Questions for AFF-Instructors.

[weegegirl 2]

How long did you actively use your coach rating before aquiring an AFF-I rating? How many jumps did you have? Was most of your prior skydiving experience doing RW?

I have been actively using my Coach rating for most of this season and part of last season, and am considering an AFF rating. However, most of my personal skydiving experience has been with freeflying. Do you forsee this as a problem?

AFF is still fairly new to our dropzone, so I thought I would ask the dz.com crowd.

Just brainstorming here. Thanks for your input.

[Shark 0]

I had my Coach rating for a year and a half prior to entering the AFFIRC, with close to 600 jumps, mostly r-dub stuff. I spent a lot of time observing and assisting in FJCs with getting an occasional Cat G/H jump. This allowed me to transition to how we do it in the real world easier.

You should get as many "work-up" jumps as you can prior to entering the course. If anything, freeflying may even help you in certain areas. Skills you will need are slot flying, maneuver flying, and the ability to observe and give in-air instruction. Get the "bottom-end" sequence down as well. AFF can be very rewarding, at times.

Shark
Tandem/AFF-I
Skydive Elsinore

[crutch 0]

Didn't have a coaches program when I got my rating!

blue skies,

art

[AggieDave 6]

What steps did you take, then, since the Coach rating wasn't around then?

I'm assuming you were a RW guy, since FFing wasn't really around yet. What sort of jumps did you do to try to prepare for the course, or did you not do any sort of special training jumps?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[crutch 0]

Lots of four-way RW (was on a team). This really helps for exit purposes one and for just good plan old RW second. Being able to fly your slot without grips tends to carry over real well. I was also a s/l instructor at the time and put out a lot of students. The biggest thing though is the right attitude when you go to the course. You know in your heart if you are capable of accomplishing the tasks set out in the course. Being combative with the evaluators because your skills are lacking is a sure fire way to not pass. If you think you can just skate by, you won't! Nowadays the evaluators really work with you, being willing to learn really helps.

blue skies,

art

[GravityGirl 0]

I had 387 jumps when I got my rating.

There was no coach program.

Most of my jumps were RW training on a 4-way team.

I had 34 training jumps for AFF prior to my coarse.

I didn't know what I didn't know. But I wouldn't take "No" for an answer.

Now the ground points. That was embarrasing! I got those points by the skin of my teeth!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[koz2000 1]

I had my coach rating for a month before I got my AFF-I. I quite a few AFF/tandem video jumps, but not a whole lot of basic coach jumps. I did teach several FJC. 95% of my jumps were freeflying, so it was an interesting course. I did about 20 practice jumps w/AFF-IEs on my dz before the course. I think the hardest thing for me was to fly a close slot, doing video I was used to backing off a few feet, that will bite you in the ass, especially on the Cat C.

Our Course Director had the 8-second dance - the bottom end sequence, LEARN IT, LOVE IT, PRACTICE IT.


.

______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[tspillers 0]

I finished the AFFCC on my 366th jump. It was long before the coach program. I did around 50 practice jumps for it. Best bet is to find a current evaluator to work with. Next best things is an instructor that recently went through the course. Practice up till you feel very comfortable, then go to a precourse.

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[Deuce 1]

Had my Coach rating for about a year, used it in the air a few times, taught a lot of ground school.

Took the AFF-I course from Jay Stokes. He was great about defining the things that needed to be done for the rating and going on practice jumps with the candidates to get their confidence up before the "game-on" jumps.

I took it at Skydive Southern California. There were three hardcore freefliers who found out the hard way that they did not have the skills to graduate, and Jay let them take an incomplete before the "game-on" or judged jumps. The course was in May, and as of August they had not contacted Jay to finish the course.

You can't (virtually everybody) dock an unstable student, roll them off their back and pull them out in time if you do it in a stand, head-down, or sit.

AFF is a belly down discipline. You have to master it before trying to teach it, IMO.

That said, there are some spectacularly great freefliers who put the bumper suit on to teach.

A suggestion? Prior to the course, practice RW with the group at your DZ, and maybe take the course at a DZ with a tunnel. Practice fall rate recovery and sharpen your fine motor flying. Ideally you can stay right within grasping distance of a student who is wobbling all over the place.

The instructors, bless them, will do heinous stuff you swear could never happen in real life. But the only thing that kept me in the most horrible skydive of my life was the fact that I had been that unstable and spinning once before: with Yong at the AFF-I course.

Get your belly skills down. It's worth the time.

[weegegirl 2]

Fair enough. But even as a freeflyer, I am confident with my belly skills. I try to get in a 4way dive here and there, I participated in the scrambles this year, and I coach on my belly all the time. I think freefly has madly increased my belly-to-earth skills. Freeflying is not just sitflying or headdown, it is learning to fly on all axises of your body at any fallrate. I'm not so sure that AFF Instructors necessarily need to be on 4way teams before they go for a rating. Just sounds a bit extreme. However, I see your point and I do plan on heading to the tunnel this winter to get a couple of hours of belly work in.

Thanks everyone for the input. It has got me thinking quite a bit more realistically about what I need to do to accomplish this rating.

Bottom line is, I love to teach, I have loved using my coach rating, and the idea of taking it one step further is exciting to me. I'm asking these questions to get a better idea of how to prepare for the course.

[djmarvin 2]

Had about 1200 jumps, coached for about a year. Mainly freefly jumps and video jumps with tandems. It was still a struggle but after 7 hours of belly tunnel time it made it easy. My girlfriend just got her rating with about 350 jumps. She planned ahead and made alot of small way RW dives. Forces you to fly alot more instead of just sitting there and waiting for the formation to complete. "Fly your slot!" You will hear this in the course quite abit. I personally recommend going with the small RW dives and really concentrate on doing only that, also get together with an evalutor if possible to make some practice jumps. I know there are a few here (greensburg, in) Go to the precourse!! I highly recommend Jay Stokes course. He is very fair, but has great input to help you along.

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

[Topcat 0]

Your love of instruction makes it sound like you would make an excellent AFF instructor. I hope you do persue it; I have found it to exciting and humbling (and I have a bunch of interesting campfire stories)

I had about 650 jumps the first time I took the course; about 800 when I took it the 2nd time and passed.

Reason I failed the first time: I wasn't really prepared.

However, taking that course is what showed me exactly what I needed to work on. I aced it the 2nd time.

Learn how to fall with a variety of fall rates.
Learn to give signals to someone without holding on.
Anticipate what people are going to do (fast spins usually start as slow spins)
Learn how to stop spins and how to flip people over.
Pre-courses and private instruction are worth the price.
Practice the bottom end!

-Sandy

[bodypilot1 0]

They didn't have the Coach rating when I received my AFF Instructor rating, and the passing rate for the AFF-I course was only about 20% also I think.

I had about 500 or so jumps when I received mine.

If you like Instructing, you'll surely enjoy having the AFF rating.

Having your belly flying skills down before going to the course and having the abitilty for split second reactions, giving the correct signals and giving them freedom to learn in the air, are what you need to pass the course.
Being able to freefly too is a great tool during AFF also, as doing AFF instructing isn't always about staying on your belly.

Practice with a seasoned Instructor and learn what to teach on the ground before taking the student up in the air.
Correctly teaching the TLO's to a student on the ground, and having them completely understand what you have explained, will lead to better skydives and possibly a more relaxed student.

Just please remember, though you like to teach, an AFF rating takes ALOT of time and energy (and sometimes alot of money for the practice jumps!) and you must stay VERY current on your air skills to maintain 100% safety for you and your students.
It's NOT just a casual rating to use now and then...

Good luck in the path your taking.....

Be safe

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

I got my AFF rating with around 375 jumps. What helped me was being extremely current. I recommend spending lots of time on your belly and doing the kinds of flying that you need to fly your slot.

Freeflying won't help you much with AFF and being a coach will give you some familiarization with prepping students, giving debriefs and some in air skills training.

The thing that worked for me was getting together with some very experienced AFF-Is and getting to make some practice jumps with the evaluators beforehand.

I think I made about 15 practice jumps. It helps to be very current and I would recommend a pre-course. I did some coaching since I had my coach rating about six months before I went to the course.

I had lots of fun at the course and learned a lot. I have learned even more doing it for real. Good luck!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

I have learned even more doing it for real.

That's an understatement to say the least....
Your greatest learning comes with REAL STUDENTS!

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[tdsnyr99 0]

I used my Coach rating quite a bit prior to getting my AFF rating. But I only had the Coach rating for about four months before my AFF. Actually the only thing the Coach rating did for me was to give me some experience teaching dive flows prior to the AFF. It didn't help me at all otherwise. The type of flying you need to do for the AFF is like no other. Slot flying and manuever flying are the keys to getting the rating. RW experience can be a big help and freeflying is good too. The best advice I can give you is to get with someone who recently went through the course to coach you on what to expect. It's a hard course, and I had one of the toughest evaluators out there (Jay Stokes) but looking back I can't believe everyone out there doesn't have this rating!!

Quote

• Quote