks more of a snag hazard. This is not about when I can put a camera on my head... It's about things on my helmet in general and why anyone would allow it for first time jumpers. The way I see it, I could build a cam in that monster of a radio. Turn it on (the unit, being radio and cam) and "forget" about it. The distraction is there no matter what. I feel 200 jumps should be the min amount to have a beast like pic #2 on my helmet. I also feel 200 jumps should be the min for a camera. I didn't know where to put this where I would get honest replies. So it's here. -Confused Student Take Care I don't have a license for this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #9 June 1, 2011 QuotePic #1- You better believe I would rather have this on my head over Pic #2. I am CERTAIN I would be thinking about #2 the entire climb and freefall. I would be wondering, "Is it gonna snag...? is it gonna snag? Why is this thing there? Is it gonna snag?" Talk about a distraction.. Nope, the LAST thing a first jump student is probably thinking about is a snag, generally because they don't know about them yet. They're MUCH more likely to be thinking about jumping out of a plane with nothing but a couple balls of nylon and some strings to keep them from going face first into that field below. As for being a greater distraction, you don't care which way your radio is facing or what it sees, you just want to hear the guy on the other end help you make it safely to the ground. Why would you want a POV video from an AFF student anyway? You can post it on youtube and say it was you all day, but ya can't see yerself! -Get outside video, you got enough shit to worry about!- QuoteI feel 200 jumps should be the min amount to have a beast like pic #2 on my helmet. I also feel 200 jumps should be the min for a camera. Take it up with the USPA... knock yourself out, the older guys there have 4 or 5 digit USPA numbers... but what do they know?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opendore 0 #10 June 1, 2011 Read my post again. How you responded seems like ya didn't read it all. It isn't about the camera. It's about having something on your helmet in general. If they knew everything, there wouldn't be a need for the USPA anymore. How long have DZs been using helmet radios? How can they know how safe it is, if it is relatively new? I don't think this is a, "They know it safe because they have digits." I'm not out to change what works. If it works, keep it that way. I want to know the logic behind the whole argument. I know this forum isn't the place for this. Gotta start somewhere though. I don't have a license for this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #11 June 1, 2011 QuoteIt isn't about the camera. It's about having something on your helmet in general. I understand why you think it is crazy to get all excited about a (relatively) snag-free camera helmet when radios are put on student helmets like in picture #2. (There are other issues with actual cameras that you will learn about, but that's OK. You are asking good questions.) QuoteHow long have DZs been using helmet radios? Quite a while, but usually I see them on top of the helmet where it would be much less likely to snag. I think that setup must have been designed by someone who had some student canopy control issues and had some students say they couldn't hear the radio (which may or may not be true.) The designer said to themselves, "I'm gonna fix that, I'm gonna put the radio in his ear!" That's got to be loud enough to hurt! (I wouldn't do it that way.) Radios on the chest strap seem to be a good place to put them with the exception of: When a student doesn't get their leg straps tight, or a small student has been put in a student rig with non-adjustable main lift webs. They are likely to get hit in the face with the radio on opening. (This is the same with chest-mount altimeters too.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #12 June 2, 2011 My AFF Dz had side mounted Walkie Talkies, similar to the Opendore pics, fortunately for me they were stolen beofre my AFF jumps, that was 9 years ago, I have seen many places with the radios oon the side like that. and they do present a snag potential.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solodude59 0 #13 June 2, 2011 wheres pops on this one.... In freefall, you have the rest of your life to figure out what's wrong. -Joe, AFF Instructor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #14 June 2, 2011 QuoteI don't think this is a, "They know it safe because they have digits." If you're going to quote me, atleast copy/paste what I type and not leave words out."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #15 June 2, 2011 My old DZ has radio pockets sewn into the upper outside sleeves of the student jumpsuits. When their hands are in the toggles, the radios are right near their ears, but there is essentially no snag potential. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 June 2, 2011 Quote wheres pops on this one.... *waving hand* I thought the question was: "So, here's the question--at a dropzone using an AFP-style program where the student will do 2-3 tandems and then 15-18 jumps with at least 1 instructor, what do you other instructors think about using a Mantle (with a CX105 and DSLR) as the student's helmet?" I don't understand cameras on AFF students. I don't understand radios on the outside of helmets on AFF students. I wouldn't agree to jump with either situation. But that's just me. I don't need the money badly enough to over-ride my safety concerns.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artard 0 #17 June 2, 2011 I just got a PM from an instructor from Skydance who apparently doesn't understand the concept of satire or sarcasm so I just wanted to clear up that this was a parody thread and NOT based on any actual events and no, skydance is not allowing their students to jump with camera helmets http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna http://vimeo.com/avidya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #18 June 2, 2011 Quote I just got a PM from an instructor from Skydance who apparently doesn't understand the concept of satire or sarcasm so I just wanted to clear up that this was a parody thread and NOT based on any actual events and no, skydance is not allowing their students to jump with camera helmets You gotta PM me who that was so I can give them shit My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
menopause 0 #19 June 2, 2011 Quote I just got a PM from an instructor from Skydance who apparently doesn't understand the concept of satire or sarcasm so I just wanted to clear up that this was a parody thread and NOT based on any actual events and no, skydance is not allowing their students to jump with camera helmets Just think, this guy has responsibility over students lives and cannot detect blatant sarcasm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 June 3, 2011 Quote I just got a PM from an instructor from Skydance who apparently doesn't understand the concept of satire or sarcasm so I just wanted to clear up that this was a parody thread and NOT based on any actual events and no, skydance is not allowing their students to jump with camera helmets Yours was, but Opendore, Posted this question http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4127162#4127162 Which was a serious question within your thread.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
