NSEMN8R 0 #1 February 4, 2005 I'm not planning on doing anything stupid. Just wondering if it's written somewhere that the guy with the rating has to carry the rig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 February 4, 2005 105.3 Definitions. For the purposes of this part -- "Tandem parachute system: means the combination of a main parachute, approved reserve parachute, and approved harness and dual parachute container, and a separate approved forward harness for a passenger parachutist. This parachute system must have an operational automatic activation device installed." "Passenger parachutist means a person who boards an aircraft, acting as other than the parachutist in command of a tandem parachute operation, with the intent of existing the aircraft while in-flight using the forward harness of a dual harness tandem parachute system to descend to the surface." Well, you don't have to be in back, but the passenger has to be in front. So, ya, you have to be in back. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #3 February 4, 2005 Got it. Thanks. So, as a Strong TI, if I wanted to try out an Eclipse it would technically have to be with an examiner right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 February 4, 2005 QuoteSo, as a Strong TI, if I wanted to try out an Eclipse it would technically have to be with an examiner right? Right. But try a Sigma instead Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #5 February 4, 2005 In the beginning, I actually tried TM up front, as well as passenger up front, facing TM. The latter is a lot of fun with an attractive member of the opposite sex, but TM behind student, both facing the same way, is the only way to go. (Anyone for a side-by-side?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 February 4, 2005 Quote(Anyone for a side-by-side?) Sure! Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #7 February 4, 2005 QuoteIn the beginning, I actually tried TM up front, as well as passenger up front, facing TM. The latter is a lot of fun with an attractive member of the opposite sex, but TM behind student, both facing the same way, is the only way to go. (Anyone for a side-by-side?) Well if you'd gone with the face-to-face mode, you might have solved the problem of most student jumpers being male."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #8 February 4, 2005 Quote Well, you don't have to be in back, but the passenger has to be in front. So, ya, you have to be in back. Derek Hook, have you ever considered a career practicing law?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #9 February 4, 2005 Quote(Anyone for a side-by-side?) You build it, We'll jump it. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,071 #10 February 4, 2005 QuoteSo, as a Strong TI, if I wanted to try out an Eclipse it would technically have to be with an examiner right? I believe you can solo one after orientation by an examiner, but don't hold me to it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #11 February 4, 2005 Quote(Anyone for a side-by-side?) That would make directing the heavers easier. “Whatever you do if you have to vomit LOOK AWAY from me”. Now as for the student facing the TM… yeah I don’t think I want to imagine that up-chuck scenario. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 February 4, 2005 Bill, What I really want is a harness that allows me to take a pair of Japanese girls side-by-side strapped to my chest. Their combined weight (less than 200 pounds) would still be less than many of the Canadian guys I currently haul. It would be a hoot listening to them yammering to each other all the way down. To my boss: I will cheerfully save you airplane time by hauling two tandem students at a time, but I still expect to get paid for hauling two students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #13 February 4, 2005 QuoteIn the beginning, I actually tried TM up front, as well as passenger up front, facing TM. The latter is a lot of fun with an attractive member of the opposite sex, but TM behind student, both facing the same way, is the only way to go. (Anyone for a side-by-side?) Not to incriminate myself or anyone else, but I know more than a couple of tandem masters who have jumped with their passenger facing them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #14 February 4, 2005 QuoteNot to incriminate myself or anyone else, but I know more than a couple of tandem masters who have jumped with their passenger facing them. (Mr. Booth - if you are still reading this, please don't ) One of the funiest I ever saw was a passenger wearing a rig of his own, who planned to make a 'jump from the tandem' (release the hooks after deployment of the tandemcanopy. Climb on TI's shoulders. Shout 'Mr Bill!' and jump of...) He did not manage to release the shoulderhooks and had to stay where he was. I'll never forget the look on his face as he looked over his shoulder when the they were landing... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #15 February 4, 2005 It has been done. Two small, beautiful blonds, on the front of a very happy tandem master. My favorite picture, however, was a "tandem" Christmas card, with a father, mother, 5 year old daughter, and her teddy bear...All in a row. I say "favorite" because it was not done in the US. It was also not very smart. The military now carries up to 1,000 pounds on our tandem equipment, so theoretically, you could go with a 200 lb. tandem master, and EIGHT 100 lb. women. Please don't try this at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #16 February 4, 2005 Bill Booth told me once that “Eclipse is a copy of a Vector 2” and I defiantly wouldn’t argue that point. It’s virtually impossible to get an Eclipse Factory rating these days (some may say otherwise). Personally I’d say if you had a Vector rating, you could jump an Eclipse (I’m sure Bill would have something to say about that too) I jump and own Eclipse tandem rigs, I had a factory rating but the last time I sent them my money they didn’t bother sending me a new card (therefore the last time I sent money!) I also wouldn’t argue that the Sigma is the best tandem system ever offered! I did recently buy (last summer) a third Eclipse rig (minus main) with less than 10 jumps on it for $4000.00 form the founder of Stunts and Eclipse. It would take over 3 times that money to get into a Sigma. Edited to add pics of my $4000 rigExperience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 February 4, 2005 QuoteI believe you can solo one after orientation by an examiner, but don't hold me to it. This wouldbe one for Bill, But I would think you could jump a tandem rig as much as you wanted solo without a rating. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #18 February 5, 2005 Thats a nice looking rig. It looks alot more like a sport rig than a Strong. I was just using eclipse as an example, Id really like to try all of them. That coud be a real challenge though if I have to find an examiner for each one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropzonefool 0 #19 February 5, 2005 I know someone who hold an Examiner rating in every one. Let me know I'll PM you his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #20 February 5, 2005 A tandem rig is different than a sport rig. Therefore, you need tandem training to safely jump a tandem rig. That is company policy. I am not aware of any FAA policy about this. This begs the question...why would you want to jump a 45 pound rig if you didn't have to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #21 February 5, 2005 QuoteThis begs the question...why would you want to jump a 45 pound rig if you didn't have to? I've heard of Vector II tandem rigs being modified and used as solo rigs. Beyond that, I dunno. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #22 February 5, 2005 They have been modified to a simple hand deployed configuration for jumpers that weigh over 300 lbs. But these are no longer tandem rigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #23 February 5, 2005 QuoteA tandem rig is different than a sport rig. Therefore, you need tandem training to safely jump a tandem rig. That is company policy. I am not aware of any FAA policy about this. My layman’s reading of the regulations (see definitions, 105.3) suggests that the FAA considers a tandem rig without the second passenger harness to be a single-harness, dual parachute system, and that it can be jumped without specific manufacturer approval. The difference between the two classifications seems to be the addition of the separate forward harness for a passenger parachutist. The issue remains murky, but I think it would be reasonable (under regulation) for a parachutist to use a tandem system on a solo jump. Of course it’s also important to understand the significant differences between a regular sport rig and a tandem rig, and thus it is NOT reasonable for an untrained parachutist to actually jump a tandem rig. Tandem rigs have unique deployment systems, and special emergency procedures that require training and experience to master, and should not be flown without that training. 105.3 Single-harness, dual parachute system: means the combination of a main parachute, approved reserve parachute, and approved single person harness and dual-parachute container. This parachute system may have an operational automatic activation device installed. Tandem parachute operation: means a parachute operation in which more than one person simultaneously uses the same tandem parachute system while descending to the surface from an aircraft in flight. Tandem parachute system: means the combination of a main parachute, approved reserve parachute, and approved harness and dual parachute container, and a separate approved forward harness for a passenger parachutist. This parachute system must have an operational automatic activation device installed. 105.45 (a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless... See http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=c762c4cdd5d34aac182d9ff11c0dab48&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr105_main_02.tpl for complete regulations.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark135 0 #24 February 6, 2005 QuoteI'm not planning on doing anything stupid. I know nsemn8r and this statement alone gives me pause. _______________ "It seemed like a good idea at the time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #25 February 6, 2005 Quote I know nsemn8r and this statement alone gives me pause. Hey Mark. I was just talking about you in another thread.... Really, none of the stupid things I do are planned Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
