tdog 0 #76 August 29, 2007 Quote Do I worry too much for students? Am I being TOO conservative when it comes to students safety? No, you can never be to safe. But, I fail to still believe that a student that can't find a mile long runway and 22 other flying canopies below them will process a single other open canopy 1000 below them. I still rather be on the ground where I can drive to their off landing or use the radio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #77 August 29, 2007 QuoteQuoteWe do it by canopy color. Care is taken to ensure that two students don't go up with the same color canopy at the same time. Ever have a color blind student? I don't think there is anything wrong addressing each student by their first name while they are under canopy. j I just got my AFF rating, but as far as I have noticed, we haven't had any in awhile. We ask all our students if they are colorblind. A lot of the time we will use the persons name, but sometimes it is just easier to say "Blue canopy left turn, pink canopy right turn." JP is right though, it sure helps to know which one you are talking to because all the risers are marked with the color that the canopy so you can check as they board.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #78 August 30, 2007 Mmmmmmmkay.... I'm on the other side of the street saying instructors should do all they can to prevent problems rather than assume that there will be no problems. How can you help them with an off-landing if you can't see where they are landing and what they are facing? So we agree to disagree. Thanks for your perspective.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #79 August 30, 2007 I don't like referring to students by their canopy color.... it's freaking impersonal. These are students, people who hopefully will eventually become productive members of the DZ. It's a lot more reassuring and calming to someone who's already nervous to hear their name than be referred to so generically. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #80 August 30, 2007 QuoteI don't like referring to students by their canopy color.... it's freaking impersonal. These are students, people who hopefully will eventually become productive members of the DZ. It's a lot more reassuring and calming to someone who's already nervous to hear their name than be referred to so generically. Better to be referred to generically than incorrectly.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #81 August 30, 2007 At a static-line DZ I have radioed as many as four students at a time. Note: they opened above 3,000 feet, so we often had three, sometimes four student canopies in the air at the same time. "Jumper number 1, flare, flare, flare!" "Jumper number 2, right turn, right turn, right turn, stop!" "Jumper number three, left turn, left turn, stop!" "Jumper number four, good job kicking out of those line twists. Now stay on the east side of the airport." Granted, it is a major mental challenge - for the radio instructor - but can be done after enough practice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #82 August 30, 2007 QuoteBetter to be referred to generically than incorrectly. Which is why we write down the student's name, canopy, and radio frequency down on the student board prior to getting on the plane, to avoid getting it wrong. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #83 August 30, 2007 QuoteHow can you help them with an off-landing if you can't see where they are landing and what they are facing? Grey hair! When a student is sinking below the tree line a mile and a half away on their first solo - it is not a good feeling... Been there... This is where ground training can make a difference, along with a little luck...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #84 August 30, 2007 QuoteI think you missed the idea. The colors are there so the instructor knows who they are talking to. but if the student is color blind, how do they know that they are the blue canopy and their defination of blue is probably not the same as someone who is not color blind. We have always put the students name and which canopy they are under w/colors on a piece of paper attached to the radio. and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with calling out blue canopy turn left, etc. I was just stating that could be a problem for someone that is color blind. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #85 August 30, 2007 QuoteNow stay on the east side of the airport." I have 2500 dives at my current DZ. I have no idea what the east side is. I could work it out thinking of where the sun sets, but that's cos I've watched the sun set there for 10 years. I call my students by their names. I make around a dollar a second out of them. The very least I can do is remember their names. After all, I just said "Hey {Students name}! Are you ready to skydive? Come to the door with me." about 50 seconds before their canopy opens. (And I have a CRAP memory.) tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #86 August 30, 2007 Quote Quote I think you missed the idea. The colors are there so the instructor knows who they are talking to. but if the student is color blind, how do they know that they are the blue canopy and their defination of blue is probably not the same as someone who is not color blind. I'm thinking the whole point is that the INSTRUCTOR knows to call the blue canopy "Tom" and the purple one "Sandra" Then again, we don't use radios on our dz and most students seem to make it to the dz just fine and usually fly a decent pattern and flare, starting jump 1 Although there are a select few who seem to need a TomTom ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #87 August 30, 2007 Quote we don't use radios on our dz and most students seem to make it to the dz just fine and usually fly a decent pattern and flare Really? No radio at all?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #88 August 30, 2007 yes, but FAST posted QuoteA lot of the time we will use the persons name, but sometimes it is just easier to say "Blue canopy left turn, pink canopy right turn. In this case if the student is color blind, do they know they are under the Pink canopy or Blue canopy. I know there aren't that many color blind people that skydive, but its just something to think about if that is how they are addressing the students on the radio. JBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #89 August 30, 2007 QuoteI know there aren't that many color blind people that skydive, but its just something to think about if that is how they are addressing the students on the radio. We always try to use names, but sometimes when the names don't get posted (it happens sometimes) we use the color of the canopy and out of the 7 years I have been working there it has never been an issue. Similar sounding names has though (like Bill and Will or one time there was Aaron and Erin on the same load, that was fun)... As long as the radio operator does what it takes to establish and maintain communication. Learning to use the radio properly is one of the more difficult aspects of learning to be a good instructor.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #90 August 30, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think you missed the idea. The colors are there so the instructor knows who they are talking to. but if the student is color blind, how do they know that they are the blue canopy and their defination of blue is probably not the same as someone who is not color blind. We have always put the students name and which canopy they are under w/colors on a piece of paper attached to the radio. and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with calling out blue canopy turn left, etc. I was just stating that could be a problem for someone that is color blind. j Sorry, I should of clarified. I've worked for a few operations, so I'll list the way things were done. 1) Separate radios for each student with separate instructors controlling each student. Problems include: too much gear, confusion about what channel which student is on, and instructors have to communicate with each other to keep the pattern organized. 2) One radio person on the ground who does not go up with the students, the students are exited in a specific order to keep track of who is who. Problems: If a student doesn't get out, or balks, then gets out later it can create confusion. 3) All student canopies are different colors from one another, first instructor out has a radio, and there is a back up radio person on the ground. Students are referred to by NAME, and the instructor uses the list of who is on what color canopy for reference. This is the best system.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fercie 0 #91 September 1, 2007 Sorry to cause so much troubleAt least I've improved a little bit since this video Fear is not knowing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #92 September 1, 2007 Quote Sorry to cause so much troubleAt least I've improved a little bit since this video If you were the student, your performance was pretty damn fine. Good job handing instability. The issue here is with the performance of your instructors...it looks like they were both having a bad day at the same time.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #93 September 1, 2007 QuoteQuote we don't use radios on our dz and most students seem to make it to the dz just fine and usually fly a decent pattern and flare Really? No radio at all? Yup. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #94 September 2, 2007 QuoteReally? No radio at all? Yup. What kinda program is it?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #95 September 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteReally? No radio at all? Yup. What kinda program is it? SL and AFF. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #96 September 2, 2007 1001 jumps eh? congrats on breaking a thousand!Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #97 September 2, 2007 Quote 1001 jumps eh? congrats on breaking a thousand! LOL thanx No more canopy rules for me ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #98 September 3, 2007 QuoteQuote we don't use radios on our dz and most students seem to make it to the dz just fine and usually fly a decent pattern and flare Really? No radio at all?I also learned without Radio, just an Arrow and Paddles on finals. never an issueYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #99 September 4, 2007 Quote We always try to use names, but sometimes when the names don't get posted (it happens sometimes) we use the color of the canopy and out of the 7 years I have been working there it has never been an issue. We almost never have two students on radio in the air at the same time (they get separate passes on their IAD jumps and are off radio by the time they get to AFF). I have forgotten to get the exit order a couple of times, so I'll say something "Hey, I forgot to get the exit order. If this is Bob, turn left. If this is Henry, turn right. If this is Yvonne, flare....OK, it looks like this is Bob. Give me a right turn if that's correct." Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erikph 0 #100 September 4, 2007 our student rigs are all clearly numbered, and a chart with the numbers plus corresponding color combination is attached to the back of the pilot's seat. also, first thing we ask a student over the radio is to open and close their legs a few times, to confirm that they are hearing us / that we are talking to the right person.blue skies, http://myjumps.blogspot.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
