DB Cooper

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Finding out if there was actually a relationship between McCoy and Jerry Thomas doesn't seem out of order since Knoss is NOW shadowing McCoy's children."

PROVE IT!! This goes way over the line here!! I demand an apology and a retraction on this one! Repeated lies and no foundation. Show your proof or get off the forum. You are accusing me of a crime here, and I will get real serious about this. Lier, lier, pants on fire is one thing, but this is criminal, Jo. You best back up real quick here! You don't have the time to cover this one. Cough it up, immediately, or I call for assistance.

[Orange1 0]

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How is this different from you badgering Jamie with some wild claim that he was given away by someone Duane knew?

Jamie came to this thread looking for answers - and what I read into his post is how I answered. The McCoy grandchildren did NOT approach Knoss.

I have a lot of compassion for Jamie and simply presented to him other alternatives for his memories. Because of a family story I know - I felt I needed to make him aware of these other possiblities.

Oh really? And when he asked you to stop and you kept on and on badgering him - now you say it is all the acts of a kindly philanthropic little old lady? Face it Jo, there is no difference. Jamie came here looking for answers, not for someone to start spinning wild stories about his parents and keep trying to say he was given away by a teenager involved in something kinky that YOUR husband was involved in. Though of course that is part of your conspiracy mindset - you just could never accept, I bet, that the reason Jerry and McCoy knew each other could have been perfectly innocent - met through skydiving, met through military, whatever. In your mind there "has" to be a link - this is classic conspiracy theory. I'm not allowed to use the D-word

As for this bit - Quade, I hope you will be fair in your meting out of warnings etc ...

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Knoss I have had enough of you.
.... YOU my dear Man are a very very SICK person and you need to get some help -

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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"Sending this family pictures of a man you claim to be McCoy is going over the line."

Never happened. Who told you this garbage? I want to confront who is feeding these lies. Karen? Not true. Way beyond me, that's downright cruel! Never!

"When you contact children who where NOT even born in 1971 - telling them their grandfather did not die and that he was still alive..."

Never happened. More garbage, Jo. Mention McCoy and you go off rail. Always! Now in red?? What is going on? It is like a shocker cushion in your chair. If I push the button, you light up! I smell a rat.

Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac. Now watch yourself........

This is actually quite funny. This response is exactly the type of response Jo gives when people get angry about something - always "reading" something else into it (e.g. some of her posts to Georger). Seeing as this thread is currently going nowhere in terms of Cooper, just Jo and Knoss fighting over whose version of Duane-was-Cooper is correct, we may as well pass around the popcorn...?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Georger - Thank you for establishing that Jerry is ok. I didn't always agree with him, but I valued his input."

Yes, me too. He may know who's obit I read, pictures and all. He is a very good friend of Rataczak's also. Should be a real interesting forum when we get to it. I'll see if I still have the copies of what I sent him, sure I do. See if he wants to re-read those messages on here. I'd be happy to post them. (No threat intended, just trying to be informative)
Giving time to think over a good response...... Fair enough, no surprises.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"This is actually quite funny. This response is exactly the type of response Jo gives when people get angry about something - always "reading" something else into it (e.g. some of her posts to Georger). Seeing as this thread is currently going nowhere in terms of Cooper, just Jo and Knoss fighting over whose version of Duane-was-Cooper is correct, we may as well pass around the popcorn...?"

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I try not to put you guys to sleep, keep you entertained and educate everyone at the same time. You are watching the clean-up 'crew' in action, and Ma's got the broom out after me.

Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac. Mac............. Awk....Mac-Mac Aflac!

[skyjack71 0]

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Hope Jerry comes back. He actually KNEW McCoy. I'd like to see him and Al spar about McCoy. I'd bet on Jerry for a KO before the fourth round.

Above was Jamies Response to my post below:
[BLUE]JERRY KNEW MC COY - NOW THIS OPENS A WHOLE CAN OF WORMS![/BLUE]


NOW bellow is the rest of JAMIE's POST:

Quote

there are also a self professed daughter and grand daughter of McCoy's arguing with Knoss on Facebook.
they are disputing various photos of a Hollywood bodyguard and actor Knoss has posted claiming they are McCoy.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=103663739663344&set=o.10001004301
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101745989855119&set=o.10001004301&pid=42644&id=100000591563960
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=102155039814214&set=o.10001004301&pid=54049&id=100000591563960

Knoss YOU cannot erase that. I did NOT introduce your communications with the McCoy family - Jamie did. All I did was check it out and did NOT like what I found and no one else would.

Just DO your thing - lies to cover up lies and you have buried yourself so deep you don't even know what the truth is anymore.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JamieCooper 0]

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caretaeral says in part
Total lies again, There are a lot of people I never contacted. You are the harrasser here, like Jason says. You called Karen, I NEVER have. I suspect an alterior motive. What is it? Were you threatened too? Your reactions are over the top. WAY over the top. Methinks thee protesteth too much. What's up, Doc? What's the game play here? Call the FBI? Hell, I'll go with you! No problemo.

You are frantically trying to cover up all the facts about McCoy, then you call Karen????? Everything is the opposite of what it seems. The whole project works that way. THAT is the key to Project Norjak.
Right? "Once there was one, now there are three, find my wife and you will find me." Hi Mac!! Enter in, guy! You said to go ahead and do it, but you didn't think I would be able to, did you? Surprise!!
Tit for TAT!

what are you talking about? obviously at this point you're calling me Jason? right? or are you addressing and referencing the voices in your head? I didn't say any of this, in any post.
I shared links to some photos you posted on facebook where you were arguing in the comments sections with 2 women who claim to be decendents of McCoy.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"But, back in 71, an NDB receiver, including the bearing display, would have been as big as a car battery. Plus it would need an antenna outside the plane."

What did the Cooper plane have for radio capabilities? If you had known coordinates, could you fly to a spot in a blacked-out flight deck? This is what I understood they could do within a reasonable distance for jumping, in combination with lights from a very bright light station.

[quade 3]

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Sounds like you are describing ADF navigation. It's great for going directly to a low frequency non directional beacon (NDB) or an AM broadcast station antenna location but not very precise for determining your location by triangulation. I am not a pilot. Maybe Quade can explain it better. 727s had ADFs in 71 but they also had better gear for determining position like DME.

377

When he first wrote "radio vectoring" I assumed he was talking about a PAR (precision approach radar), wherein the radar operator gives course corrections to the pilot via radio. That is what is meant when ATC gives a pilot a "vector." It's a new heading for the pilot to fly, as in "Cessna 123PQ, fly heading 270."

However, his later descriptions sound more like plain ol' radio navigation. That could be a couple of VORs or a VOR and ADF or flipping between stations with a single VOR or ADF. It's all pretty basic stuff. Two VORs is fairly accurate, a VOR and ADF less so, flipping between stations using a VOR is less accurate, flipping between stations using an ADF is less accurate still.

A 100 foot circle of uncertainty in pin pointing your position is HIGHLY unlikely, however flying along a VOR it's reasonable to assume a degree of accuracy required to get you from Point A to Point B. Accuracy goes down the further away from the station you are just due to geometry. A 1° error at 60 miles is about a 1 mile error. Close in there is the problem of being "too" accurate and if a person chases the needle too close in they tend to wander around the VOR station rather than fly over it.

ADFs are about an order of magnitude less accurate just because of how they work in general.

The N in NDB means NON, as in NON directional beacon. It's not sending out any information whatsoever in terms of what direction the radio waves are leaving the antenna site. Think of it as a light bulb that's just always on. In and of itself, it tells you nothing other than it exists and maybe if you're perceptive you know what color it is.

A VOR, on the other hand, is more like a light house. Let's say you had a light house that had a white strobe on top of it that flashed at the top of every minute and its red rotating beacon made a 360° sweep every minute. By seeing the white flash at the top of the minute and then timing how many seconds went by before you saw the red rotating beacon, you'd be able to tell your direction from it. Of course, a VOR sends out these signals much faster than once a minute, but it's the phase difference between the first and second pulse that is being measured and the principle is the same.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

Orange said:

Quote

This is actually quite funny. This response is exactly the type of response Jo gives when people get angry about something - always "reading" something else into it (e.g. some of her posts to Georger). Seeing as this thread is currently going nowhere in terms of Cooper, just Jo and Knoss fighting over whose version of Duane-was-Cooper is correct, we may as well pass around the popcorn...?

Orange perhaps you should real the post yourself? Nothing I read into anything:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below the sites posted by Jamie regarding the McCoy children:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

there are also a self professed daughter and grand daughter of McCoy's arguing with Knoss on Facebook.
they are disputing various photos of a Hollywood bodyguard and actor Knoss has posted claiming they are McCoy.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=103663739663344&set=o.10001004301
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101745989855119&set=o.10001004301&pid=42644&id=100000591563960
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=102155039814214&set=o.10001004301&pid=54049&id=100000591563960

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


ORANGE READ the ABOVE POST and CHECK OUT the Face Book SITES! Would you allow someone to do this to your little girl? I am not the one who posted this - Jamie did and I checked it out.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[CaretakerAl 0]

Figures.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Just DO your thing - lies to cover up lies and you have buried yourself so deep you don't even know what the truth is anymore."

I didn't send any pictures to anybody. I answered a couple posts from undescribed posters on a forum with truthful answers. I stand by what I said. Mac would never abandon any grandchildren. Jason is a TROLL and he can get to you. I know exactly what he is and get a tickle down my leg and into my sock from him. He is totally predicable. Went to Facebook to make his fame, but nobody came. No feed for the troll. So now he's back. Because you feed him. The more you feed him, the bolder he gets. He's your responsibility, you fed him. Ha-ha-ha. Tit for TAT.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"A 100 foot circle of uncertainty in pin pointing your position is HIGHLY unlikely, however flying along a VOR it's reasonable to assume a degree of accuracy required to get you from Point A to Point B."

So, if you were flying a direct course on one heading for a signal from a known point, like a lighted pump station heading for that first signal, and were looking for a second known close signal from, say 90° west, you could hit within how far? 1000 feet? Less? 100 feet?
With two VOR's.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

"Just DO your thing - lies to cover up lies and you have buried yourself so deep you don't even know what the truth is anymore."

I didn't send any pictures to anybody. I answered a couple posts from undescribed posters on a forum with truthful answers. I stand by what I said. Mac would never abandon any grandchildren. Jason is a TROLL and he can get to you. I know exactly what he is and get a tickle down my leg and into my sock from him. He is totally predicable. Went to Facebook to make his fame, but nobody came. No feed for the troll. So now he's back. Because you feed him. The more you feed him, the bolder he gets. He's your responsibility, you fed him. Ha-ha-ha. Tit for TAT.

assuming I am who you have labeled as "Jason the Troll", who makes you "get a tickle down my leg and into my sock from him."
I feel I should point out a few things.
mostly, that my association with DB Cooper, is not any part of a plan to get famous. I'm already and have been for many years, relatively famous worldwide.
this is why you won't find me milking "DB Cooper" in any of my music, art, tv, radio, or, video projects.
I am providing the following links for verification purposes, not for advertising purposes, as most of them are not selling anything.
this is my standard list of my officially recognized websites, any others claiming to be associated with me are fake.
all are welcome to "friend" me, share, and/or check out anything I have online.
[email protected]
VISIT WITH ME LIVE AND/OR AROUND THE WEB-
http://www.jamiecooper.net
FACEBOOK-
http://www.facebook.com/jamiecooper187
TWITTER-
http://twitter.com/jamiecooper1
MYSPACE-
http://www.myspace.com/disrupter666
YOUTUBE-
http://www.youtube.com/user/jamiecoopertv
THE ART OF JAMIE COOPER-
http://www.facebook.com/pages/the-art-of-Jamie-Cooper/10150125216740471
DEVIANTART-
http://jamiecooper.deviantart.com/
BLOGSPOT-
http://jamiecooper187.blogspot.com/
LIVESTREAM-
http://www.livestream.com/jamiecooper187
GOOGLE-
http://www.google.com/profiles/jamiecooper1
INDIEMUSIC-
http://www1.indiemusicworks.com/jamiecooper/?band=1441%EF%BB%BF
OLD YOUTUBE-
http://www.youtube.com/user/senet666
RIFFSTAR-
http://www.riffstar.com/a/Jamie_Cooper/Elvis_Baby.html
GARAGEBAND-
http://www.garageband.com/artist/jamiecooper
ILIKE-
http://www.ilike.com/artist/Jamie+Cooper
RADIO/PODCAST-
http://independentstream.podomatic.com/entry/2009-01-26T06_46_16-08_00
TUMBLER-
http://jamiecooper187.tumblr.com/
MYYEARBOOK-
http://www.myyearbook.com/jamiecooper
SOUNDCLICK-
http://www.soundclick.com/jamiecooper
PUREVOLUME-
http://www.purevolume.com/JamieCooper
FRIENDSTER-
http://profiles.friendster.com/jamiecooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

"Just DO your thing - lies to cover up lies and you have buried yourself so deep you don't even know what the truth is anymore."

I didn't send any pictures to anybody. I answered a couple posts from undescribed posters on a forum with truthful answers. I stand by what I said. Mac would never abandon any grandchildren. Jason is a TROLL and he can get to you. I know exactly what he is and get a tickle down my leg and into my sock from him. He is totally predicable. Went to Facebook to make his fame, but nobody came. No feed for the troll. So now he's back. Because you feed him. The more you feed him, the bolder he gets. He's your responsibility, you fed him. Ha-ha-ha. Tit for TAT.

Knoss - you upset a child and that is wrong. This happened and you cannot deny it. You are the one who has used lies to cover lies until you have NO idea what the truth is. You professed that Jerry was dead until you realized that EVERYONE here knew Jerry was very much alive...and as usual it was your - Oh! That must have been some other Jerry. Don't you see yourself in the mirror?

You cannot deny what you did on face Book - and that was very distrubing to the 'child' who was your victim. I don't know the details, but it has to STOP. Any truths you seek will have to be done without damage to people who themselves are victims. I am an adult and I even though I thought I knew what I was getting into - I never dreamt it would go on for 15 yrs.

At least the story I have told has been consistent. Jerry has called my story a fantasy and accused me of being a liar, but I didn't change my story and the part I saw with my own eyes and the things I held in my hand and what Duane said...those have held on and I will never change them.

I have explored things and made it known this is what I thought might have happened because I wasn't there in 1971. I didn't know Duane until 1977.

Sometimes another person misrepresenst things and it is easy when you are desperate for answers to jump at the promise of a solution. What do you do with that - you explore it some more and you test it and your source...which is what I did with you. You failed...why did you fail in my book? Because you went off into a world that has NO boundaries and NO straight lines with too many dark corners and too many secrets...or what you thought were secrets.

Boundaries are extremely important to me - because those boundaries keep harm from those who are innocent. I keep secrets regarding DUANE WEBER, because they exceed the boundaries I am willing to cross.

Those boundraies have nothing to do with espionage or government secrets - they are personal secrets he had - secrets that ARE OF NO VALUE regarding Cooper or my goal. NOT one of these secrets will prove Duane was Cooper - One is a hell of a motive, but it would not prove he was Cooper....just destroy lives under constant construction...and hurt others in the process.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 3]

Quote

"A 100 foot circle of uncertainty in pin pointing your position is HIGHLY unlikely, however flying along a VOR it's reasonable to assume a degree of accuracy required to get you from Point A to Point B."

So, if you were flying a direct course on one heading for a signal from a known point, like a lighted pump station heading for that first signal, and were looking for a second known close signal from, say 90° west, you could hit within how far? 1000 feet? Less? 100 feet?
With two VOR's.

If a person was using VORs to spot a run, the accuracy would depend on the distance from the VORs in question, the accuracy of the pilot to fly the course and the errors that may be inherent in the radio navigation gear.

By way of comparison, ask ANY skydiver if he trusts a spot over a cloud deck using state of the art 2011 GPS and I'm fairly certain the answer you're going to end up with is something to the effect of "hell no."

That's not to say it can't be done (and in fact at some drop zones around the world that is how it HAS to be done during certain times of the year), but a number of skydivers have been killed because of poor spotting via radio navigation; even radar fixes provided by ATC have killed skydivers.

Further, in order to get those fixes, we have to assume (as you obviously do) that there was a vast conspiracy to commit the DB Cooper jump. That's simply not in evidence.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CaretakerAl 0]

"you upset a child and that is wrong. This happened and you cannot deny it."

You are totally incorrect. The person to whom I replied was a grown person, and made no references to family. The only child I bopped on the head was your little pain in the rear friend, Jason, who continually tries to make trouble with his intentionally incorrect and leading posts. There are no little kids on there screaming about their grampa! Just one pissed little kid on this forum trying to get even for my tickle ploy on him. He is simply a TROLL getting his jollies playing his dumb game. He is a professional performer performing here because he can't get a gig. Look at his unimpressive list of lost leaders. He's begging for attention and you just suck it up. He is almost totally your fault. His purpose is to disrupt and flame other posters. Draw attention and take over the forum, like I have done. Except I had some directives with real intention. Now I know YOUR directive. Mac explained it. He said to leave you alone and let you handle it like you were supposed to. You are not doing a good job because you are leaving tells. I've learned everything I care to here. Thank those of you who were helpful. I'm taking a leave of absence so you can play with snookums there. See ya later.

[377 21]

Quote

Quote

"A 100 foot circle of uncertainty in pin pointing your position is HIGHLY unlikely, however flying along a VOR it's reasonable to assume a degree of accuracy required to get you from Point A to Point B."

So, if you were flying a direct course on one heading for a signal from a known point, like a lighted pump station heading for that first signal, and were looking for a second known close signal from, say 90° west, you could hit within how far? 1000 feet? Less? 100 feet?
With two VOR's.

If a person was using VORs to spot a run, the accuracy would depend on the distance from the VORs in question, the accuracy of the pilot to fly the course and the errors that may be inherent in the radio navigation gear.

By way of comparison, ask ANY skydiver if he trusts a spot over a cloud deck using state of the art 2011 GPS and I'm fairly certain the answer you're going to end up with is something to the effect of "hell no."

That's not to say it can't be done (and in fact at some drop zones around the world that is how it HAS to be done during certain times of the year), but a number of skydivers have been killed because of poor spotting via radio navigation; even radar fixes provided by ATC have killed skydivers.

Further, in order to get those fixes, we have to assume (as you obviously do) that there was a vast conspiracy to commit the DB Cooper jump. That's simply not in evidence.

In 1968, when I was a static line student, my jumpmaster put me out through a solid cloud deck. Both he and the pilot were 100% certain I was right over the DZ. The pilot was using VOR navigation. I was dumb to go, but when you are a student you don't really get it that you are in command and YOU decide your own safety limits. Turned out I was MILES from the DZ and landed on a farm. I was lucky. GPS can do the job well, but jumping without being able to see the area below you is just dumb.

I was in a CASA 212 at WFFC climbing through 12,000 headed for 14,000 when the weather really started to turn nasty. The broken clouds were tuning dark and the holes were disappearing. It can change really fast in the Illinois summers. The pilot announced we were not jumping, dove for the deck, landed and drove the CASA right into a hanger with everyone still aboard just as really strong rain and winds hit. Thank goodness we did not try and punch the cloud deck in freefall on that load. All the jumper grumbling stopped when we disembarked and saw the chaos that we would have landed in.

Al, you still havent explained the completely implausible gear setup you claim that Cooper used, a chest mount reserve (the X marked rig) serving as a back mounted chute which could be deployed by reaching around behind. I'll let it go, but trust me it didn't happen as you describe.

Glad Jerry is still with us. You really had me worried there.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

377,

you know we are not aloud to jump thru a cloud deck. I think you really were talking about the industrial haze we encountered over Rantoul Illinois? Right! HA!

[377 21]

Quote

377,

you know we are not aloud to jump thru a cloud deck. I think you really were talking about the industrial haze we encountered over Rantoul Illinois? Right! HA!

Indeed. That boom town Rantoul, with the local steel mills running 3 shifts... Lots of haze.

If it wasn't for WFFC the weeds would have taken over the old air base and turned it into a jungle.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

"you upset a child and that is wrong. This happened and you cannot deny it."

You are totally incorrect. The person to whom I replied was a grown person, and made no references to family. The only child I bopped on the head was your little pain in the rear friend, Jason, who continually tries to make trouble with his intentionally incorrect and leading posts. There are no little kids on there screaming about their grampa! Just one pissed little kid on this forum trying to get even for my tickle ploy on him. He is simply a TROLL getting his jollies playing his dumb game. He is a professional performer performing here because he can't get a gig. Look at his unimpressive list of lost leaders. He's begging for attention and you just suck it up. He is almost totally your fault. His purpose is to disrupt and flame other posters. Draw attention and take over the forum, like I have done. Except I had some directives with real intention. Now I know YOUR directive. Mac explained it. He said to leave you alone and let you handle it like you were supposed to. You are not doing a good job because you are leaving tells. I've learned everything I care to here. Thank those of you who were helpful. I'm taking a leave of absence so you can play with snookums there. See ya later.

calm down,
my purposes here are simple.
to satisfy my own curiosity and sense of duty, to pool and share information, to debunk misleading "evidence" ie. the comic book cover, the Thailand video which was actually in Japan, and this doctored FBI sketch that has been poorly digitally altered to support Cooks claims about Gossett.
while I find some of your posts completely unacceptable, I'm not flaming anyone, not even you.
I believe you were in the service and are possibly suffering from dementia, possibly connected to age and/or your military experiences.
while I readily admit I was mislead about you having received a medal of honor, it was unintentional.
as previously posted, I surmised this from the photo you have in your profile pictures folder.
which I am sure had nothing to do with you both having nearly the same nose.
there is nothing here worth getting upset over.

[airtwardo 6]

...that my association with DB Cooper, is not any part of a plan to get famous. I'm already and have been for many years, relatively famous worldwide.

I'm sorry, who are are you again?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 21]

Quote

...that my association with DB Cooper, is not any part of a plan to get famous. I'm already and have been for many years, relatively famous worldwide.

I'm sorry, who are are you again?

Quote

relatively famous worldwide.

It's all relative Twardo.

Anyone who tells you they are famous or an expert or renowned... well, I think you know what I am gonna say.

I'm not even famous at my DZ let alone worldwide. I guess I need an agent.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

...that my association with DB Cooper, is not any part of a plan to get famous. I'm already and have been for many years, relatively famous worldwide.

I'm sorry, who are are you again?

Quote

relatively famous worldwide.

It's all relative Twardo.

Anyone who tells you they are famous or an expert or renowned... well, I think you know what I am gonna say.

I'm not even famous at my DZ let alone worldwide. I guess I need an agent.

377


I am infamous all over the world

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

Quote

...that my association with DB Cooper, is not any part of a plan to get famous. I'm already and have been for many years, relatively famous worldwide.

I'm sorry, who are are you again?

Quote

relatively famous worldwide.

It's all relative Twardo.

Anyone who tells you they are famous or an expert or renowned... well, I think you know what I am gonna say.

I'm not even famous at my DZ let alone worldwide. I guess I need an agent.

377

I am infamous all over the world


I think you mean notorious!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~