DB Cooper

[377 21]

Dan wrote

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5) His level of clothing/gloves/goggles is unknown

Not completely. We have a description of shoes that seem to be a very poor choice for the jump.

Jerry and I go round and round about whether Cooper had any relevant experience (jumper, aircrew, etc).

I can't reconcile the shoes (loafers? ankle boots?) with being experienced. I do think other evidence suggests that he was experienced. It is a puzzle.

It's easy to suggest that he had appropriate clothing, other footwear, a radio and various items concealed, but there is no evidence to support this.

So Dan, when are you planning to ID your suspect? If its McCoy then expect some strong pushback.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[DangerousDan 0]

377 -

Im just looking for ONE person to be included in the documentary that will go on camera and make a best guess that they feel like this jumper exited and never got the container open.

I would be willing to go on camera and say that I thought that Amelia ran out of gas and ditched in the ocean. I cant prove it but in my opinion, thats probably what happened. The ocean is a big place.

Im still looking for ONE person that wants to claim their opinion that this body (the hijacker) and his unopened container are lying out there within 200 miles or Portland, OR. Is it you that can say that?

[Robert99 37]

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Why did I lay all this stuff on you? Because it's important that completely unsupported claims in the Cooper case be laid to rest whenever possible. It's important. Like a separating the wheat from the chaff kind of thing and moving on.

So are you withdrawing your Cooper book(s) and admitting that your entire premise for that book(s) was dreamed up in an effort to make a couple of bucks?

[377 21]

I think he got a good chute Dan.

Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces. They don't rack up as many jumps as skydivers do but their jumps are usually more challenging. Maybe he will go on video for you.

I respect his opinion. It's possible that Cooper went in as a no pull. I just have a more optimistic outlook.

Also, whuffo skyjackers DID jump out of passenger jets and managed to deploy. It's been done. It's not theoretical.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Georger wrote

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Norman have to sue to get the chute back?
That is documentation.

If Norman's claim is true then his obtaining the chute back means he had to prove ownership. Evidence in the custody of the FBI isn't just given to whoever asks for it.

I can't find any record of a federal court lawsuit over this chute. It was probably not an actual lawsuit but rather an administrative claim.

Still, no big deal. We believe with reasonable certainty that Cooper jumped a surplus Navy bailout rig with a stock military round canopy.

That's a good rig for the jump. It can take a high speed opening.

We know he exited and we have a reasonable estimate of approximately where it occurred.

After that, it's all speculation.

377

This sounds correct, but I believe Bill said his speed was down to 175 before he was aware of it..... and jump point was 15 miles west of the recorded location.

Jerry knows better. He is just adopting the FBI position.

[DangerousDan 0]

I think he got a good chute Dan.

Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces.

___________________________________________

Jerry is not retired special forces. Jerry was in the military.

[BobKnoss 0]

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It's easy to suggest that he had appropriate clothing, other footwear, a radio and various items concealed, but there is no evidence to support this.

377

I know that he wore two pair of thermal underwear and combat boots, and so do two others who trained him. Their word with mine is evidence. They ain't talking. Gloves? Dunno. Radio? Don't think so, never discussed. Nobody on the ground. No radio needed. Only radios used were for triangulation from the pump station.

[Farflung 0]

That story on ‘Vanishing Vlad’, the Russian who went mysteriously missing and was on the doorstep of Sasquatch and Roswell Aliens turned out to be another case study for me anyway. He is at least a microcosm of what the Cooper story has devolved into before the fables, faux analysis and repetitive shenanigans delivered by those just looking for the truth. Awwww, how noble.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/canyon-lake/article_eea93729-2321-5c79-bb8b-b06638dd5525.html

I quote “MAY be missing”. May indeed.

His macro parameters were somewhat different from Cooper’s. The flight path was extremely contained. His description was missing from people who observed him, like the agent that sold the jump tickets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9WjcGdxuM) . It was day time and clear. There wasn’t a smoking hot Stewardess involved but there may have been an equally attractive jumper on the load but those buttholes writing the articles decided not to mention this or publish any pictures. They knew precisely when he jumped.

On a strictly linear scale where the variable is distance and the result is time I think you may need to brace yourselves for these shocking implications. Given is a missing person who was less than one nautical mile from the departure end of the runway-FACT. Secondly, this person remained missing for two months-FACT. The search area had all the obstacles of a shopping mall parking lot at 3 AM-FACT. They searched with helicopters, dogs specially trained to sniff things, metal detectors, spy satellites, secret CIA agents that no one knew about, Scout Troop 453, Agent 007 and some chicks from Orange Julius only to find nothing-FACT. Thus proving Vlad lived.

I have it on good information that ‘Vaporous Vlad’ was seen in the company of a meth addict from Corona before his jump and likely staged his disappearance in order to start a new and better life in Bombay Beach. There just needs to be someone smart enough, attractive enough and who cares about the truth, beer and puppies to get in the field and start knocking on doors until you flush out Vlad and his partner in crime hidden in that resort town on the shore of the Salton Sea.

I’ll bravely continue my dazzlingly brilliant, focused, humble and non-manipulative analysis to dig up other leads or clues where people are not thinking outside the box (or any other hackneyed phrase) as my hunkyness compels me to do.

[matthewcline 0]

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It's easy to suggest that he had appropriate clothing, other footwear, a radio and various items concealed, but there is no evidence to support this.

377

I know that he wore two pair of thermal underwear and combat boots, and so do two others who trained him. Their word with mine is evidence. They ain't talking. Gloves? Dunno. Radio? Don't think so, never discussed. Nobody on the ground. No radio needed. Only radios used were for triangulation from the pump station.

Actually by Legal Definition, I believe your word is "Hear Say" and not evidence. Now a picture to refute the eye witnesses statements, who state you're incorrect in the foot wear arena, would be evidence.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[BobKnoss 0]

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Why did I lay all this stuff on you? Because it's important that completely unsupported claims in the Cooper case be laid to rest whenever possible. It's important. Like a separating the wheat from the chaff kind of thing and moving on.

So are you withdrawing your Cooper book(s) and admitting that your entire premise for that book(s) was dreamed up in an effort to make a couple of bucks?

AND to draw interest away from the REAL story. YES! Fabricated by the suspect and the Cooper CREW. First hand information from the boss's mouth! Absolutely guaranteed to be the truth if you can get anyone to actually tell the truth.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Actually by Legal Definition, I believe your word is "Hear Say" and not evidence. Now a picture to refute the eye witnesses statements, who state you're incorrect in the foot wear arena, would be evidence.

Matt

No, it is "Saw Say." and instructions with verification. Circumstancial evidence. Tina used to know... Witnesses only saw what he boarded with. Not necessarily relivent to what he jumped with.

[Robert99 37]

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Quote

Quote

Why did I lay all this stuff on you? Because it's important that completely unsupported claims in the Cooper case be laid to rest whenever possible. It's important. Like a separating the wheat from the chaff kind of thing and moving on.

So are you withdrawing your Cooper book(s) and admitting that your entire premise for that book(s) was dreamed up in an effort to make a couple of bucks?

AND to draw interest away from the REAL story. YES! Fabricated by the suspect and the Cooper CREW. First hand information from the boss's mouth! Absolutely guaranteed to be the truth if you can get anyone to actually tell the truth.

Bob, You are beginning to make sense. But how does Marla fit into all this?

[matthewcline 0]

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Actually by Legal Definition, I believe your word is "Hear Say" and not evidence. Now a picture to refute the eye witnesses statements, who state you're incorrect in the foot wear arena, would be evidence.

Matt

No, it is "Saw Say." and instructions with verification. Circumstancial evidence. Tina used to know... Witnesses only saw what he boarded with. Not necessarily relivent to what he jumped with.

"Saw Say", funny, did you make that up so it fits your "version" of the event? There is no evidence, real or not, to back your story up. Just your "Hear Say" thus, like so many other tall tales here, not evidence and not admissible. Now if you had actual evidence, then it would be some thing all could take seriously and actually discuss.

Aren't you supposed to be some sort of LEO or former Military?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[377 21]

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I think he got a good chute Dan.

Jerry doesnt. He is retired Special Forces.

___________________________________________

Dan wrote:

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Jerry is not retired special forces. Jerry was in the military

.

Sorry if I was mistaken. Ralph Himmelspach told me that, not Jerry himself.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Bob Knoss wrote:

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Radio? Don't think so, never discussed. Nobody on the ground. No radio needed. Only radios used were for triangulation from the pump station.

Care to give some detail on that triangulation part Bob? Whose radios, the 727s?

Also, if you know where the chute is buried why dont you dig it up? It would be worth a small fortune. Some idiots pay thousands for a beat up twenty. Can you imagine what Cooper's chute is worth?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

Farflung wrote about Perris (DZ where Vlad disappeared):

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There wasn’t a smoking hot Stewardess involved but there may have been an equally attractive jumper on the load but those buttholes writing the articles decided not to mention this or publish any pictures.

Farflung, you can bet that there was more than one. Never seen a nun jumper at Perris but there are an abundance of attractive women. Ask Quade. Ask anyone.

When I jumped the Perris DC 9 they had real flight attendant jumpers on the plane handing out snacks. They were wearing shorts, thin t shirts and rigs. And yes, they were hot.

You'd be really happy as a Perris jump pilot. Pay is shockingly low, the area is pretty bleak, but I've heard that favors are offered for extra altitude. Get type rated in a Twin Otter and you are good to go.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

And Farflung if you think I am kidding about favors being offered for extra altitude, ask some WFFC Rantoul vets about why DC 3 N26MA went to 15,800 feet on one load. It had something to do with a tall gorgeous redhead who "incented" the cockpit crew. She took them to new heights and they gladly reciprocated.

I sure miss WFFC. Dirty motels, anarchy and drunkenness, but such a good time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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9) He exited somewhere in some fashion. He pulled.
10) "Something" came out.

From Orage1: "The second part of 9, and 10 are just unknown. You cannot state with any certainty that they either happened or did not happen."
.....

From Orange1:
9) He exited. He never pulled anything.
10) Nothing ever came out.

Don't put words in my mouth - when you quoted what I actually said earlier! My opinion has been stated before and it is a binary outcome. If Cooper had experience, particularly paratrooper experience, I think there's a very good chance he survived. If he was a whuffo, I think there's a good chance he went in.

Your trying to come up with firm conclusions is ludicrous. There just isn't enough information to be able to definitively state anything about what happened after he jumped.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

I need some scorching hot examples of womanity to get on video for me, just for fun and just give their opinion. Nothing unseemly or creepy where you look locked in fear or abject disgust, just your natural self after experiencing the rapture or a Maytag on a runaway spin cycle with an unbalanced load.

Here’s some example, spontaneous, honest and heartfelt statements I’m looking for:

A. Others will spend an empty life searching for what I experienced with him.

B. He’s was like a caged animal both fascinating and primal, yet I could not leave.

C. I’ve know what it’s like to experience the intergalactic once and want to share; but can’t.

D. I just want to make enough money to cover the expense of sheets torn in a fit of endless ecstasy.

E. I was stricken mute by my last experience (this would be hand signaled).

F. Of course I would kill for him, what a stupid question.

G. I have killed for him and would do it again…. (Lunges forward, camera fades to black).

H. No.

I. Yes.

J. It could be repaired surgically but then what?

K. It depends on what you mean by life altering experience.

L. She is my twin sister.

K. Who cares about time and space at that point?

L. I joined the convent the day after.

M. I left the convent the day before.

N. I don’t think magnificence can be cloned.

O. If he was cloned, I wouldn’t be alive to answer this question.

P. My insurance covered all the recovery expenses.

Q. Perfection simply isn’t strong enough of a word.

There must be some melting point of tungsten, hot women who would be willing to go on video and just give a sampling of the above mentioned ‘opinions’ which will be fairly and truthfully used for a production on a subject which I can’t reveal at this time. Nothing douchey here and it’s just for fun and won’t be used as a foil to further a poorly veiled agenda. Honestly.

[DangerousDan 0]

I didnt put words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. It is listed below. You are entitled to a best guess. Here is teh Question that I asked you:

If you were to write these last two would it look like this?

From Orange1:
9) He exited. He never pulled anything.
10) Nothing ever came out.

How about just a Yes or No?

Don't be mad. You have talent and experience. Tell me what you think. Its all good!

[DangerousDan 0]

Farflung - You need to be in something creative - you got talent! But hey its more simple than that. If there are seasoned skydivers on here that hold an opinion that the jumper (This is a DB Cooper thread I thought) left the 727 as a no pull/couldnt pull/total mal/etc. Then I would like to talk to them. Simple. I don't think this was the case, I am just looking for someone who can reasonably "speculate" that they (being entitled to a guess like anyone) do, and that this is their guess as to what happened. The varied opinions and guesses are all part of the story.

Isnt it ironic that I cant find an experienced jumper that leans towards this take - that this guy exited and (for whatever reason) never got anything out?
Maybe the survey was not woefully flawed after all.

You are a fine citizen, a respected jumper, and I appreciate your writing.

Sincerely, Dan

[Orange1 0]

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I didnt put words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. It is listed below. You are entitled to a best guess. Here is teh Question that I asked you:

If you were to write these last two would it look like this?

From Orange1:
9) He exited. He never pulled anything.
10) Nothing ever came out.

How about just a Yes or No?

Don't be mad. You have talent and experience. Tell me what you think. Its all good!

?? I already answered you above and told you what I think...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JerryThomas 0]

Dan: You no nothing about me or my military career.Ralph and a few others do. I don't live in a egotistical world as some do.A soilder/vet is to be respected and honored no matter what he did in the service. His job was just as important as the next. A lot of us choose not to brag about our careers especialy those of us that have served in combat. Are we proud of our service? Of course we are. Are we proud of our country. We've proved it. However we did it as a team.and a great cost to ourselves, not just one service but all services each soldier was important, not his job.Im in my 60's now and I deal with a lot of bad memorie's caused from combat.Hell my wife and I can't even sleep in the same room. I used to think those things would never come back to haunt me. But like most soldiers, I was mistaken. .As for your request for someone to go on camera. Why would they want to do this for you, are you a producer? No your not. Your posts indicates that no matter who would accept your offer, all you would do is use there comments in a negative way in order to prove that this candidate of yours is Cooper. Quade and Robert99 has already given you enough info for you to use.I've posted recently and suggested that you ask them to go on camera.You avoided doing this.377 has even told you that under certain conditions Cooper would be a no pull.377 would be perfect for your documentary along with Quade, Robert99 , Orange 1 Hangdiver ect. But there not going to say what you want and you know this. So, Dan, get on with it and post your suspect, along with why you feel he is Cooper. Give the reasons for your suggestions. prior to publishing your video. Then maybe someone here on DropZone can help back up your story. Jerry

[DangerousDan 0]

Jerry - I did not offer any disrespect. I simply said you were never in special forces, you were in the military. People that served in any branch have my respect no matter what their capacity. I thank you for your service. There is nothing egotystical here, and I appreciate your response. Like a doctor does, when you touch on an area and get a large response, or an indication of pain, you are probably at least close to where the problem is. THIS matter is important to the story.
Pull or No Pull. That is the question. A no pull says the FBI was right and there is a body out there somewhere. A pull of any kind means that he made it out of there in some fashion, with or without help, stashing the rig or not, same night or not, doesnt matter. I had to find a way of probing the sensativity of the subject, so that I could determine the relative importance of the subject. Therefore, I appreciate most your last reply, as it told me the most, and the most light on why things are the way they are. I have to be gone from this thread now for a while, but I thank each and every one of you for your candid responses and your professional interaction. Jerry, You are in fact a vet and a fine American and I proudly stand up next to you and defend her still today. Because there aint no doubt we (all) love this land. God bless the USA.

[EVickiW 0]

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Q. Perfection simply isn’t strong enough of a word.

There must be some melting point of tungsten, hot women who would be willing to go on video and just give a sampling of the above mentioned ‘opinions’ which will be fairly and truthfully used for a production on a subject which I can’t reveal at this time. Nothing douchey here and it’s just for fun and won’t be used as a foil to further a poorly veiled agenda. Honestly.

You forgot this one!

R. Two women to stand behind me (in sheer terror) as I dominate the video.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs