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quade

DB Cooper

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I wonder if Cooper had a gambling rather than opiate addiction? I have dealt with a lot of heroin addicts during my time working in a public defenders office. This is a big generalization, but they seemed to be looking for the next $100, never the next $100,000. They did burgs, shoplifting, prostitution, street robberies... all low ticket crimes. Ckret has dealt with tons of bank robbers. How many were junkies Ckret?

Gambling debts can become huge and your life is in danger if you don't pay a mob related debt. A TWA captain in the 1980s was busted hauling 20lb lots of heroin in his flight bag. Why? Gambling debts.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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...........my first post to dizzy was in this thread.




Better here than some useless thread in Speaker's Corner:ph34r:

(EDITED)

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

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Good observation... I have always felt we were dealing with someone who needed a massive amount of (1971 value) cash FAST, and a compulsive gambler fits the profile... also helps explain his HIGH RISK escape strategy versus just robbing a bank.

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Ckret can update us, but back when I was doing crim law the avg bank solo robber seemed to get really small hauls, seemed to average less than $7500 in the 70s. Cooper needed big bucks fast. Bank robberies did not bring big bucks in most cases. Bank robberies seemed really stupid to me. Huge risk, small reward, big fed court sentences.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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From some internet searching I did I discovered that the FBI originally stopped investigating Duane as a suspect in 1998 - well before ckret arrived on the scene - due to a lack of evidence against him. All the work ckret has done since, including the DNA and reopening files on him, has simply backed that up.



That is not true - WHY did they call me OUT OF THE BLUE in late 2002 asking for his DNA. I had things I needed to take care of and told Agent Hope he would have to wait as I had wait a long time on them.
The DNA was collected on Mar. 27 2003.

Orange I will remind you that I have answered this before from you or someone else in both treads. I am sure Ckrets FBI file will verify what I have just told.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Presumably because they finally managed to get some DNA evidence off the tie in 2002. The reference to closing the investigation in 1998 is in a number of sites and DNA testing was not standard in 1998 was it? Of course, you don't accept the DNA evidence anyway. The fact that they called for you DNA kind of argues against your theory of a whitewash doesn't it - rather to a logical person another indication that the FBI was actually trying to solve the case.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Presumably because they finally managed to get some DNA evidence off the tie in 2002. The reference to closing the investigation in 1998 is in a number of sites and DNA testing was not standard in 1998 was it? Of course, you don't accept the DNA evidence anyway. The fact that they called for you DNA kind of argues against your theory of a whitewash doesn't it - rather to a logical person another indication that the FBI was actually trying to solve the case.



Excuse Me! Would you lilke to hear a recording of that conversation? My answering machine was picking up before I grabbed the phone.

Also, WHY? did the FBIi NOT test that DNA until the end of 2007 and in early 2008. REMEMBER -I have the FBI report they accidentally leftt in the box with the DNA when it was returned to me in March of 2008.

Again Orange this has been stated in the other forum and this forum.
I do not want to post, but statements like the last two cause me to have to defend myself.

Ask Ckret. ALL of this should be in HIS file on Duane and Cooper.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I'm totally lost.
I think we have to start this thread over. Do we vote or something?

I found a new thing in Tosaw's book we've not discussed. Oxygen tanks in the compartment over Cooper.

Is that myth or true?



Passenger oxygen for drop down masks on the 727-100 is generated individually by exothermic chem reactor cans, not supplied from overhead tanks. Remember the Value Jet crash in the Everglades? Those cans get HOT.

Perhaps Tosaw is referring to the portable oxygen tanks that are stowed in the overhead luggage compartments.
Most flights carry a couple for medical emergencies. Don't know which compartment they were normally stowed in on NWA 727s.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I found a new thing in Tosaw's book we've not discussed. Oxygen tanks in the compartment over Cooper.

Is that myth or true?



Most beliefs about oxygen and skydiving are whuffo-centric. Skydivers understand that you don't need oxygen at 10k except after 30 minutes.

I can't remember if this has been answered before: did the pilots fly at 10k MSL or AGL? Also, what is the average field elevation for the areas that were over flown? The last time I got a little hypoxic we were flying at about 8k AGL and was on the 5th pass for swoopers. Then again, the field elevation was over 5k MSL.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Passenger oxygen for drop down masks on the 727-100 is generated individually by exothermic chem reactor cans, not supplied from overhead tanks. Remember the Value Jet crash in the Everglades? Those cans get HOT.

Perhaps Tosaw is referring to the portable oxygen tanks that are stowed in the overhead luggage compartments.
Most flights carry a couple for medical emergencies. Don't know which compartment they were normally stowed in on NWA 727s.

377





Since I haven’t read Tosaw’s book (or any book about NORJAK, I’m in the dark about why Oxygen is the topic of interest, But, it is not often that I get to correct 377. So I will relish this opportunity and play it for all it is worth. Therefore I have assembled (from Boeing Manuals) ample indication that Oxygen bottles are found throughout Boeing-727s. Emphasis is mine. See Attached System Diagram

There are two fixed oxygen systems, one for the cockpit and one for the cabin. In addition there may be up to five portable oxygen bottles. One in the cockpit and four located throughout cabin. Oxygen for both systems, cockpit and cabin is provided by high-pressure cylinders. Three cylinders are located along the right wall of the electronic equipment compartment. The forward cylinder provides oxygen to the cockpit. The other two cylinders provide oxygen to the cabin system.

Each cylinder has its own shutoff valves, pressure gauge and overpressure relief. In the event any cylinder overpressure, a valve relieves all of that bottle's oxygen. It will be dumped overboard through the overpressure discharge line, common to all three cylinders. The overboard discharge port is located on the right side of the fuselage just below the E & E cooling exhaust and is sealed with a green disc. The overpressure discharge lines from all three cylinders vent through this one port. a missing green disc indicates a possible thermal overpressure discharge from one or more cylinders. If the disc is missing or broken, relief may have taken place and further investigation is required.

The high pressure of the oxygen from the crew cylinder is lowered by a reducer/regulator. Lower pressure then flows to the cockpit shut-off valve. This shut-off is located on the sidewall just aft of the F/0 seat. Oxygen from the reducer/regulator flows to each individual regulator and mask in the cockpit.

Minimum crew oxygen pressure is normally around 1200 PSI for dispatch and is read on the gauge located top centre of F/E panel. This gauge is an electrical repeater of the pressure gauge on the bottle and operates when the aircraft is powered.

All cockpit oxygen regulators are diluter demand type. At the top right of the regulator is the flow indicator, which blinks when oxygen is flowing to the mask. The supply lever is a two position off /on selector on the lower right.

The normal position of the lever is at all times ON. To the left of the supply lever is the oxygen lever. This lever should always be in the 100% position in preparation for immediate use in the event of smoke, contaminated air in the cockpit or a depressurisation at altitude. The last lever to the left is the emergency lever. UP is the ON position. This lever provides 100% oxygen to the mask at a slight overpressure, regardless of the position of the oxygen lever. The OFF position of the emergency lever allows the oxygen lever to regulate the oxygen flow, 100% or diluter demand as selected. The masks in the cockpit are of the "quick-donning", or "sweep-on" type. The oxygen / boom selector for the flight engineer is located on his jack box. The boom position is deactivated. His oxygen mask mike is activated by the associated push to talk button, labelled "PTT". For the pilots, the oxygen/boom selector is on their respective jack boxes. They also have a PTT (push to talk) button.

When selected to oxygen and mike selection is in PA, the associated oxygen mike is "HOT''. The BOOM position is deactivated on some airplanes. and the oxygen position should always be selected. Then the push to talk button or the rocker switch on the rear of each control wheel will activate the oxygen mike to what ever is selected to transmit.

Cockpit indication of passenger oxygen system pressure is read on the electrical repeater gauge next to the crew oxygen pressure gauge on the top centre of the SIC panel. Minimum pressure for dispatch is around 1450 psi for the passenger oxygen system. Oxygen from the two passenger cylinders flows from a common manifold into two paths. The pressure is reduced by two parallel pressure reducing regulators and the flow is controlled by two flow valves. Downstream of the two valves the two paths rejoin. When either flow valve is opened, oxygen pressurizes the passenger oxygen manifold, causing a pressure switch to illuminate an amber light. When cabin oxygen is required, one or both of these valves opens. The valve can be opened on of three ways, Pneumatically, electrically or manually. Both valves are designed to open pneumatically when cabin altitude exceeds 14,000 feet. One opens electrically by use of the oxygen switch on the FE panel, and the other by using the manual "T" handle located on the FE aux panel below the APU control panel or under floor access panel on the 100 series. This '"T" handle can be used to close and reset both valves when oxygen is no longer needed, regardless of how the valves are activated. When the cabin oxygen manifold is pressurized. The surge of pressure trips the latches on the oxygen mask doors and the doors open. Four masks are then dropped at each passenger service unit and two at each flight attendant's station and in the lavatories.

Oxygen is now available to each mask valve in the cabin. In order to establish Flow, the user must pull down the mask. This action extracts the valve activating pin to allow flow of oxygen. The mask delivers oxygen diluted with cabin air to the user depending on cabin altitude. If the automatic system does not open them, pushing a sharp object into a slot can open the passenger doors. Flight attendant doors can be opened by moving a latch to the side, if the automatic system failed. Lavatory doors are similar to the flight attendants doors. The three ways of terminating oxygen flow are:
1. The valve can be closed by reinserting the pin into the shut-off valve assembly.
2. By pushing the manual toggles on the ends of the shut-off valves to there up position.
3. By pushing the "T" handle to reset, all the way down for 5 seconds to dump the oxygen manifold pressure, and then back to the "OFF" position. This will close both valves.

There is insufficient oxygen flow below 10,000' cabin altitude for passenger use. At a cabin altitude of 10,000’ an intermittent horn will sound and can be silenced by a cutout button on the pressurization panel.

Portable Oxygen Bottles
There are approximately five portable oxygen bottles aboard the airplane. Four bottles in the cabin are for passenger use, and one with a full face mask is carried in the cockpit. Each bottle has a yellow shut-off knob and pressure gauge.

Sluggo_Monster

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Passenger oxygen for drop down masks on the 727-100 is generated individually by exothermic chem reactor cans, not supplied from overhead tanks. Remember the Value Jet crash in the Everglades? Those cans get HOT.

Perhaps Tosaw is referring to the portable oxygen tanks that are stowed in the overhead luggage compartments.
Most flights carry a couple for medical emergencies. Don't know which compartment they were normally stowed in on NWA 727s.

377



I don't know what Tosaw was referring to. He said not all 727's have them, but this flight did, and when they have them they carry them in that compartment, which was apparently near Cooper.

Do we know what compartment oxygen tanks for medical emergencies would be stored? Is it true that not all flights would have them? Supposedly there was an exchange between Tina and Cooper also, but I'm initially just curious about any tanks. It got me thinking about how we discussed the seat selection. I was wondering if there could have been knowledge of these oxygen tanks, if present. Tosaw implies yes.

Do we have a pic of the tiebar coming from Ckret? The set I posted I think is pretty close. If we can't get a good one from Ckret, I think we'll have to use mine? Ckret said the mother-of-pearl size was a little different on the real one. I'm interested in seeing that detail.

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Presumably because they finally managed to get some DNA evidence off the tie in 2002. The reference to closing the investigation in 1998 is in a number of sites and DNA testing was not standard in 1998 was it? Of course, you don't accept the DNA evidence anyway. The fact that they called for you DNA kind of argues against your theory of a whitewash doesn't it - rather to a logical person another indication that the FBI was actually trying to solve the case.



Orange1:
I've read the DNA was extracted from the tie in 2001.
Where did you get the 2002 reference?

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so this oxygen detail sounds pretty interesting. How come it hasn't been mentioned in this thread before? or has it?

It reminds me of the Dan Cooper comic book thing...That wasn't in the case files, if I remember correctly. We've not discussed it for a while.

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We watched "Heat" for the 3 billionth time. Lucky with DVDs you don't have to worry about stretching the tape.

Name the character:

"Jimmy - whatsisname - Bohunk, in the joint used to say: "On the street you wanna be makin' roves, you don't put anything in your life you can't walk out in 30 seconds flat if you spot heat around the corner"

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Back before when I got banned, I had this weird theory that maybe you guys were all bad guys stealing credit card data from computers or whatever. So I thought "How do I know Ckret is really Ckret?"...so I called up the fbi phone number in Seattle, and left a message for Neo with my name and phone number and address. So Ckret would have no problem finding me if it sounds like I'm a bad guy.

I figure: no tear gas cannisters at night, surfers delight!

JOKE!

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Orange1:
I've read the DNA was extracted from the tie in 2001.
Where did you get the 2002 reference?



The "presumably" meant "presumption"! From Jo's post that the FBI contacted her in 2002. Not that it matters much (I presume), as she said she only got the DNA to them sometime in 2003.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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I wonder if Cooper had a gambling rather than opiate addiction? I have dealt with a lot of heroin addicts during my time working in a public defenders office. This is a big generalization, but they seemed to be looking for the next $100, never the next $100,000. They did burgs, shoplifting, prostitution, street robberies... all low ticket crimes. Ckret has dealt with tons of bank robbers. How many were junkies Ckret?

Gambling debts can become huge and your life is in danger if you don't pay a mob related debt. A TWA captain in the 1980s was busted hauling 20lb lots of heroin in his flight bag. Why? Gambling debts.



The vast majority of bank robbers are herion addicts who only get between $1,000 to $2,000. The average take is skewed because of takeover bandits when they get into the vault. Depending which branch they hit they get $50,000 to $100,000 (very rare).

No way Cooper went into the bathroom and shot up, if he did he would come out, sit in his seat and nod off.

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http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/furdress/furdress.htm

The whole article is good data, but I like this part:

"Experience has demonstrated that no racket can long exist without:

* political affiliation and protection;
* terrified witnesses who, although willing to do their duty, are confronted with the fact that duty performed is meaningless and an open invitation to terrorism and brutal retaliation; and
* lackadaisical, haphazard, inefficient, and apathetic law enforcement."

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I'm totally lost.
I think we have to start this thread over. Do we vote or something?

I found a new thing in Tosaw's book we've not discussed. Oxygen tanks in the compartment over Cooper.

Is that myth or true?



Passenger oxygen for drop down masks on the 727-100 is generated individually by exothermic chem reactor cans, not supplied from overhead tanks. Remember the Value Jet crash in the Everglades? Those cans get HOT.

Perhaps Tosaw is referring to the portable oxygen tanks that are stowed in the overhead luggage compartments.
Most flights carry a couple for medical emergencies. Don't know which compartment they were normally stowed in on NWA 727s.

377



Tina told Cooper that they may need oxygen flying at 10,000 feet and she started to tell him where the supplemental tanks could be found. Cooper stated, "I know where they are." No big mystery.

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ok, quade please don't ban me for this.

A number of pages ago, I bragged that Russian Roulette, one bullet in the chamber. me and Ckret...that Ckret would blow first.

A way I used to put it: Two dicks on the chopping block...who pulls back first?



Did you take those two days off we talked about?

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