DB Cooper

[pek771 0]

377,
Thanks for the Honorable Mention! Your idea of pre-inflation was an excellent idea!

I had (still have some) friends, Vietnam veterans, who feel to this day they are playing with house money. I have never gotten this sense in speaking with either WW2 or Korea vets. Every one of these friends would have had no problem going off the aft stairs.

[arfuller 0]

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Marla's story certainly deserves scrutiny, but give her some credit.

She showed up at the Portland Symposium with no assistant, agent, PR person or "handler." She walked into the lions den. She answered every question asked save one about the source for print evidence saying that the FBI asked her not to disclose it. Her answers were direct, not one bit of dodge or ambiguity. No question was off limits.
I thought she was pretty courageous to walk into the midst of skeptical Cooper sleuths and take unscreened questions.

Sure there may be some inconsistencies. That isn't proof of a hoax or fraud. Sometimes memories expand in scope. Sometimes the expansion is accurate, sometimes it is actually fill ins from third party info.

Let's see how things pan out. The probing that Blevins and Bruce are doing is inevitable. It isn't pleasant for Marla and she might get pissed at the implication that she is a liar. Her defensive reaction doesn't prove she is lieing.

Marla is obviously smart. She spoke very articulately. I can't see a smart person jamming the FBI with claims she knows will be shot down eventually. That is a stupid pre book release strategy. Marla isn't stupid.

My impression is that she believes her story. That doesn't make LDC into DBC. Let's see where things go. It's really not fair to paint her as a scheming publicity hungry liar.

377

It's nice to see some open mindedness.

The Money Connection

[Amazon 7]

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At least half of the thread is joking and socializing. Another part is tedious technical stuff that may or may not be important.

What is the rest of the thread doing?

I think it's informative?

Where do the wild conspiracy theories fit in, in the above classifications?

They get filed in that internet file right next to Big Foot.

Well that area south and west of Mt St Helens is Bigfoot country... are you suggesting that Cooper hung out with Bigfoot and that is why he was never caught?

I mean SassieQ is very good at avoiding people who are looking for her while leaving minimal evidence... finding either Cooper or SassieQ would be a very newsworthy event.




Now where is my tounge firmly implanted in cheeck icon

[arfuller 0]

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At least half of the thread is joking and socializing. Another part is tedious technical stuff that may or may not be important.

What is the rest of the thread doing?

I think it's informative?

Where do the wild conspiracy theories fit in, in the above classifications?

They get filed in that internet file right next to Big Foot.

Well that area south and west of Mt St Helens is Bigfoot country... are you suggesting that Cooper hung out with Bigfoot and that is why he was never caught?

I mean SassieQ is very good at avoiding people who are looking for her while leaving minimal evidence... finding either Cooper or SassieQ would be a very newsworthy event.




Now where is my tounge firmly implanted in cheeck icon

Undoubtedly Big Foot played a part in the thing.

The Money Connection

[Amazon 7]

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Pek771 wrote

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But, I am still a WHUFFO. Do I get an honorable mention with the skydiving community for this?

Hell yes. Wonderful childhood story. You are a jumper in my book. As a seven year old I made my parachute out of a bed sheet. One rope shroud line to each corner. I BASE jumped off our garage roof into a big pile of leaves. I'd run across the roof to pre-inflate the chute.

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So, then, what is the big deal about going off the aft stairs of a 727 at night?

No big deal if you are Peterson, Braden, McCoy, Mayfield... or Amazon.

377

Damn straight!!!

I used to do that kind of shit for free... well ok.. I was paid to do it.. but I don't think 50 bucks a month was all that much to ask....and I constantly volunteered to take the jumps that a lot of the "boys" were more than willing to let someone else jump. For most of them as long as they got their money jump in once every few months that was all they wanted.

ITs just not that hard to jump outta planes..and just like flying.. its that landing that counts

[377 21]

Amazon wrote

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ITs just not that hard to jump outta planes..and just like flying.. its that landing that counts

So true. Perry Stevens was a rigger DZO and early jumper. McCoy specifically asked for chutes from Perry Stevens when he made his skyjack gear demands. Perry packed him some good chutes but reportedly put beacon transmitters in them.

Perry taught me how to skydive.

He said to our class: Leaving the plane doesnt take much skill, just courage. The skill comes in during the next part. If something goes wrong, you'll need all the skills we teach you to make sure that this isnt going to be the last minute of your life.'

That talk scared me. It made me pay attention.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Guru312 0]

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ITs just not that hard to jump outta planes..and just like flying.. its that landing that counts

FINALLY...here is the proof that DB did not survive the landing.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=131939;

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[377 21]

Anyone hear from Sluggo lately?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

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ITs just not that hard to jump outta planes..and just like flying.. its that landing that counts

FINALLY...here is the proof that DB did not survive the landing.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=131939;

Taken where, at Amboy?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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ITs just not that hard to jump outta planes..and just like flying.. its that landing that counts

FINALLY...here is the proof that DB did not survive the landing.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=131939;

Face it.. if DB did burn in.... then DB was a pussy... I certainly would have survived that jump

[377 21]

Amazon wrote:

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I certainly would have survived that jump

377 is never sure about surviving any jump. That keeps him scared and vigilant.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

My new report of Marla and her family is now up on the Mountain News:

http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/12/12/db-cooper-marla-cooper-and-her-uncle-ld-an-update/

I have interviewed Marla's mother, Grace Hailey, Dewey's widow, Janet Cooper; Dale Miller, the pastor who befriended LD at the end; and Arden Dorney, the cop who assisted Marla.

I also offer some commentary about the new face of Marla Cooper as her story becomes more complex.

[arfuller 0]

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My new report of Marla and her family is now up on the Mountain News:

http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/12/12/db-cooper-marla-cooper-and-her-uncle-ld-an-update/

I have interviewed Marla's mother, Grace Hailey, Dewey's widow, Janet Cooper; Dale Miller, the pastor who befriended LD at the end; and Arden Dorney, the cop who assisted Marla.

I also offer some commentary about the new face of Marla Cooper as her story becomes more complex.

LD was a paratrooper!?

That's pretty startling information. The thing I might take exception with is the part about Marla's mom telling her to stop crying and go get her dad. The stories I read in August said it was Dewie who told her to stop crying and go get her dad.

The Money Connection

[Guru312 0]

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Taken where, at Amboy?

I 'stole' the picture from this thread if it helps:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4237293;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[pek771 0]

Bruce, that all seemed quite objective to me.

[377 21]

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Bruce, that all seemed quite objective to me.

The family moral dilemma part seemed manufactured. Until Bruce mentioned it nobody saw any problem.

So a blood relative hijacks a plane for 200K and there are no injuries or deaths...

The Coopers probably arent thinking FBI, they are thinking: "LD and Dewey better get us some REALLY nice Christmas presents this year."

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[pek771 0]

"Dewey, can you pass me the gravy?"
"Sure thing, Ma."
"So, LD, were you going to just kill those people on the airplane if you didn't get the money?"
"No, Ma, Dewey and me were just joking around!"
"Well, as long as nobody got hurt..."

[arfuller 0]

At the risk of infuriating the class clown, here is a link to an interview where Marla says it was her uncle and not her mother that told her to stop crying and go get her dad. (Aug. 3)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/db-cooper-exclusive-niece-provide-key-evidence/story?id=14219052#.Tuam8GPTpGQ

The Money Connection

[GreenElf 0]

Agreed.

Other information I have reviewed in her communication with Geoffrey Gray, pre-Symposium suggests specifically that she was fully flexible and willing to surrender any control regarding how Mr. Gray wanted her portion of the presentation/interview to be proceed or be facilitated, specifically saying that no question was off limits, and that an extemporaneous approach (i.e., no rehearsed questions) was completely fine with her.

This is not the approach that any person would first choose to take if they were willfully attempting to deceive another person, especially if doing so greatly increased the risk of exposure. People that behave in such ways normally protect their vulnerabilities and try to control the flow of information. In terms of the way she presented herself, she seemed personally confident, sincere, somewhat humble, and a combination of both direct and transparent in her responses.

I did not mention this factor previously, but in dissecting her conversation, it does bear mentioning that she appeared to indicate during the symposium that a faith-related perspective has seemed to play somewhat prominently into her life experience and worldview, which is interesting for a couple of reasons.

I'm not sure about everyone else's experience here, but my life has, from time-to-time, criss-crossed with individuals who have possessed existential-based, faith-related perspectives on life that are similar to Marla's. Setting aside the issue of whether the specific faith-related perspective in question could or could not be considered valid, what I have discovered in my interaction with such individuals thus far is that the level of personal credibility of such individuals has been extremely varied, although from a clinical perspective, generally more positive than negative.

I have met and interacted with individuals who verbally emphasized the importance of a faith-based perspectives who were, in reality, untrustworthy. In my judgment/interpretation/experience with such individuals, the individual possessed a high degree of personal denial, a low degree of personal discipline, low degrees of social and relational skills, and a low degree of self-awareness. In other words, you might not agree with their verbal faith (remember, faith authentication is not the issue in the point being made) ... as it was very obvious that the individuals themselves were not particularly devoted to demonstrating the principles within their belief system, and had little or low regard for their personal honor, their word, or their character. Such individuals didn't care whether they personally exhibited trustworthy behavior.

I have met and interacted with other individuals who verbally emphasized the importance of a faith-based perspective who were extremely trustworthy, maintained a high degree of personal discipline, maintained excellent social and relational skills and a high degree of self-awareness. These individuals I have met have prided themselves on being people of character and honesty. In other words, you might or might not value their faith (again, faith authentication is not the issue in this conversation) ... but you could be well aware that the individuals themselves did, and that they valued taking a principled, and thorough approach to both their word, their honor, and the character related aspects of their life. Such individuals cared deeply whether they personally exhibited trustworthy behavior.

I have seen both types of approaches adopted to human behavior and experience. However, while Marla's testimony itself is still in the process of being verified (I repeatedly assert and freely acknowledge again that nothing Marla shared so far is certain), we can at least examine the process she took to sharing her testimony, and this seems more in line with how a person of character would behave; perhaps even the sort of person who's verbal faith perspective actually aligned in some ways with their demonstrated personal character. Keep in mind ... she did not have to attend the Symposium or answer - to share or otherwise. She could have simply opted to engage the legal minimum required of her, which would have been to alert only the FBI of her suspicions. This is only a hypothesized theory, but she may have felt that by choosing to share with the Cooper community, her story would receive a more robust level of acceptance.

The truth of this DB Cooper case, to this point, is that a lack of direct evidence has been presented to solve this case ... after 40 years. In my opinion, the FBI has maintained many incentives to want to solve this case (personal credibility, public image) and not any incentive to leave it unsolved. For those few who have alleged a government coverup - that the government previously knew Cooper's true identity, but wouldn't say - I would contend that criminal investigation forces at all levels over the course of American and/or world history have generally shown far more comfortability with fingering the wrong perpetrator of a crime, rather than no perpetrator at all). We can assume that if the FBI previously could have solved this case, they would have.

It is also possible to make the case that because inadequate levels of physical evidence have surfaced after 40 years (i.e., the supply line of new physical evidence has likely been exhausted), available circumstantial evidence may become more important over time. Marla's testimony is based upon a unique type of circumstantial evidence, and some of this evidence is fairly compelling.

We all may certainly acknowledge their are certainly significant gaps in the information she has provided, but so far, no solid contradictions have yet invalidated her circumstantial claims. These two terms, "gap" and "contradiction" are not synonymous in meaning, and this must be taken into account. The FBI - the one representative organization who holds by far the greatest amount of evidence and knowledge related to the DB Cooper case - continues to maintain that she is a credible witness, and this position has not changed on a public level.

In the meantime, what we can be certain of, is that we need to (1) remain patient, (2) work on aspects of the case that we can work on, and (3) be gracious to Marla until we know definitively whether her story is credible. We don't have control of a lot of the factors or inside information here, as the FBI does. I don't know Marla, but to be true to the noble process of investigative science, at the very least - she should be viewed as innocent until proven guilty, as any of us would want to be perceived, were we in her shoes at the moment. For any instances, including this one, when individual investigators are unable to remain patient for the emergence of evidence before passing judgment on prospective witnesses, we circumvent the investigative process, allow our own opinions to control personal investigation, and adversely influence potential progress.

My conviction is that no one in the investigative community should be allowed to publicly disparage her, especially without presenting clear evidence that discredits her. I don't think it is beneficial to burn bridges wither her unnecessarily, especially in the event (however unlikely it may appear to some) that she could be helpful in bringing closure to this case. We may fault her for capitalizing on her notoriety, but I have not seen evidence that has confirmed she is unethically exploiting the media, as some in this forum are suggesting. It's a tough economy out there, and easily be responding to her level of sudden notoriety with a level of resourcefulness; if I believed my uncle was a famous dead dude, previously unidentified, I would want to capitalize financially as well.

When we have may questions about her testimony, the ethical and honorable approach to scientific investigation would involve us speaking directly to her about these questions, and not triangulating any unfounded doubts through other individuals, especially on the forum. To consider ourselves objective individuals, we have a responsibility to withhold judgment of her, as well as withhold harmful portrayals of her, until which time her findings are verified one way or the other.

[smokin99 0]

Here's an interesting article on the Cooper Clan and a later picture of LD. (labeled as him, that is). It's from August, but I must have missed seeing it.....

http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/20110806/NEWS0107/308069999/

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110806/NEWS0107/308069999&template=flashgallery&no_audio=1&use_subhed=1&append_connected=0

I bet Irene was one tired Mama.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon wrote:

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I certainly would have survived that jump

377 is never sure about surviving any jump. That keeps him scared and vigilant.

377

Training.. the right equipment and elimination of as much of the GFS stuff as you can... and its all good. Bronze ovaries help

[ClassClown 0]

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At the risk of infuriating the class clown, here is a link to an interview where Marla says it was her uncle and not her mother that told her to stop crying and go get her dad. (Aug. 3)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/db-cooper-exclusive-niece-provide-key-evidence/story?id=14219052#.Tuam8GPTpGQ

...................nah everything is fine this go 'round.................................please proceed with caution...................

[arfuller 0]

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At the risk of infuriating the class clown, here is a link to an interview where Marla says it was her uncle and not her mother that told her to stop crying and go get her dad. (Aug. 3)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/db-cooper-exclusive-niece-provide-key-evidence/story?id=14219052#.Tuam8GPTpGQ

...................nah everything is fine this go 'round.................................please proceed with caution...................

Thank you for your patience.

The Money Connection

[smokin99 0]

I'm keeping an open mind with a healthy dose of skepticism. Like I mentioned in a prior post the guitar strap picture is intriguing, but.....

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4233177;#4233177

and here

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4233374;#4233374

Not to mention what someone else brought up (they didn't post it so I won't say who it was unless they want me to) -- the logistics of leaving Sisters and being in Portland with black suit and shades on by midday?? in order to buy that ticket, board that plane, and hand over that note at 3 pm-ish. What time does Marla say they left the house? What time was the ticket bought?

All that said...I do have to wonder what LD's immediate family thinks about all of this. His wife and kids, specifically. For all I know, they may love the attention, but from the scarcity of articles featuring them, one has to wonder what they think of Marla's walk down memory lane?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[LeeW274 0]

I stand corrected.

Never having had the opportunity, nor the desire to try to walk to the 'couve I've always taken a car. I live in Portland, born in Oregon City, and never noticed the pedestrian walk nor can I recall ever seeing anyone using it. I've been going over that bridge before it was two spans.

About the "12 mile walk" though. Where did that figure come from?