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quade

DB Cooper

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Jo, No one got your "code" because such a claim is pure baloney. And that is a credit to the other members of this thread.

Robert99



DO U want to bank your RETIREMENT on that? Probably NOT!

The code is NOT baloney! It did exist and for what reason I do not know. WHY would someone even make-up such a code?

U are absolutely a moron if you believe EVERY THING in Wikipedia! If you do then tell me who the author of the Weber article was? It is not accurate and I do NOT go there - the last time was maybe 5 yrs ago.

Are they now making the authors authenticate their information? I doubt that!



You are the one who made up the "code" so answer your own question.

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Side Note: Cat I adopted a few months ago is fully recovered now. He had a hurt foot and had to wear the Elizabethan collar and bandages for almost two months. ... I finally took him in, took him to the vet, and then kept him for good. A more polite cat you've never seen.
-----------------------------------------------------------
What a nice thing you did Blevins! I have raised, loved, and cared for many cats (mainly Manx) over the years. I think they're the best pet in the world. You're not so bad afterall. That was a wonderful thing you did there, and the kitty looks great.

MeyerLouie

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie

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If you Volunteer, before getting Drafted, you stand a better chance of getting a "Good job" and not having to be exposed to deadly direct fire.

Matt



Half of the population couldn't even volunteer to be exposed to deadly fire even if they wanted to!!!


Hi AJ

I resemble that remark;)

Relying on what any military recruiter to be able to deliver what he promised does work sometimes. Depening on the needs of the service when you graduate from basic training. IMO..

Never saw the upside to volunteer t be exposed to direct dadly fire during a war. Thats why we had a ocio economic draft before the lottery. Send me your poor and save the folks in college.

Some people were able to dodge the draft by enlisting in the Air force. 4yr's in the air force vs 2-3 in the army?

Even in the air force some peope didn't get the job they were promised by their recruiter. Soome got a better job, some got a worse job. It was a crap shoot for some people..

R.

Did I

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie



I believe he works for the county - Planning &
Zoning, something like that. Safe may have been
the one who concocted the fake money find - using
modern twenties no less. Was kind of funny. It was
covered here - do a search.

Logic? No. Just Safe's version of informal logic - he
picked the idea up somewhere. His intentions were
good but his results were meaningless and full of
contradictions. For one thing, Safe had but a few of
the real-world logical options covered in the
premises he made - but he loves to make videos.
Nice young man. It sounded good while it lasted -
he had Ckret going ! B|

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There's Kaye's research, other research, your theories and mine on the money. I don't know..

I theorized that maybe the money was a plant sometime after the Statute of Limitations was due to expire in 1976. As we know, the FBI rushed through a John Doe warrant specifically restricted to the hijacker. (You've probably read it on the FBI's PDF, so did I)

Perhaps the hijacker was counting the days until the Statute was due to run out. I thought this because when I interviewed bad guys in prison, the bank robbery guys said they did this if the FBI hadn't figured their identity yet. I.E. once the statute expired they would be free and clear on that particular robbery, and a couple of them said you don't forget that date easily. You know...one guy told me he worried every time he answered the door LOL, until the statute expired. But, then he did another one and got caught. :S

NOTE: If a suspect in a felony is identified, then the cops can get a warrant and keep renewing it until they catch you. The Statute of Limitations only applies when they don't know who they are looking for.

If Cooper survived, it's almost certain that unless he was really stupid and unafraid of consequences, he might have checked on the statute. Or read about it, or heard about it in the news when the date approached. When they extended it with the Doe warrant, I'll bet he was worried or pissed off big-time. And maybe that's how the money ended up on Tena Bar.

And I know it's kind of simple, but if you believe the official version of the flight path, and the approximate jump point, the chances Cooper hit land and not water are not bad. The only thing I can't figure is WHY he would pick Tena Bar to do a red herring plant and not a more heavily used area along the Columbia. There is another problem, too. Why would the hijacker pick a spot supposedly so far off the flight path? You'd think he would know from the newspapers and all the publicity. (where approximately the path was) Or...he WANTED people to think he jumped further south and went into the Columbia. Or...he DID.

Tena Bar: Created more questions than the answers it provided.



Actually, this statute of limitations thing is all bullschidt anyway. Since Duane passed the hijacking note before the passengers were released, the charges could be raised to kidnapping which has no limitations. But since it was a Government plot and they wanted it to go away, they blocked the pathway to the real instigators of the Project, which may or may not be judged a crime by a jury. Carr says the FBI would not be able to prosecute with these facts, some State Prosecutors would like to try to nail the FBI and the FAA at least. And a short list of conspirators before the fact, and tons of aiders and abetors after the fact. Including author and printer of "Blast". Good ol' PT Barnum had it right. About one a minute. More frequent now. Like Jo states, I also can't believe anyone could be so nieve as to buy into what you guys try to peddle. Some of us actually know the difference.

Tena Bar? Who says the flight didn't go over Tena Bar or closer to it? Fits the information a certain key person told me... and he should know better than anyone.

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I didn't know that Kenny actually graduated from high school though. I guess that makes sense. You'd need that later on your app for NWA.



Blevins, I never cease to be amazed at how you can ignore information that contradicts your version of events. You are right up there with Jo Weber on this point.

There are basically three things supporting KC's graduation from high school, and if you had bothered to read Smokin's recent posts on this matter you would be aware of the first two:

1. The program he signed up for six days before his scheduled graduation date of May 31, 1944 required that he be a high school graduate. This was a mandatory requirement.

2. When KC actually enlisted in the Army in December 1944 at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, his official records stated that he had one year of college. This strongly suggests that he had successfully completed the program that he signed up for on May 25, 1944, which again implies that he graduated from high school.

3. As I remember the senior year of high school, the seniors had completed all their requirements a week or more before the actual graduation date. After that, the only reason you wouldn't graduate would require something along the line of playing a really bad prank on the principal or one of his friends or other such nonsense.

So unless you can prove otherwise, it is a very safe assumption that KC graduated from high school.

Robert99

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I didn't know that Kenny actually graduated from high school though. I guess that makes sense. You'd need that later on your app for NWA.



Blevins, I never cease to be amazed at how you can ignore information that contradicts your version of events. You are right up there with Jo Weber on this point.

There are basically three things supporting KC's graduation from high school, and if you had bothered to read Smokin's recent posts on this matter you would be aware of the first two:

1. The program he signed up for six days before his scheduled graduation date of May 31, 1944 required that he be a high school graduate. This was a mandatory requirement.

2. When KC actually enlisted in the Army in December 1944 at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, his official records stated that he had one year of college. This strongly suggests that he had successfully completed the program that he signed up for on May 25, 1944, which again implies that he graduated from high school.

3. As I remember the senior year of high school, the seniors had completed all their requirements a week or more before the actual graduation date. After that, the only reason you wouldn't graduate would require something along the line of playing a really bad prank on the principal or one of his friends or other such nonsense.

So unless you can prove otherwise, it is a very safe assumption that KC graduated from high school.

Robert99



Blevins always raises a problem - where none exists!
It's automatic with Blevins.

Thousands of men, literally, got caught in the same
situation - maybe hundreds of thousands.

My Dad was ordered to report one week before the
"graduation ceremony". The principal got upset
because my Dad had not bothered to "show the
papers". At length my father was sent his diploma.

Meanwhile, my father reports as ordered to the
AAC base at Omaha and all of the guys are told to
"go home and we will issue you new orders later"!
Turned out the base was not ready for a new flight
training class! So now, my Dad has the porincipal
of his school pissed off, his father gets pissed off,
and my Dad has had enough and goes to live with
an uncle in another community. Six months later
a letter arrives at my father's home ordering him to
report - again. Word was sent to my father and he
reported a second time ... and is immediately told
to report to an Army Air Corps base in Kansas
City ... his brother, an electrical engineer at KC
drives up to get him ...

Lots of guys got caught in these machinations,
especially in the early years (1939...)

Kenny was not special! In spite of Blevin's attempts
to make him look special.

It's writer's license, I guess.

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Bob, you have zero credibility and zero proof!!
STOP correcting peoples comments! without proof!

you can't even make a proper map with a town in the right place let alone try and push your crap on here!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Jo, No one got your "code" because such a claim is pure baloney. And that is a credit to the other members of this thread.

Robert99



DO U want to bank your RETIREMENT on that? Probably NOT!

The code is NOT baloney! It did exist and for what reason I do not know. WHY would someone even make-up such a code?

U are absolutely a moron if you believe EVERY THING in Wikipedia! If you do then tell me who the author of the Weber article was? It is not accurate and I do NOT go there - the last time was maybe 5 yrs ago.

Are they now making the authors authenticate their information? I doubt that!



You are the one who made up the "code" so answer your own question.



How the HELL do you think I made-up that code. NO I DID NOT!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo, No one got your "code" because such a claim is pure baloney. And that is a credit to the other members of this thread.

Robert99



DO U want to bank your RETIREMENT on that? Probably NOT!

The code is NOT baloney! It did exist and for what reason I do not know. WHY would someone even make-up such a code?

U are absolutely a moron if you believe EVERY THING in Wikipedia! If you do then tell me who the author of the Weber article was? It is not accurate and I do NOT go there - the last time was maybe 5 yrs ago.

Are they now making the authors authenticate their information? I doubt that!



You are the one who made up the "code" so answer your own question.



How the HELL do you think I made-up that code. NO I DID NOT!



That is what I am asking you. How did you do it?

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I don’t understand how it is nearly impossible to determine if Kenny graduated high school, but statistics on the washout/washback rate of his jump class is known to a man. I’m sensing some more BS. I know, weird considering the source.

Which class was he in? When and where was this ‘tougher than nails’ training?

The training techniques are certainly varied and some are downright bat shit crazy in military application. High attrition does not equate to difficult, tough or courageous in profile. It equates to ‘A’ profile type. Aviation tends to favor individuals who are process oriented with extremely strong (OCD-esque) attention to detail. Of course if you’re the type to jump without checking your data card then you may well become a statistic for rapid deceleration. It isn’t a huge leap of logic to imagine the same person forgetting to check the data card also neglecting to don his chute before jumping. Yes this has happened.

As much as I would like to believe that aviation training equates to bravery and ruggedness, there simply isn’t such a correlation. Except in my case because I’m strong, brave and cool, but one must remember that those conditions apply to me regardless of being in flight training or graduating last in doily crochet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhrDrE4-mI&feature=related

It is amazing how many ‘Captain Kills’ and ‘Sergeant Swifts’ I’ve met who have some amazing glory days stories about their courageous service and brushes with death. I’m on a quest to meet some ordinary people who make average wages and are self interested, since they are the rarest of people on Earth. I’m tired of all the rich, brave and pure folk who are seeking the truth.

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Jo, No one got your "code" because such a claim is pure baloney. And that is a credit to the other members of this thread.

Robert99



DO U want to bank your RETIREMENT on that? Probably NOT!

The code is NOT baloney! It did exist and for what reason I do not know. WHY would someone even make-up such a code?

U are absolutely a moron if you believe EVERY THING in Wikipedia! If you do then tell me who the author of the Weber article was? It is not accurate and I do NOT go there - the last time was maybe 5 yrs ago.

Are they now making the authors authenticate their information? I doubt that!



You are the one who made up the "code" so answer your own question.



How the HELL do you think I made-up that code. NO I DID NOT!



That is what I am asking you.

How did you do it?



This is what I am telling you I didn't make it up - I just unraveled it with something Duane told me. It was his service numbers and I remember stating something similar to this "You were only in the Navy". He said NOTHING and then changed the subject. He briefly mention coding - but I do not remember the context of the conversation. My memory is good, but NOT that good. I can NOT recall every conversation I ever had with my husband.

I do not know if I wrote it on something or if it came from some information I provided Himmelsbach. I do know I was told that some of the Newpapers had received letters and this was one of them... Himmelsbach was the only one I was talking to and a local woman who did a lot of research for me (retired journalist - now deceased).....

I would not know where to find it in all of this crap and it may have gotten thrown away. I guess I have to go back to the beinning and hope I did NOT toss the source of the numbers and letters...
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie



I believe he works for the county - Planning &
Zoning, something like that. Safe may have been
the one who concocted the fake money find - using
modern twenties no less. Was kind of funny. It was
covered here - do a search.

Logic? No. Just Safe's version of informal logic - he
picked the idea up somewhere. His intentions were
good but his results were meaningless and full of
contradictions. For one thing, Safe had but a few of
the real-world logical options covered in the
premises he made - but he loves to make videos.
Nice young man. It sounded good while it lasted -
he had Ckret going ! B|


Well, this should be fun.

MeyerLouie, there are unnamed people I mention in that video series. People I call "Cooper Enthusiasts" that have been on this forum for years spinning their wheels. Meet Georger, KING ENTHUSIAST.

He likes to throw dung on the wall to see if it sticks. He also likes to make assumptions and incorrect premises and hypotheses. I'll confess, I've done it too when I foolishly thought he was Skip, LOL... but that's how long I've been away from here and really don't follow (what's there to follow?)

1. I do not live in the NW any longer and have never concocted a fake money find. I did happen to view a youtube video where someone was claiming to have found money in a tree - I called BS in a comment that I left. Perhaps this is where this opinion comes from?

Yeah, I use a lot of informal logic. I also use knowledge from all sorts of areas. My personal opinion on this case is that there are too many things to hold in the memory for a single person to unscramble unless they know the evidence backwards and forwards. There are also plenty of biases and attribution errors that people make - which adds up to a lot of stupidity.

The thought like I like to make videos, not really - but how else do I explain some fairly complicated lines of reasoning?

I've been meaning to do another series but simply do not have the time. The next series, if or when I do it, will not take the step back and examine the evidence approach that I used in TTLOL.

It boils down to mathematics really.

You have a choice. Accept the evidence as it is and then deal with one of 7 potential solutions, or challenge the evidence and deal with the three paradoxes as I called them.

One way gets you there fairly quickly (under 10 years). The other gives you something to do day after day with nothing to show for it.

The law of parsimony ought to be followed as best as can be for a simple reason... for every less than 1 probability you introduce, you reduce the odds of your scenario.

The particular choice I said most closely resembled the evidence not only explains the evidence, but also includes the fewest entities (variables as I call them) - each of which would have less than 1 probability. Mathematically speaking, that's the choice you ought to favor.

But I can (but won't for now due to time) go much much further into that choice.

There's a reason why I made a blank bet on this forum more than a year ago. No one had the conviction to take me up on it. It's really simple, put up some money that your guy did it. I say he didn't do it. There's only one guy you're not allowed to bet me - and even if I bet against him, they still can't put him on the plane, so it's an easy sure thing. Perhaps that's why people would rather write books about their father, uncles, etc on pure speculation. Where is Marla Cooper? Geez, what a fraud that was (and that was the moment I made the bet)

Ckret (or agent L. Carr), FWIW, couldn't follow my train of thought down this path. I tried. I never ever "had him going". That's laughable actually.

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"That is what I am asking you. How did you do it?"
Is this what you are looking for???


Note was sent to the LA Times on Dec 14 1971...supposedly from D.B. Cooper.

I believe below is the decoded message. IT does NOT work with random numbers.

It is done in patterns - like smilies w/eyes he uses 7 as the turn around number because it was the month his life would forever be changed - he became an outcast from his family and unemployable - he had no choice but to become a career criminal...



7698QA2753 (the code provided to the paper from Cooper).

I am repeating this because I got the last 2 number turned around when I typed it into the thread a long time ago.

Army 35608905
Navy 283-56-96

Example use the Navy number
283-56-96 versus -
7698QA2753

July was the 7th month and the day the he was dismissed as an undesirable. Why 7 is the turn around number.

96 last 2 #'s in Navy #'s
Use 7 and reverse 96 to 69
gives you 7 69.

Use the same on the last two number of the code - 53 becomes 35 after the turn around number.
giving you 7 53

now you have 7 69 and 7 53

Q is Question - A is Answer.
The 8 and the 2 reversed are the 1st 2 number of his Navy number

This equates to 769 8 QA 2 753.

The same system works on his Army number.

35608905

7698QA2753
3560 - 8905
Reverse 35 to get 53
Reverse 89 to get 98
so now you have
xx98QAxx 53
July is 7th month
7x98QAx753 versu
left
x6xxQA2xx
2 is the first number of the Navy
6 is the last number of the Navy
reverse their order

7698QA2753
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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Blevins, I never cease to be amazed at how you can ignore information that contradicts your version of events. You are right up there with Jo Weber on this point.



Well, NO one is up here with Jo Weber. This has been a very very strange day - the things I learned today define logic.

1.
Since 1996 I have repeated over and over my story about Duane's nightmare of 1978 about leaving his prints on the plane - and his blood curdling scream.

"I left my prints aft stairs" and then "I'm Going to DIE!" as he reached up into the air awakening from a nighmare with a blood curdling scream.

His explanation was the aft stairs was from jail - I didn't know any better - but, was shocked by the jail - thing. He quickly said it was the stairs in a jail - and told me he had spent a short time in a jail - made like it was a minor time and just getting into trouble with a couple of guys. I was given the impression it was from when he was a young man.

Then I put it out of my mind. I had NO reason to mistrust him.

This was told to the FBI and Himmelsbach in 1996 by me.

:(Then yrs later suddenly Cook has Gossett is talking to a Judge about leaving prints on a plane. Note that Cook contacted me prior to 2004 and that is when I received my first and only written communication (letter) from him (in later yrs we exchange emails).This written communication was to extract Tina's location from me....and when he called me he claimed I promised him Tina's location in exchange for the pic of his subject. That pic was NOT a pic of any subject and this was yrs before he got a phone call from Gossett's son on a radio station.


2.
Today I experienced yet another hijacking.

Has anyone ever heard anything regarding a relationship between Max Gunther and KC?

Well, I have communications between Max and myself - dating from 1996 - but, I recently heard that it is claimed KC was in touch with Max. I asked it they had any proof of this - of course, Not!

Just more of Jo's story hijacked, except JO has the proof of her contacts and conversations with Max. Frankly I believe Galen Cook is behind this yet KC is Blevins' subject.

WHY would they stoop to using my stories for their subjects? This becomes weirder and weirder as time goes on. Why would an attorney and a writer stoop this low! If they are writing a book can they not be ORIGINAL?. Why hijack research and material from a woman who has been talking about this since 1996.

Cook had to be handed a clue about Tina on a silver platter. Me telling him what STATE to look for the divorce papers - after YOU guys claimed to have talked to Tina's ex. When the supposed interview with Tina's
ex was put on the thread I laughed till I couldn't breath...it was not too long after that when Sluggo took exit of the thread on a regular basis.

An ANGEL provided me with Tina's location and phone number before 2004. I did NOT want to intrude in on her life and felt she had been harmed enough. Several month later I would pick up the phone and call her. I left a message and then she would later call me back. One of 4 messages I have left with Tina since 2004.

Those of you who follow this thread know I warned her about Cook finding her (I felt responsible) and that I put the co-pilot in-touch with her by leaving her a message with his contact number and his secret message to her. All I did was leave messages - the only time she contacted me was in respones to the 1st call and I respected her privacy.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I can actually hear an echo in this thread tonight! If I participate in one more weird communication before I go to bed - I will have a heart attack.

If you do not get the CODE maybe it is because I am not explaining it correctly, but it is a code for his Navy and Army number -with the 7 as the turn around number. Remember I knew nothing about his ARMY record until Weber's past was revealed to me by the brother...that is when I got the army number. Hell the FBI had it wrong - remember they claimed it belonged to WAVY GREENE!

Am I stupid or crazy or off my rocker? I am NOT connecting dots that do not connect like some who post to this thread.

I may be an old lady, but I was not old when I started - 17yrs ago. I am NOT going down without an explanation from the FBI that makes sense and the FBI proves or explains why I am mistaken or how they have made their mistakes regarding the past of Weber. Weber could NOT be in 2 places at one time.
How has the FBI explained the mistakes the Agent of record made as late as 2000. They either can't or won't.

We ask ourselves WHY America has endangered relationships with other nations.
This thread is an excellent example of WHY. We do not work together and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Some things cannot be weighed and then judged on a computer - it takes objective human intervention. A computer has NO human objectivtiy.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie



I believe he works for the county - Planning &
Zoning, something like that. Safe may have been
the one who concocted the fake money find - using
modern twenties no less. Was kind of funny. It was
covered here - do a search.

Logic? No. Just Safe's version of informal logic - he
picked the idea up somewhere. His intentions were
good but his results were meaningless and full of
contradictions. For one thing, Safe had but a few of
the real-world logical options covered in the
premises he made - but he loves to make videos.
Nice young man. It sounded good while it lasted -
he had Ckret going ! B|


Well, this should be fun.

MeyerLouie, there are unnamed people I mention in that video series. People I call "Cooper Enthusiasts" that have been on this forum for years spinning their wheels. Meet Georger, KING ENTHUSIAST.

He likes to throw dung on the wall to see if it sticks. He also likes to make assumptions and incorrect premises and hypotheses. I'll confess, I've done it too when I foolishly thought he was Skip, LOL... but that's how long I've been away from here and really don't follow (what's there to follow?)

1. I do not live in the NW any longer and have never concocted a fake money find. I did happen to view a youtube video where someone was claiming to have found money in a tree - I called BS in a comment that I left. Perhaps this is where this opinion comes from?

Yeah, I use a lot of informal logic. I also use knowledge from all sorts of areas. My personal opinion on this case is that there are too many things to hold in the memory for a single person to unscramble unless they know the evidence backwards and forwards. There are also plenty of biases and attribution errors that people make - which adds up to a lot of stupidity.

The thought like I like to make videos, not really - but how else do I explain some fairly complicated lines of reasoning?

I've been meaning to do another series but simply do not have the time. The next series, if or when I do it, will not take the step back and examine the evidence approach that I used in TTLOL.

It boils down to mathematics really.

You have a choice. Accept the evidence as it is and then deal with one of 7 potential solutions, or challenge the evidence and deal with the three paradoxes as I called them.

One way gets you there fairly quickly (under 10 years). The other gives you something to do day after day with nothing to show for it.

The law of parsimony ought to be followed as best as can be for a simple reason... for every less than 1 probability you introduce, you reduce the odds of your scenario.

The particular choice I said most closely resembled the evidence not only explains the evidence, but also includes the fewest entities (variables as I call them) - each of which would have less than 1 probability. Mathematically speaking, that's the choice you ought to favor.

But I can (but won't for now due to time) go much much further into that choice.

There's a reason why I made a blank bet on this forum more than a year ago. No one had the conviction to take me up on it. It's really simple, put up some money that your guy did it. I say he didn't do it. There's only one guy you're not allowed to bet me - and even if I bet against him, they still can't put him on the plane, so it's an easy sure thing. Perhaps that's why people would rather write books about their father, uncles, etc on pure speculation. Where is Marla Cooper? Geez, what a fraud that was (and that was the moment I made the bet)

Ckret (or agent L. Carr), FWIW, couldn't follow my train of thought down this path. I tried. I never ever "had him going". That's laughable actually.


Well that was cruel, so well let me throw this out and
see if it sticks to the wall :D

Did anyone understand a single thing he might have
said, or may be saying, or may say in the future ?

Mathematics? Or Marvel Safe-logic Comics ?

These geniuses with their supposed special tricks
and NEW methods are really beginning to get under
my skin: Safecracking, this is RobertMBlevins.
RobertMBlevins, let me introduce SafecrackingPLF.
Get a trailer and discuss transfinite modulus as it
applies to the Cooper Maldum Fornax! :S

Rumpelstiltskin, this is Dropzone. An online Casino
for Cooperites. Place your bets -

The odds are - logical metaphors overlayed on the
issues or variables involved in the Cooper case,
cannot reveal or supply anything new or unique,
which 'common ordinary English' cannot.

Does that make sense? Is my sentence above
comprehensible?

In other words, putting a sheep skin on a goat -
the object still behaves like a goat, because IT IS
a goat! Is that a probabilistically true-proposition?
I suppose it depends on the sex of the goat!
:D

But, the application of supposed formalisms (logic?)
Safe devises to the Cooper case, as he sees it, does
not guarantee any special outcome, which could not
have been arrived at by the use of common ordinary
language (English) and fingers and toes ... in the
first place.

If that is not true, I would like to see an example of
it -

If that is what SafecrackingPLF means by "throwing
dung against the wall", then so be it.

Im dissappointed in the young Arstotle who has not
resolved the flight path or the money at Tena Bar
by his logical cabalism, et cetera ...

Maybe SafecrackingPLF can remind us, or illustrate
for us, something (anything!) he discovered in the
Cooper case using his "logical method", which had
not been known before ... or still isn't known or
realised ?

A=B iff C/NXy^2 [RSVP] + RB/NOP [x] ...
= [the Tena Bar money came from Pluto] ?

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie



I believe he works for the county - Planning &
Zoning, something like that. Safe may have been
the one who concocted the fake money find - using
modern twenties no less. Was kind of funny. It was
covered here - do a search.

Logic? No. Just Safe's version of informal logic - he
picked the idea up somewhere. His intentions were
good but his results were meaningless and full of
contradictions. For one thing, Safe had but a few of
the real-world logical options covered in the
premises he made - but he loves to make videos.
Nice young man. It sounded good while it lasted -
he had Ckret going ! B|


Thanks Georger for the information...I know, I need to do a search, I won't ask folks here to cover ground that's already been covered. Safe's series was certainly an interesting read, I was definitely entertained. He did know a lot about the case. True, there were contradictions. I take an interest in statistical applications -- I teach an Intro to Stats course at a community college. Safe certainly took some liberties, but he certainly understands the empirical rule and the basic notions of linear regression. You have to applaud the guy for taking it on -- all those videos must have been a major undertaking. MeyerLouie

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Jo,

To change the subject a bit:

Speaking of Duane, I just visited YouTube and watched, for a second time, the series by SafecrackingPLF: DB Cooper: Through the Lense of Logic (TTLOL), where he uses statistical principles (quite liberally I might add) and Occam's Razor to develop his 3 paradoxes, 7 possible solutions, and his choice for solution to the DBC case: Cooper survives, places the money somewhere, then 7+ years later puts the money in the river. SafecrackingPLF goes through the list of possible suspects (there are so many), and then he says that of all the suspects, Duane Weber is the one suspect who best fits his solution requirements.
I'm sure you have heard of or seen the SafecrackingPLF series, and SafecrackingPLF says he used to visit the DZ.
Toward the end of each episode of the series, he appears with Mr. H, so I'm guessing he's FBI. Do you know the true identity of SafecrackingPFL? He looks familiar, but I may be wrong. I know Occam's Razor has been discussed here, before my time, but I would like to get your take, and who this guy is.
MeyerLouie



I believe he works for the county - Planning &
Zoning, something like that. Safe may have been
the one who concocted the fake money find - using
modern twenties no less. Was kind of funny. It was
covered here - do a search.

Logic? No. Just Safe's version of informal logic - he
picked the idea up somewhere. His intentions were
good but his results were meaningless and full of
contradictions. For one thing, Safe had but a few of
the real-world logical options covered in the
premises he made - but he loves to make videos.
Nice young man. It sounded good while it lasted -
he had Ckret going ! B|


Well, this should be fun.

MeyerLouie, there are unnamed people I mention in that video series. People I call "Cooper Enthusiasts" that have been on this forum for years spinning their wheels. Meet Georger, KING ENTHUSIAST.

He likes to throw dung on the wall to see if it sticks. He also likes to make assumptions and incorrect premises and hypotheses. I'll confess, I've done it too when I foolishly thought he was Skip, LOL... but that's how long I've been away from here and really don't follow (what's there to follow?)

1. I do not live in the NW any longer and have never concocted a fake money find. I did happen to view a youtube video where someone was claiming to have found money in a tree - I called BS in a comment that I left. Perhaps this is where this opinion comes from?

Yeah, I use a lot of informal logic. I also use knowledge from all sorts of areas. My personal opinion on this case is that there are too many things to hold in the memory for a single person to unscramble unless they know the evidence backwards and forwards. There are also plenty of biases and attribution errors that people make - which adds up to a lot of stupidity.

The thought like I like to make videos, not really - but how else do I explain some fairly complicated lines of reasoning?

I've been meaning to do another series but simply do not have the time. The next series, if or when I do it, will not take the step back and examine the evidence approach that I used in TTLOL.

It boils down to mathematics really.

You have a choice. Accept the evidence as it is and then deal with one of 7 potential solutions, or challenge the evidence and deal with the three paradoxes as I called them.

One way gets you there fairly quickly (under 10 years). The other gives you something to do day after day with nothing to show for it.

The law of parsimony ought to be followed as best as can be for a simple reason... for every less than 1 probability you introduce, you reduce the odds of your scenario.

The particular choice I said most closely resembled the evidence not only explains the evidence, but also includes the fewest entities (variables as I call them) - each of which would have less than 1 probability. Mathematically speaking, that's the choice you ought to favor.

But I can (but won't for now due to time) go much much further into that choice.

There's a reason why I made a blank bet on this forum more than a year ago. No one had the conviction to take me up on it. It's really simple, put up some money that your guy did it. I say he didn't do it. There's only one guy you're not allowed to bet me - and even if I bet against him, they still can't put him on the plane, so it's an easy sure thing. Perhaps that's why people would rather write books about their father, uncles, etc on pure speculation. Where is Marla Cooper? Geez, what a fraud that was (and that was the moment I made the bet)

Ckret (or agent L. Carr), FWIW, couldn't follow my train of thought down this path. I tried. I never ever "had him going". That's laughable actually.


Nice to hear from you, SafecrackingPLF. I understand about the anonymity issue, I just thought since some folks on the DZ know each other by their real names, someone might know your real name. Not necessary to know.
Your TTLOL series must have been a major undertaking, I applaud your efforts. I enjoyed the series, twice. I am always intrigued by how folks apply statistical logic and mathematics -- it's what I do, I'm a college math teacher.
No one's perfect; granted, you took some liberties, but you took on something that very few folks would even dare.
I was definitely intrigued by your application of the the normal curve/empirical rule to the timeframe for the Tena Bar money find the year before discovery(your discovery and money axioms), and the third paradox about the Tena Bar money: the money must have traveled in the money bag v. the money couldn't have traveled in the money bag. That's the one that's got me thinking.
If you create something new in the future, I'll check it out for sure. Best wishes.
MeyerLouie

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Safe Crack states:

Quote


It boils down to mathematics really.

You have a choice. Accept the evidence as it is and then deal with one of 7 potential solutions, or challenge the evidence and deal with the three paradoxes as I called them.




:PI did NOT have a problem following Safecrack and I am just a dumb stupid old woman. When one is born and raised on a farm - you have to use common sense and approach situations logically - something that seems to be lacking in the newer generations.


SafeCrack states:
Quote

One way gets you there fairly quickly (under 10 years). The other gives you something to do day after day with nothing to show for it.

The law of parsimony ought to be followed as best as can be for a simple reason... for every less than 1 probability you introduce, you reduce the odds of your scenario.



:|
I did NOT know what parsimony meant, but I got the reasoning behind what he was saying.

SafeCrack states:
Quote

Mathematically speaking, that's the choice you ought to favor.




:)


MeyerLouie stated:

Quote

I am always intrigued by how folks apply statistical logic and mathematics -- it's what I do, I'm a college math teacher.
No one's perfect; granted, you took some liberties, but you took on something that very few folks would even dare.
I was definitely intrigued by your application of the the normal curve/empirical rule to the timeframe for the Tena Bar money find the year before discovery(your discovery and money axioms), and the third paradox about the Tena Bar money: the money must have traveled in the money bag v. the money couldn't have traveled in the money bag. That's the one that's got me thinking.
If you create something new in the future, I'll check it out for sure.



:)
Georger lets his emotions get in his way. I believe Georger knows a lot about the case - but, for some reason he lets too much bias and the opinion of others stand in his way. So do I.

SafeCrack approaches the case like it a mathematical problem and sets out to provide some probable answers. The rest of us (for the most part)are too emotional or trying to make a case for a specific subject or just simply do not have the mental abilities to do what Safecrack does.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Your TTLOL series must have been a major I am always intrigued by how folks apply statistical logic and mathematics -- it's what I do, I'm a college math teacher.
No one's perfect; granted, you took some liberties, but you took on something that very few folks would even dare.



My objection to Safe's socalled 'statistical logic'
is that it is neither statistical or logic/logical! In fact,
it is anything but logical and there is literally nothing
in his cocktail of truths to be statistical with, that any
level.

You can see this by simply watching any of his
videos and noticing how quickly he becomes bogged
down in his own polemics, because he makes a lot
of assumptions that are simply false, or incomplete,
unknown, or unknowable.

Here are but two examples in an endless list of such
suppositions Safe makes, which he calls 'premises'!

(1) "Nothing was found within 1 square foot of the Ingram find, and nowhere else".

True?

(2) "The Tena Bar money involves money that was either in a bag, or not in a bag".

True? Are these the only options?

I could list another twenty examples of similar
suppositions Safe makes; on which he then claims
to perform a logical matching and reduction.

He even goes so far as to attach probabilities to the
suppositions he choses. Well if the actual number of
known options available at some point in his logic
are say 4-6, and Safe has only chosen 2, how
accurate can his estimates of probabilities of 1 and
2 be, if 3,4,5, and 6 are excluded?

The other (better) alternativbe is to look for actual
forensic evidence. If you want to know if a money
bag was ever on Tena Bar, look for money bag
fibres vs. performing mix n match voodoo with
concepts?

Maybe the Ingram money arrived at Tena Bar in a
brief case! That is one option based on evidence.
Safecracking does not include that option in his list
of assumptions, at all.

In one video Safe states 'the Cooper flight was the
most-watched flight .. ever', or something akin to
that. Having blithly stated that Safe goes on to draw
a number of very firm 'logical' conclusions, then
weighs those options, assigns probabilities to each
... while his original premise may be false or just
incomplete and insufficient!

And Safe repeats this drumbeat of imprecision over
the whole course of his videos.

I just think he should spend more time on forensics
and actual evidence gathering and less time on
making videos, as a promotional affair for a resume
in his job search!

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Wild ass assumptions and colossal leaps of logic are nothing new regarding the Cooper tale. The ‘Lens of Logic’ video supplies a premise that the money bag will burst open after hitting the ground in freefall. Really? As if guided by some bizarre and freaky compulsion, I decided to glance briefly at a…… case study. Why are case studies constantly victims of neglect on this thread? Anyway, Martin McNally jumped with over half a million in cash and was separated from his money sack. Therefore it burst open just like Cooper’s; right? Or was his bag discovered, in one piece, by a farmer some days later? Hmmm, it’s a hassle to look that up so I’m just going to make a broad sweeping conclusion based upon my bias.

Hey! You know Cooper was probably in the military because he selected a ‘military’ chute! Damn right Sheriff. You know he was in the military because he asked for the money to be delivered in a knapsack, because that’s what military personnel use to carry things…. Knapsacks. Never A-3s or duffel bags, but knapsacks and camouflage lederhosen. It is all based upon logic because I put that word in the title.

OK people, let’s polka!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQRzTtkIP64

When I go a hijacking, along the airline’s track.

And as I jump, I love this thing;

My knapsack on my back.

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Blevins, I never cease to be amazed at how you can ignore information that contradicts your version of events. You are right up there with Jo Weber on this point.

Robert99



YOUR opinion BASED on WHAT you know or are willing to admit!
Should anyone accept opinions - C0MING from an individual who accepts or THINKS Wikipedia is actual research and is authenticated. GIMME A BREAK!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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