Name this canopy # ?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi tbrown,

To the best of my knowledge no Para-Flite canopy ever 'actually' failed any TSO testing. And who would tell anyway?

I seem to remember some bad-mouthing by Tony Frost (Marana DZO) because they used a Para-Flite canopy to do the testing on a student rig they were developing; and the canopy failed during some of the testing.

If you are testing a harness/container and the canopy blows up you have not failed any test. The canopy is not undergoing the testing.

JerryBaumchen

[riggerrob 558]

First time I have heard that rumor.
Swift 5-cells passed the original TSO-C23B drop tests, but I never heard anything about re-testing them to meet TSO C23C requirements.
By the time TSO C23C was introduced, Para-Flite had learned enough that they were already working on their next generation of reserves: Swift Plus (7-cells, Spectra suspension lines, Kevlar re-inforcing tapes, etc.).
Sandy Reid started drop testing Talons with round reserves, but after tearing a few round reserves, they switched to squares.
Since the first few drops with Swift Pluses opened too slow, Para-Flite sent out a batch of sliders missing 1/4 of their fabric (triangular hole at the front of the slider). Swift Pluses passed all the drop tests with "holy" sliders, so that became the production standard.
TSO C23C drop tests on Talon 1s were completed with Swift Plus reserves.

[jimjumper 25]

When I did my rigger training at RI Sandy was still using that original rig for rigging training and it had a Swift+ with an Xxxx ser number. I was told it was used for the TSO for both the container and the reserve to save costs.

[javelin1 0]

actually, the problem with the swift reserve showed up in 1985.,and was observed at lakewood nj by a then para flite employee, Dan Doyle.Dan took the reserve in question to work that week and it was discovered that an engineer(who shall remain nameless cuz he still works there) had drafted some new rib patterns to replace worn out ones. he put them right on to the production floor w/o elek puskas 's ok.seems said engineer made front end of the rib some 2 to 3 inches thicker than the original design and this drastrically changed the fare characteristics.problem was that for some reason, no one had caught the problem till several hundred swift reserves were made from the bad patterns.

[zoobrothertom 5]

Now I remember. I had heard about the drawing switch at some point.

All of my swift reserve rides were after the modification and I had no problem with the landings. But, I think my couple of hundred jumps on a Strato Star helped. Flaring a small 5 cell is quit a bit different. Staged flares, for me anyway, will pound you in. You had to time it well and flare hard.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[DavidB 0]

Quote

actually, the problem with the swift reserve showed up in 1985.,and was observed at lakewood nj by a then para flite employee, Dan Doyle.

Now there's a name I remember from the old days. Matter of fact, I remember the incident pretty well (I was there that day). Novice female jumper cut away & HAMMERED the landing off the DZ. She never jumped again (I jumped with her BF for years after).

Two questions:

What ever happened to Danny Doyle?

Your opinions of a Swift plus 225 reserve packed 14 years ago (or where I should ask about it)?

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Now I remember. I had heard about the drawing switch at some point.

That might be what caused this SB.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[darkwing 4]

[reply... Also recall that the Swift system was the official rig of the US Team (Mirror Image and US Army) at the 1981 World Meet at Z-Hills.

[javelin1 0]

yep.that be it alrighty.

[pms07 3]

Quote

actually, the problem with the swift reserve showed up in 1985.,and was observed at lakewood nj by a then para flite employee, Dan Doyle.Dan took the reserve in question to work that week and it was discovered that an engineer(who shall remain nameless cuz he still works there) had drafted some new rib patterns to replace worn out ones. he put them right on to the production floor w/o elek puskas 's ok.seems said engineer made front end of the rib some 2 to 3 inches thicker than the original design and this drastrically changed the fare characteristics.problem was that for some reason, no one had caught the problem till several hundred swift reserves were made from the bad patterns.

Well, I believe the history you provide makes it sound like PF squared away the problem quickly. Afraid that's not completely accurate. The reserve ride I had was on canopy # R3-3046, if my rigger log is accurate. The jump I used it on happened over 4 months before the recall. I was on the phone the day of the reserve ride several times with PF and many more over the next couple of weeks as we jumped the canopy again, as well as other Swift reserves for comparison.

The recall notice, I believe is dated sometime in January 86...4+ months after the jump in question. I heard there were at least one or two other bad canopies with the same problem, in the recalled range of serial #s, in that time gap as well. I cannot substantiate that however.

Anyway, I suppose my logbooks and memory could be inaccurate...but that's how I remember it.

[mjosparky 3]

Check the attachment on post #23. It gives the SB date and the Ser.# affected. It lists R3-2750 thru R2-3471. That’s more like 721 not one or two others.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pms07 3]

Sparky,
I have the recall notice still in my rigger log and know the range/number of canopies recalled; correct, it was 721. What I said, perhaps not clearly enough, was there were one or two others that were jumped and found to be bad...prior to the recall being implemented...over that gap of over 4 months from the one that I found until the recall was sent out... Clear now?

Pat

[zoobrothertom 5]

You know, one of the reasons I bought a Swift reserve back then was its reputation for quick openings.

But..., the more I think about it, the only thing I can recall is the story about some woman falling out of a DC-3 at about 300ft while dropping static lines for testing of some other canopy. Airspeed probably had a lot to do with it so I figured that pins cleared above that would probably open at terminal.

Anyone else remember this?

BTW, I did have about a 500+ foot sniveling subterminal opening on my Swift after a CRW wrap in '99. Cutaway at about 750ft and scared the shit out of myself watching the trees come up oh too quickly. Only enough time to unstow the brakes, do a flat flaring 180 and slide it in.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[beenthere 0]

Not that it really matters, but I checked an old logbook from the 79 meet and the entry was "cruiser/SF". In 79 Mirror Image jumped Cruise-Air mains and (SF) Safety Flyer? reserves in Chateauroux France. Trained in Pope Valley that year with Units/26 lopo's. The 81 M.I. team did use Swifts in the newly introduced Vectors at the World Meet. The mains had to be made twice because one of the panels was from the wrong template, and the pretty RW&B canopies turned out to be mostly blue because of a fabric shortage.

[dunderhead1 0]

yeah...i think i know what canopy it is, it`s the Stingray from corvus corporation...i jumped it back in the day in the early 80`s..i also jumped a 6 cells prototype on the same design, didn`t work out that good

[tbrown 26]

Quote

First time I have heard that rumor.
Swift 5-cells passed the original TSO-C23B drop tests, but I never heard anything about re-testing them to meet TSO C23C requirements.
By the time TSO C23C was introduced, Para-Flite had learned enough that they were already working on their next generation of reserves: Swift Plus (7-cells, Spectra suspension lines, Kevlar re-inforcing tapes, etc.).
Sandy Reid started drop testing Talons with round reserves, but after tearing a few round reserves, they switched to squares.
Since the first few drops with Swift Pluses opened too slow, Para-Flite sent out a batch of sliders missing 1/4 of their fabric (triangular hole at the front of the slider). Swift Pluses passed all the drop tests with "holy" sliders, so that became the production standard.
TSO C23C drop tests on Talon 1s were completed with Swift Plus reserves.

It's been over twenty years and i can't be sure anymore because I have nothing in print in front of me. But the article I remember reading in Skydiving Magazine was about the new TSO testing to the new Rev C of TSO-C23. As I recall, the article said that all the existing round reserves, as well as some existing square reserves, the Swift included, If I had more to back this up, I'd say so. But all I have is a long, if imperfect memoery.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[brokenwing 1]

What other "vintage" rigs were jumped?

I made a few jumps there back in the 70s

[SStewart 13]

I was jumping a Corsair container with two swifts. Others were mostly old Wonderhogs or Strongs, I think one Rapid Transit, and a few others I did not recognize. Some had belly bands, most were legstrap pilot chutes. I modified mine to a boc.


The mains were various 7 cells from the 80's, a few ravens, an XL cloud, and a few others that I am not sure of. The tags and lables were either faded or missing so it was hard to tell. I was the only one with a square reserve.

Onward and Upward!