DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Galen's account is specific as 'fire out of the end of the plane'! So the witness saw the event very early.

Doesn't anyone have a problem with this accounting. If it was too overcast for Cooper to SEE the lights and land markers - HOW the blankety blank did a witness see the fire out of the end of the plane?

=====================

Quote

Flare would be a brilliant point source with sky glow (ball of fire?).

Then why has everyone contended Cooper could NOT see lighted land marks?

The flight of that plane is exactly as I have contended it was yrs ago - and was verified by phone today - this man knows what he was talking about. It has always been stated the plane flew not too far from an old airport North of the old 500. The plane made its curve to the West below Battlefield and the Brush Prairie area with South Easterly bearings
passing not too far from what was then called the Scholls Airport still bearing South East to stay out of the populated areas and within search and rescue perimeters crossing the Columbia with approximates at McGuire Island keeping Troutdale airport to the East of the plane.

At this point the crew felt secure that Cooper was gone but ordered on to Reno.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I love that Jo is still taking the details seriously!

I mean this ain't pinochle! We got facts here.

Can you imagine the injustice of Duane doing the hijack, but it gets lost to history because everyone is messing with the facts! That's worst than an FBI coverup!

Here's a video of Duane singing when he was young
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY

more classic Jerry Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yRdDnrB5kM&feature=related

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Galen's account is specific as 'fire out of the end of the plane'! So the witness saw the event very early.

Doesn't anyone have a problem with this accounting. If it was too overcast for Cooper to SEE the lights and land markers - HOW the blankety blank did a witness see the fire out of the end of the plane?

=====================

Quote

Flare would be a brilliant point source with sky glow (ball of fire?).

Then why has everyone contended Cooper could NOT see lighted land marks?

The flight of that plane is exactly as I have contended it was yrs ago - and was verified by phone today - this man knows what he was talking about. It has always been stated the plane flew not too far from an old airport North of the old 500. The plane made its curve to the West below Battlefield and the Brush Prairie area with South Easterly bearings
passing not too far from what was then called the Scholls Airport still bearing South East to stay out of the populated areas and within search and rescue perimeters crossing the Columbia with approximates at McGuire Island keeping Troutdale airport to the East of the plane.

At this point the crew felt secure that Cooper was gone but ordered on to Reno.

Yes you have cited clearly one account. Congrats on
your clarity for a change! I wish your witness would surface? He might as well - everyone else seems to be surfacing.

There is another whole slate of accounts of him
jumping on the Oregon side, from FBI agents no
less. Maybe I will liven the mix and start posting
a few of those, all AP wire stories or similar just
after the hijacking...

Congrats on your clarity this evening. Keep it up!

[Farflung 0]

So Cooper the grizzled veteran of combat has planned to huck flares out the tail cone of a 727 like a C-130 evading heat seeking missiles. Versus wearing some passive IR goggles searching for his DZ.

His accomplice could have strategically placed IR strobes which would not be noticed by people on the ground and placed in a pattern Cooper would easily recognize. Nope too easy.

[Orange1 0]

look, um apart from the fact that we have still unnamed 'witnesses' (sounds like um someone else we know except that we can be pretty sure there will at least be something sometime, albeit in a book) .. i didn't see anything in the description that was necessarily "flare" sent on purpose. As opposed to, for example, the briefcase catching alight as it was chucked out (now that just might explain why it never got found) or Cooper himself going down in a blaze of glory (which might explain why he never got found).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

Wouldnt that be something if Cooper's bomb was real? Everyone (including me) thinks it was the old road flares and dry cell fake deal.

I dont think an explosion would have a long light persistance. If the bomb was in the briefcase I'd expect it to blow it into pieces rather than ignite a big chunk.

Jo keeps saying on posts and in PMs that she has put Duane in a parachute, but as expected, never posts any supporting evidence. She could teach the FBI something about coverups.

The story about a supposed MIB/FBI SA telling a 'red fireball' witness to "keep his f---ing mouth shut" makes no sense. Why would they care if the story was publicized?

Galen Cook never seemed like a nut case to me in my communications with him, so don't assume that he has gone native with the Coast to Coast AM crowd just yet. I'd wait and see what he is getting at before tossing him in the nut jar.

How did Himmelsbach afford a Beechcraft Bonanza on an FBI salary? Just a question not an accusation. The FBI, especially in those days, payed really low salaries. Even today they are low when you compare them with local cops who only need a 2 year degree. Quite a few FBI SAs have graduate degrees like PhDs, JDs, etc. My friend who is ex FBI was a lawyer and made about 25% of what lawyers with comparable credentials were making in law firms at the time. Ckret is dieing to say AMEN on the low salary issue, but he is not allowed to post.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Wouldnt that be something if Cooper's bomb was real? Everyone (including me) thinks it was the old road flares and dry cell fake deal.

No way for a flare to ignite accidentally? I didn't mean to suggest it really was a bomb. Sorry, I don't know much about flares (other than they turn a blind eye to the ones set off in the harbour on new year's eve - I presume it is also illegal to send off a flare unless in distress in the US)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

"Fusee" type road flares are VERY unlikely to accidently ignite. Gun launched flares could by ignited by impact, but the red "sticks" Cooper had appear more like road flares than flare gun types.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Wouldnt that be something if Cooper's bomb was real? Everyone (including me) thinks it was the old road flares and dry cell fake deal.

No way for a flare to ignite accidentally? I didn't mean to suggest it really was a bomb. Sorry, I don't know much about flares (other than they turn a blind eye to the ones set off in the harbour on new year's eve - I presume it is also illegal to send off a flare unless in distress in the US)

to consider...

[georger 197]

Quote

Farflung wrote:

Quote

Those unknown explosions which create oft witnessed mushroom clouds have long held me transfixed.

Me too!

There are some episodes that never made the major press. In the late 70s a solo female sailor in a Suntory sponsored sailboat race from the US to Japan made a frantic radio call saying she was witnessing an atomic explosion and feared for her life. Her description was nearly identical to the one supplied by the JAL 747 crew, but took place years earlier than their sighting. Many thought she was hallucinating from lack of sleep, but the later JAL accounts make me think she saw exactly the same phenomena.

No light flash. No residual radioactivity. No sesimic event at the reported musroom cloud location.

What could it have been?


http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/21/science/a-year-after-mushroom-cloud-the-mystery-lingers.html?&pagewanted=1

377

A close encounter of the Coast-to-Coast kind.
Life is boring and tragic.
People who keep having apparitions usually
wind up Senators or in Congress and Banking.

[Guru312 0]

Quote

No way for a flare to ignite accidentally? )

I can't speak for ALL flares because there are too many types and configurations but accidental ignition is almost impossible except by extreme physical pressure, fire or extreme heat,

The flare system I co-invented made the WW II Very pistol obsolete for many reasons, not the least of which being compact size, portability and ease of use. Our device, with seven cartridges, fit easily into the sleeve pocket of flight coveralls. They are now referred to by the military designation: Illumination Signal Kit Mk 79 Mod 0.

In the unlikely event that DB did carry flares I seriously doubt it was a Very pistol with multiple carts. I agree with 377 that he didn't use a fuzee either.

If old DB was carrying a flare system, it was probably mine. No, wait, that doesn't read correctly, don't forget I am not DB Cooper.

See my flare system: http://www.aicommand.com/SURVIV_7.jpg The picture is from a U. S. Navy aircrew manual.

I've received some wonderful emails over the years from Viet Nam vets who were saved by using our Survival 7 flares. Unfortunately, I've received many more comments from guys who loved to shoot them off on the 4th of July or when they were drunk and just raising hell. I would love to discover that DB was using our system.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

ok this is weird timing, I had casually mentioned Bucky the cat, but his story unexpectedly ended this week. Bucky had this growth on his leg bone that grew dramatically this last week, doctor said cancer (kidney issues too), so we put him to sleep. He was 14-15 years old. Was the oldest animal in the house.

Although I'm not a cat person, he was a nice cat. Kind of small because the mom was feral I guess. The litter was just him and Molly. My daughter named them both. They were apparently from different male cats (that happens) even though they were the same litter. Molly was a manx, no tail. Bucky was a dusty white with brown tiger-like stripes, with tail.

I don't think we've ever had pets from birth..all ours our from someone else. Except Bucky and Molly. So here's Bucky birth story...

My wife had always liked to joke that whenever she went away, things went haywire. Well she left on some trip somewhere, and we had this rental house at the time.

I must have left the garage door open or something, but one morning I opened the middle drawer in the dresser to get some jeans...and there was a bunch of fur.
Half asleep I quickly slid the drawer closed again and tried to wake up my brain.."Did I just imagine that?"

I opened the drawer again, and the mom cat jumped out and ran out the door. I thought "That's weird". Then I thought I had seen something else. I opened the drawer again, and there were two kittens.

I guess somehow I had left the drawer open, and the mom cat had come in with her kittens into the bedroom while I was sleeping and climbed in the drawer with them (carrying each in her mouth). And I must have closed the drawer at some time.

In any case, I thought I had to reconnect them, and put them in a box in the garage, but the mom would have none of that and moved them in the crawlspace under the house. Eventually moving them farther and farther from where I could see them.

That all eventually led to a crawlspace safari (no matter how I tried to block all the openings to the crawlspace, mom cat always found the one opening not blocked.." and mom cat trapping (which I fooled her by getting the kittens and putting them in a crate with a string/rubber band setup that I triggered when she went in to get the kittens).

Molly was the little kitten I sawed thru the floor for. I thought I had gotten the location right, but just couldn't find anything after I cut thru...finally stretching really far into some pipes, found a lump of fur which I thought was dead, but it was Molly.

Mom cat went to the shelter (too feral) and the kittens stayed with us.

I guess we had Louie the big old cat at the time, who taught them everything they needed to know about being cats.

All said, Bucky was a pretty good cat and had a pretty good life, and accumulated his share of pelts from the outside world and got his head rubbed a lot and got to sleep on the bed away from the dogs during the day.

RIP Bucky kitty.

[snowmman 3]

on Flare guns

I liked the story my friend tells.
We had a common crazy-guy friend. They were driving around and fired off a flare gun and lit some guy's lawn on fire.

But the hair-raiser happened before that. My friend is riding passenger in the front seat and reaches down and pulls up the flare pistol and says "what's this?" and points it at the driver...the driver nervously says to put it down, because he had it loaded with a shotgun shell.

Do shotgun shells of some size fit in the normal flare pistols? I always wondered about that story.

[377 21]

Quote

See my flare system: http://www.aicommand.com/SURVIV_7.jpg The picture is from a U. S. Navy aircrew manual.

Very cool Guru! Never knew you were a co-inventor.

My friend who was a USAF PJ carried your flare system. I recognize the launcher pen.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Quote

Do shotgun shells of some size fit in the normal flare pistols? I always wondered about that story.

YES! 12 guage.

http://www.noedelscientific.com/user/Flaregun1.pdf

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

See my flare system: http://www.aicommand.com/SURVIV_7.jpg The picture is from a U. S. Navy aircrew manual.

Very cool Guru! Never knew you were a co-inventor.

My friend who was a USAF PJ carried your flare system. I recognize the launcher pen.

377

Hell I can remember training a bunch of numbnuts how to fire that thing.... and the same with the gyrojet that replaced it...

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Do shotgun shells of some size fit in the normal flare pistols? I always wondered about that story.

YES! 12 guage.

http://www.noedelscientific.com/user/Flaregun1.pdf

377

Yup.. and I know a guy with one less triger finger that did it... in one of the freakin cheapo plastic orange flare guns they sell at West Marine

The worst part was... there was no alcohol involved

[377 21]

Do you remember those rocket propelled .22 rounds Guru? I think MBAssociates made them. They were sold retail for a while.

Bored fishermen on their way in would wage running rocket wars with them. Steel boats, a lot of distance between them, nobody on deck, not much chance of harm.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Yeah, you made fun of me, out there pouring 6 ft thick 10k psi concrete with #9 rebar in the cold and rain.

but today I read
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/license-kill-intelligence-chief-us-american-terrorist/story?id=9740491

"The director of national intelligence affirmed rather bluntly today that the U.S. intelligence community has authority to target American citizens for assassination if they present a direct terrorist threat to the United States."

Note that before they were debating the legitimacy of assassination of US citizens on non-US soil. As far as I can tell, they're making no difference between US and non-US soil assassinations of US citizens.

When the stimulus money starts putting Predator drones in the hands of North Dakota county sheriffs, don't come crawling to me looking for a seat in the bunker.

The survivalists have it right. They just misidentified the source of the missles.

Somehow though, I find comfort in knowing that the end will come with a 20 year old with a itchy finger on the joystick on the other side, staring at a monitor, slamming a Mountain Dew with the other hand, having been well trained on a Xbox 360.

"We don't target people for free speech. We target them for taking action that threatens Americans."

What, he's saying free speech isn't a threat? Bullshit. Free speech and free thinking is a threat to the American way of life.

Isn't it weird that he feels compelled to say he's not going to kill someone for what they say? As if he's thought about it, and decided not to...like it was on the table?

I would hope there's a whole list of reasons why they don't target people. But I don't know. Maybe speech is the only safe thing? Is that what he's saying?

I guess some Wall Street assassinations are being planned. Toyota also. What about the GM guys? shouldn't they have been taken out, not just fired?

"The homegrown radicalization of people in the United States…is a relatively new thing"

Uh, what was going on in the '60s? People got killed then.

[hangdiver 1]

Sorry to here about your cat snow, I know what it's like to lose pets or put them down.
When my son was in Afghanistan, as a sniper, the only thing he felt bad about shooting were the dogs. I guess they have wild dogs over there and were told to shoot to kill.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

Ya, those flare pens are pretty cool. In the early 70's the sister of my girlfriend at the time was married to a Marine aircraft crew chief who gave me one.
Her dad was on a drunk binge and fired it off in our living room.
He was sitting in a recliner and I was sitting across the room on the couch telling him to be careful.
He was trying to cock the thing and the thumb lever kept slipping off his thumb going click, click, click until it fired.
I don't know how many times that flare flew around the room but it was spectacular.
The funniest thing was it stopped under his chair and caught it on fire.
I guess we were lucky it didn't hit one of us.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Ya, those flare pens are pretty cool. In the early 70's the sister of my girlfriend at the time was married to a Marine aircraft crew chief who gave me one.
Her dad was on a drunk binge and fired it off in our living room.
He was sitting in a recliner and I was sitting across the room on the couch telling him to be careful.
He was trying to cock the thing and the thumb lever kept slipping off his thumb going click, click, click until it fired.
I don't know how many times that flare flew around the room but it was spectacular.
The funniest thing was it stopped under his chair and caught it on fire.
I guess we were lucky it didn't hit one of us.

see there's the difference between whuffo stories and skydiver stories.

A whuffo (me) will tell a story about a flare gun, and it's fired out of the car and lights someone lawn on fire. And that's the story.

A skydiver will tell a story about a flare gun, and there's alcohol, and it's inside a house flying around the room, and ends up burning a chair up while someone keeps sitting there and drinking.

Which is why a whuffo has to make up as many things as he can. Even the wildest imagination is sometimes insufficient, and computerized random story generation is required to one-up...

(edit) And of course, if Amazon gets drawn in, there's going to be something about body parts being blown off, i.e. don't even bother competing.

[1969912 0]

Sorry about your cat. RIP.

I lost a 15 year old cat last year.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Sorry about your cat. RIP.

I lost a 15 year old cat last year.

yeah, it's weird they have such short lives relative to humans. Makes you realize how amazing it is we get to live so long.

Can you imagine if we really did only have only 15 years to live? Good reminder to live in the moment.

[georger 197]

Quote

Sorry about your cat. RIP.

I lost a 15 year old cat last year.

Any more news?