AFF INSTRUCTORS ADVISE NEEDED

[rustywardlow 0]

The only point that I was trying to bring out is that the USAFA free launches their students from the first jump. Not how or who they choose to do it. The idea is that with proper training it can be done. If the training takes 2-weeks to prep the students then that's what it takes.

[Miami 0]

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I think he (my husband) does it just to rib everyone that is always making fun of us for jumping Racers in the first place.

Your husband and I think a lot alike.

Miami

[Spizzzarko 0]

AM-490 is a great program. I agree with you Rusty, that with the proper instruction a student can do quite a bit on their own. With the improper instruction a student can fuck up by the numbers, and not even know it. How are things going for yall out at Canon. I heard Randy didn't get his King Air off the ground very long... As the prop turn, so are the days of our lives at the DZ.

Grant

[kmfreefly 0]

One of the Air Force students showed up at our DZ with a video of her jumps. I was also surprised to hear about and see the training methods used by the Air Force, but I was looking forward to working with an "easy" student... It had been a while since she jumped, so we put her in the regular AFF program, with chance for quicker advancement if she was doing well.
She did perform quite well, in fact almost too well...
During her two weeks of Air Force training, and her subsequent jumps, she was taught to arch HARD! So hard, that when we first let her go, this 140 pound female maintained an average fall rate of 141 miles per hour. Nothing quite like freeflying with a Level 3...
She also had some turn issues made worse by her fall rate, and she was having pretty HARD openings. So we actually trained her to arch hard at first, then relax (or in her case de-arch) to slow herself down, then all was fixed and she graduated. I wouldn't say anything bad about her Air Force training. She was very knowledgeable, and very stable, just needed some minor adjustments coming into the world of civilian skydiving, so that she could comfortably fly with others.

Team Flew-id
Making freefall pretty since 1998

[Spizzzarko 0]

The intent of the program is not to make worldclass skydivers out of these cadets. It's "Character Development". Even if they get booted out of the program with only one jump we asked them if they learned something about themselves. 99.9% say yes, and that's what the program was about.

[skydiverton 0]

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In reply what skydiverton is writing it can be explained why the jumpmasters Pac can let their students exit free the plane from the second jump on (high standards of qualification). Although tey (Jm) can do it ,not every student is ready mentally to exit free from the second jump on.... That statement is based of information given by the JM 's PAC.

Exactly, they can if they want. They do not have to!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[livendive 8]

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the student isnt going to learn very quick if you let them exit on there own on the 2nd jump, they will not be flying. they will be tumbleing.

i would say about the 6th jump is ok. if they have got that far, then the little tumbel or flail that they have they should be able to correct it on there own then.

I've put out a ton of students without grips on their first jump (S/L and IAD). Some tumbled, some did well.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[sneaky 0]

hey Chuck

My friend Titou Auvery ( Former French 8way ) was one of the innovators / believers of the PAC method, I was privelaged to see some of the first dives he did with a girl at Annemasse DZ near Lyon Fr and without a doubt this is an incredible method of instruction. i agree with your post, Titou had 14000 jumps at the time and this going back a few years, and is one of the best flyers I have ever seen.

Even though this method is brilliant in terms of student training and the AFF evolution process, I think our USPA ISP is just as advanced and achieves the same magic results if taught properly and combined with further Individual and Group Skills.

[bernard 0]

As a reply of what I said, and to show the education of a new skydiver, there is a Pac progression on skydiving movies (students - page 1 - Pac of Kevin at Royan). You can clearly sea of what a Pac instructor and his student are capable of doing, high regards, bernie

[Sebazz1 2]

I know my response is most likely inapropriate in this forum but I can't help it. Everyone knows that the French come right out of the womb born natural kick ass skydivers!

Seriously though. Once a student shows they have reasonable stability only one JM is neccesary to my oppionion. I belive you can judge from just thier first jump whether one or two JM's is needed for #2 and on. Not having grips or even release on the second jump is asking for trouble though. I've seen students ace there first couple of dives then suddenly in the middle of a freefall on a level four or higher they suddenly aquire the skill to locate hit patches of rarified air. I think level two is too early for no grips on exit or even release.

[bernard 0]

THX Sebazz 1 for your reply, like I said myself I followed AFF in empuria in 94 and it worked very well for me. My daughter recently did a Pac in Annemasse and the free exit was on jump 3, she performed very well but she's very young (21years). But as far as I know the Pac system adapts itself on the personality of the individual skydiver so in the Pac it's also possible that the instructor thinks a student may only exit free on jump six, that's the strenght of the pac. Anyway AFF - PAC - PFF (Candian progression) are great ways of learning and for me all the credit goes to the wonderfull motivation of your instructors who learned us this great sport....

[riggerrob 558]

Thanks for your kind words.
I suspect that differences between French, American and Canadian freefall programs are because of differences in instructor skills and currency.
If you are "god's gift to skydiving" (national 8-way team, 1,000 jumps in the past year, etc.) you can probably do no-grip dives with early students.
However, if you are un-current - after a long winter lay-off - or less than national team caliber, you are wiser to ask students to do a few pre-levels (tandem, IAD or S/L) and hold on to them longer.