Death Question

[DeNReN 0]

I am a new IAD JM .......yesterday while gearing up a load of 1st jump students I was hit with the "has anyone ever died here?" question.....it caught me completely off guard!!!!

I believe I studdered like Porky Pig for a second before responding with a quick subject change...

I forgot how to deal with this question and also forgot to ask the senior instructors how to deal with it before I left the DZ.

I will be addressing this with my DZO and senior instructors as soon as possible but I wonder how other instructors deal with the "question"

All input is appreciated

[livendive 8]

I'm a proponent of telling them the truth, but I don't work at a big dz where fatalities are relatively common.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[stratostar 5]

Tell the truth and point out what the jumper may have done to cause it, such as fail to take the right actions at the right time, and instill in them this is why you just sat through a 6 to 8 hour ground school and hanging harness to learn how and when to act.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DeNReN 0]

Dave I am also a proponent of telling the truth and I also do not work at a big DZ where fatalities are realtively common.....

When is the right time to tell the truth??.....would you open up a discussion on the subject as the student is being geared up 30 minutes before they are on there way to jump for the 1st time??...or would you defer the question to a later time?

How exactly would you tell the truth(if the answer is yes)?


My home DZ has had 2 deaths in 20+ years..no 1st jump students.

[bclark 0]

I think that you should tell them the truth. Explain that accidents are usually a result of pilot error. I think that students should not be ignorant of the risks involved in skydiving. If they are brought up to have a healthy respect for what they are doing they will take safety and their training more seriously.

[Maxx 1]

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Explain that accidents are usually a result of pilot error.

That's right, but sometimes "shit happens" even if you do everything right and that's part of the deal with skydiving. I think every student should know that.

[tombuch 0]

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How exactly would you tell the truth(if the answer is yes)?


My home DZ has had 2 deaths in 20+ years..no 1st jump students.

A- "Yeah, we have had a couple of fatalities in something like 20 years, but none of them were first jump students. I think that in both cases they were advanced jumpers who made serious mistakes such as..... That's why we are so firm with our training, and why I'm comfortable working here. Just remember the key things we taught you, and you'll have all the tools you need for a terrific jump. Hey, let's check your radio..."

You can also reemphasize a couple of the key training issues at this point, but don't over do it.

It's a natural question, and you should have a natural answer that doesn't disguise the truth. Be honest if asked, but don't dwell on fatalities.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[RoryJ 0]

Tell them the truth. Why would you lie? Like the other responses have mentioned, explain some of the reasons why.

I also like to reinforce the fact that they ARE jumping out of a plane. We have made great technological advances in the sport over the past few years, but what we are doing still is dangerous.

Not again!

[flyer299 0]

I have a new favorite one... I've been asked twice now in the last month:

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Have you or anyone out here ever died from skydiving?

Of course the only response I could come up with is, "Yes, I've died three times this month."

[stratostar 5]

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When is the right time to tell the truth??.....

From the get go, if you are teaching the FJC, you can slip it in with the "about us/you" part. Very much like Tom B. posted.

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A- "Yeah, we have had a couple of fatalities in something like 20 years, but none of them were first jump students. I think that in both cases they were advanced jumpers who made serious mistakes such as..... That's why we are so firm with our training, and why I'm comfortable working here.

"Your going to be learning a lot today in this class and it's my job to convay all the infomation to you that you need to know to deal with any EP that MIGHT come up, be sure to feel free to ask any questions you might have, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. We've made a lot of changes over the years to help make the sport safer and here are a few things you need to know about and understand how they work...... (show AAD & RSL) ETC.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DeNReN 0]

Thanks guys...

I see alot of tap dancing in responces with a couple of exceptions.....a simple "tell them the truth" answer kinda sucks as it does not address making my already nervous students more nervous by talking about dying while skydiving

Lets expand this subject a tad and ask what can be done to not have this question come up just before jump time..???.....should this subject be addressed in the FJC/tandem breifing? so it does not come up just before the jump when the student should be thinking of more important things..suchs as arching etc????

[bclark 0]

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what can be done to not have this question come up just before jump time..???

Nothing. This is the first of many times that you will be asked this question. Find a way that you feel is appropriate to answer it and do so in the most professional way possible. Students are going to be nervous. They are going to ask questions.

[DeNReN 0]

Thanks....I am prepared to answer most questions....and most have been adressed in the FJC...and I am prepared to reanswer any of those questions....

I however find the "death" question hard to answer and was hoping for "the perfect answer" by picking the brains of some rather fine instructors....


)perfect answer not expected....good answers and ideas are much appreciated (

[diablopilot 2]

I tell them the truth. And if they want details I will discuss it in private at an appropriate time. Durring gear up is not that time.

Understand that your responsibility is not to sugar coat things to get nervous jumpers in the air, but instead teach them the realities of what they're about to do, and let them make the decision themselves. If they don;t have trust in themselves, their training, and their instructors they shouldn't be in the air.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[livendive 8]

Like someone else suggested farther up, I incorporate the basic answer into my FJC. I get kind of doom/gloom at points for emphasis, and then progress back toward rainbows and puppies so that at the end I've hopefully got them casual again with the knowledge that bad shit does happen, and it's quite unlikely to happen to them if they do what I've taught them.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[DeNReN 0]

Thank you all for the responces and PM's

[tombuch 0]

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I however find the "death" question hard to answer and was hoping for "the perfect answer" by picking the brains of some rather fine instructors....

It's not surprising that you find the question hard to answer. It's a new concept for you. Trust me...in time that question will become easier. Heck, after teaching for a while you will have been asked every possible question about a hundred times and it will all seem old hat. Until the next student asks you something brand new that could never have been imagined.

Teaching skydiving will help you become better at thinking on your feet, and at anticipating and understanding the concerns of your students (and other folks in your life).

Enjoy the ride.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[JSBIRD 1]

Although no longer active, my standard answer to that question, always delivered with a scowl and as much sarcasm as possible was...

"Well, I ain't killed you yet!"

BASE359

"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

[Jumpah 0]

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When is the right time to tell the truth??

From the start. These guys gotta trust you, and giving them bs will hinder that.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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and it's quite unlikely to happen to them if they do what I've taught them.

Blues,
Dave

That's the ticket, right there. After training, show them they have the skills to avoid that incident.

[pchapman 261]

It's an easy question for me as my DZ has had the good fortune to have zero fatalities in 35+ years.

I tell the students to pay attention to what they've been taught ... so they don't screw up our good record!

[DJL 232]

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Although no longer active, my standard answer to that question, always delivered with a scowl and as much sarcasm as possible was...

"Well, I ain't killed you yet!"

BASE359

Mine is "There is a 100% chance that everyone who has been out here will die is they haven't already." If it's someone who actually wants to discuss an incident then that's a different story.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[crotalus01 0]

Obviously I'm not an instructor, but my FJC opened my class by introducing himself and telling us "Please pay attention during this entire class because you will be jumping out of a plane at 15000 feet, and you need this information I am teaching you to avoid hitting the ground and dying a bloody death. We have never lost a student but there have been two fatalities here. I intend to keep that number at two." He went on to give us some details about the two fatalities (one low turn and one knee to the face during RW resulting in unconciousness and no AAD).
I was actually relieved as a student that the instructor was not bullshitting me, and you can bet your ass I payed complete attention.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[danielcroft 2]

As a student I would prefer to be told the truth. Tom does a great job (yet again) of answering in a clear and appropriate way.

If you're doing a dangerous sport without understanding the risks, you're not doing yourself any favors and (as someone else said) shouldn't be in the air.

Although it's kind of weird (maybe?), I've read every incident report and try to understand what happens and what can be done. At the same time, like motorcycling (I do that too!), sometimes shit does happen. You can do everything right and still end up dead.

I vote for honesty but not dwelling, let them know you can discuss after if they're interested.

[Jon26 0]

Hi, firstly, i'm not an instructor or anywhere near, but i've worked at the DZ for about a year and a half and started out as a host / driver so i was talking to the customers a lot (before i started on the pack mat - now, not so much).

I got asked that question everyday too and just told the truth. As far as i know there has never been a fatality at the DZ i work at, but i would expand and tell them that, yes accidents can and have happened in skydiving but, i would just put it into perspective for them and compare it to injuries in other sports like skiing / snowboarding, mountain-biking and even horse-riding. Stuff they are likely to have already done.
Plus, the obvious, "There was a higher risk of popping your clogs on the drive to the DZ (Except when i'm driving, of course!)."