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~anyone know if Evergreen was operating out of Marana back then, and were they using 72's?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Quote~anyone know if Evergreen was operating out of Marana back then, and were they using 72's?
Too tired to pull this, but if my memory serves me correctly yes Evergreen was operating out of Marana - what they were using I wouldn't know. I believe it was Air America - that had two 727's there. Don't even remember if it was Air America - but that is what is coming off the top of my old fried brain.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 21
Sluggo,
Ask the Continental 727 pilot how he knew that plane was jumpable.
I have a thick Continental Airlines 727 flight manual for their version of the 727-100 series. Not one hint in the hundreds of pages that the stairs can be lowered in flight.
The NWA pilots and FE didn't know it. How did this guy know?
Even if I thought the stairs could be deployed I'd figure they'd be pushed up against the fuselage by airloads making egress difficult or impossible.
377
Ask the Continental 727 pilot how he knew that plane was jumpable.
I have a thick Continental Airlines 727 flight manual for their version of the 727-100 series. Not one hint in the hundreds of pages that the stairs can be lowered in flight.
The NWA pilots and FE didn't know it. How did this guy know?
Even if I thought the stairs could be deployed I'd figure they'd be pushed up against the fuselage by airloads making egress difficult or impossible.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 197
Even if I thought the stairs could be deployed I'd figure they'd be pushed up against the fuselage by airloads making egress difficult or impossible.
377
377
Not at 180 kts they werent.
QuoteQuote~anyone know if Evergreen was operating out of Marana back then, and were they using 72's?
Too tired to pull this, but if my memory serves me correctly yes Evergreen was operating out of Marana - what they were using I wouldn't know. I believe it was Air America - that had two 727's there. Don't even remember if it was Air America - but that is what is coming off the top of my old fried brain.
For all intent Air America & Evergreen are synonymous.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
377 21
QuoteNot at 180 kts they werent.
I agree but that isn't necessarily intuitive. Also one might expect that large a surface area delflected downwould cause a big pitch moment affecting controllability. If it was a no brainer then Boeing would not have done extensive tests to see if it was feasible. Don Kirlin went through a huge hassle with Boeing to get the test data so that he could get FAA approval for 727 jumps at WFFC.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
Quote~anyone know if Evergreen was operating out of Marana back then, and were they using 72's?
From a link posted quite a while ago, yes they were operating; I don't recall any confirmation that they were using 727s though. But the Air America 727 drop tests were before the hijacking.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
QuoteHERE is an interesting history on Pinal Air Park in Marana. Also posted up thread a bit.
I landed a 310 there 20 years ago in what I now know is the 'wrong' area of the air park...
It was actually pretty easy to convince all the people that came over to the AC that I was just a dumb Skydiver trying to head over to the DZ.
They did a quick once over of the plane and asked I not take my cameras out of their cases until I got to the dropzone...let me keep the Cessna where it was as long as it was gone before the next day.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
"Out in the open"
"The CIA's security doctrine for Intermountain was "hide in plain sight.'' Whatever couldn't be concealed was done right out in the open. In fact, it was essential to talk to the press in order to spread misleading information about activities that were impossible to hide"
LOOK OUT! This forum should get real intersting and hoppin when Jo reads this article hang posted!
"The CIA's security doctrine for Intermountain was "hide in plain sight.'' Whatever couldn't be concealed was done right out in the open. In fact, it was essential to talk to the press in order to spread misleading information about activities that were impossible to hide"
LOOK OUT! This forum should get real intersting and hoppin when Jo reads this article hang posted!
377 21
From hangdiver's Marana article:
That has to be an error. Perhaps Douglas A 26s? There were no surviving "squadrons" of B 26s. Few survived scrapping after WW 2. Very rare plane today. Still lots of A 26s around. A 26s fought in WW 2 , Korea and Viet Nam. Bay of Pigs too.
377
Quote*A squadron of salvaged Martin B-26 bombers destined for the Argentine navy.
That has to be an error. Perhaps Douglas A 26s? There were no surviving "squadrons" of B 26s. Few survived scrapping after WW 2. Very rare plane today. Still lots of A 26s around. A 26s fought in WW 2 , Korea and Viet Nam. Bay of Pigs too.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteBe interesting to hear from some one in the skyjumping world if this "jump" ever happened. That many jumpers going out of that large of a plane in 1971 would have made the local news.
Jo,
No US mass sport jumps were made from 727s until long after Norjack. The first I know of were in the 1990s at Quincy Illinois, at the WFFC event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNwr_Cb--I
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quote"Out in the open"
"The CIA's security doctrine for Intermountain was "hide in plain sight.'' Whatever couldn't be concealed was done right out in the open. In fact, it was essential to talk to the press in order to spread misleading information about activities that were impossible to hide"
LOOK OUT! This forum should get real intersting and hoppin when Jo reads this article hang posted!
I have been well aware of this for YEARS - NOTHING new. I discussed Marana - with the FBI prior to 2000. What I didn't know until this forum was that "In Plane Site" was connected to it - which is what Duane always said. Both he and his ex - mentioned it to me. She put them in a town not far from there for several months and told me how much she hated the area.
I really didn't know much about this Marana - until it was discussed in this forum. I knew of it - and do not know why they were in the area. From 1962 - 1966 - they were to and fro. In 1968 they had her kids, but were in the N.O. and AL area in 1968/1969. He was "traveling", so not home much.
377 - where the hell do you think they did the modification of the 727's rumored used in Nam and in that video we watched. Was it gutted and made into a cargo dropper in that facility in the 60's? There was a conversation between Duane and a man - about this - I have tired my best to remember when and who and where - it is just one of those phantom memories that bugs you once in awhile and makes you think you could really be Crazy. The fact that the plane was NOT old seemed to stick out in my mind - like it behooved them to gut an almost new plane. I never did ask what they were talking about and I do NOT know if it was a 727 that was gutted.
Since Duane had only a hand full of friends (people he and I would be around as a couple) - I know it had to be one of about 5 men. It seems lke this dicussion took place with a man by the name of Harry or Harrison (one of those whose name never stuck with me).
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteQuoteBe interesting to hear from some one in the skyjumping world if this "jump" ever happened. That many jumpers going out of that large of a plane in 1971 would have made the local news.
Jo,
No US mass sport jumps were made from 727s until long after Norjack. The first I know of were in the 1990s at Quincy Illinois, at the WFFC event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNwr_Cb--I
377
I believe Sluggo's informer said he showed this group how to open the aft stairs - but it may only have been a 727 or similar plane - that is what I was wondering earlier. I believe he may have been referrring to the plane the crew came into the area on and not the craft they jumped out of. I only briefly read Sluggo's paste of this man's emails. This was merely posing a question...food for thought.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
I remember back in '68, I was flying with Air Mike (Air Micronesia) and we used to land 727s on 4500 feet of crushed coral at Chuuk. (old Japanese WWII strips)
I posted a video I put together from home movies.
You can see the 727 we used to fly then, and the rear stairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c1ctj_Vqhg
in fact, the 727 landing that starts at 1:16 I think is on crushed coral. (watch the dustup at the wheels)
At 3:07, the pilot brags about all the stewardesses he ...knows.
(edit) Was thinking about how Sluggo's informer already told the FBI everything in 1971. Why does he think the story is still interesting? FBI coverup maybe. Maybe we can put together a full cast for the Coast to Coast presentation?
I posted a video I put together from home movies.
You can see the 727 we used to fly then, and the rear stairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c1ctj_Vqhg
in fact, the 727 landing that starts at 1:16 I think is on crushed coral. (watch the dustup at the wheels)
At 3:07, the pilot brags about all the stewardesses he ...knows.
(edit) Was thinking about how Sluggo's informer already told the FBI everything in 1971. Why does he think the story is still interesting? FBI coverup maybe. Maybe we can put together a full cast for the Coast to Coast presentation?
snowmman 3
Jo said "That is what I was wondering earlier. I believe he may have been referrring to the plane the crew came into the area on and not the craft they jumped out of. I only briefly read Sluggo's paste of this man's emails. This was merely posing a question...food for thought. "
No, you misread.
The informer said he brought some skydivers on board a 727 he had parked at the airport and took them for a ride. He showed them how you could open the door in flight, and possibly have 100 or more jumpers go out. They made plans for a bigway, but the Cooper hijack two weeks later scratched that.
Later, in 1986, the informer jumped with someone from that crowd. Luckily he was able to get a picture at that time, showing the remarkable resemblance (age-advanced) of that jumpmaster (loadmaster, jaggermeister, whatever) to the Cooper sketch (all of them).
The informer can't understand why the FBI didn't pursue the leads he provided on 11/25/71 and is hoping Sluggo can help him crack the FBI coverup.
No, you misread.
The informer said he brought some skydivers on board a 727 he had parked at the airport and took them for a ride. He showed them how you could open the door in flight, and possibly have 100 or more jumpers go out. They made plans for a bigway, but the Cooper hijack two weeks later scratched that.
Later, in 1986, the informer jumped with someone from that crowd. Luckily he was able to get a picture at that time, showing the remarkable resemblance (age-advanced) of that jumpmaster (loadmaster, jaggermeister, whatever) to the Cooper sketch (all of them).
The informer can't understand why the FBI didn't pursue the leads he provided on 11/25/71 and is hoping Sluggo can help him crack the FBI coverup.
georger 197
The informer can't understand why the FBI didn't pursue the leads he provided on 11/25/71 and is hoping Sluggo can help him crack the FBI coverup.
Is this the guy (attached) ?
snowmman 3
Quote
The informer can't understand why the FBI didn't pursue the leads he provided on 11/25/71 and is hoping Sluggo can help him crack the FBI coverup.
Is this the guy (attached) ?
Is that any of the DNA off the tie?
Would be interested to know how many DNA compares the FBI has done since they got the tie (or other?) DNA...might tell us about how active the investigation has been in the last 9 years or so?
Doesn't it sound like the tie DNA is mostly handling from FBI agents? I mean, Ckret handled stuff without gloves in one video..it wasn't stored well. Shouldn't we expect multiple male dna? I guess I don't follow why the tie dna is important, or how it's been used.
Is this from the tie dna? I would think there'd be more than just that image. That looks like old-school dna sequencing...
also the name "1234B" seems odd.
snowmman 3
There is only one runway now on Cooper Island.
It's a single 5000' treated coral runway.
Be nice to land a 727 there.
attached a 1991 NOAA chart that also shows the radio towers on Paradise Island.
Some nice color pics from 2005. The runway dominates as you would expect from the map.
from http://www.members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm
I mean, say you landed a 727 loaded with undocumented gold and uranium from South Africa there, what could go wrong?
It's a single 5000' treated coral runway.
Be nice to land a 727 there.
attached a 1991 NOAA chart that also shows the radio towers on Paradise Island.
Some nice color pics from 2005. The runway dominates as you would expect from the map.
from http://www.members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm
I mean, say you landed a 727 loaded with undocumented gold and uranium from South Africa there, what could go wrong?
snowmman 3
An Air Force C-130, conducting a run down the runway at French Frigate Shoals, during which it performing a mid-air retrieval of a satellite tracking data canister. Undated.
from http://www.members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm
Look at the 3 guys standing by the retrieval apparatus on the ground as the c-130 goes by...
The guy on the right, on the ground, looks like one of the Cooper sketches.
(edit) added overhead shot of that same runway from the 1960s.
interesting how they extended it into the water. no EPA in force then!
(edit) description:
The Tern Island runway was used by specially equipped C-130s from Hickam AFB.
The C-130 had a rig hanging out the rear cargo door that was usually used for snagging in mid-air the parachute of a descending Discoverer satellite capsule.
When the French Frigate Shoals tracking installation obtained data from a particularly important track, the data tapes would be put in a fiberglass canister, attached by a nylon rope to a grappling hook at the top of a pole erected on the runway.
This would be snagged by the C-130 in mid-air above the runway.
They would not land on FFS because the coral sand would be ingested in the engines when the props reversed.
After PMR left Tern Island, tracking was conducted on specially outfitted ships such as the USNS Longview.
A ranger station occupies the former Coast Guard buildings.
from http://www.members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm
Look at the 3 guys standing by the retrieval apparatus on the ground as the c-130 goes by...
The guy on the right, on the ground, looks like one of the Cooper sketches.
(edit) added overhead shot of that same runway from the 1960s.
interesting how they extended it into the water. no EPA in force then!
(edit) description:
The Tern Island runway was used by specially equipped C-130s from Hickam AFB.
The C-130 had a rig hanging out the rear cargo door that was usually used for snagging in mid-air the parachute of a descending Discoverer satellite capsule.
When the French Frigate Shoals tracking installation obtained data from a particularly important track, the data tapes would be put in a fiberglass canister, attached by a nylon rope to a grappling hook at the top of a pole erected on the runway.
This would be snagged by the C-130 in mid-air above the runway.
They would not land on FFS because the coral sand would be ingested in the engines when the props reversed.
After PMR left Tern Island, tracking was conducted on specially outfitted ships such as the USNS Longview.
A ranger station occupies the former Coast Guard buildings.
georger 197
Is this from the tie dna?
also the name "1234B" seems odd.
No, not from anything related to Cooper -
Nothing odd about 1234B, just a number, is odd
its sequential ... I didnt even notice that! Just pulled
it from a file. File 1234B_###########_####
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QuoteI showed a group of skydivers how to operate the door on a 727 (our airplane overnighting in PDX) and about 2 weeks I think it was later guess what happened.
I spent Thanksgiving day at the FBI. So, you can see why I'm interested. Is this Ralph??
I and many other skydivers spent Thanksgiving day at home, eating turkey, secretly disappointed that the FBI was ignoring us as Cooper suspects.
The futility of their investigation is so clearly shown by their reaction to Guru's ad.
Mayfield reminds me of Duane. Bad guy, often caught, arrested and convicted. FBI has cleared both as not Cooper. Duane had more 727 knowledge. Mayfield was a better jumper. It's really a coin toss.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI showed a group of skydivers how to operate the door on a 727 (our airplane overnighting in PDX) and about 2 weeks I think it was later guess what happened.
I spent Thanksgiving day at the FBI. So, you can see why I'm interested. Is this Ralph??
I and many other skydivers spent Thanksgiving day at home, eating turkey, secretly disappointed that the FBI was ignoring us as Cooper suspects.
The futility of their investigation is so clearly shown by their reaction to Guru's ad.
Mayfield reminds me of Duane. Bad guy, often caught, arrested and convicted. FBI has cleared both as not Cooper. Duane had more 727 knowledge. Mayfield was a better jumper. It's really a coin toss.
377
this is a repost from http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3240001;search_string=mayfield%20cossey;guest=65990463#3240001
Mayfield did it to kick Cossey's ass, because Cossey kicked his in this Northwest regional competition in 1969.
Took two years to plan it out.
Cossey came in first in accuracy and overall.
Lewis was second.
Mayfield was third.
If Mayfield had beat Cossey that day, there would have been no hijack.
Cossey knew it was Mayfield, and gave the FBI the hard pull rig on purpose.
They were called the "Issaquah Bandits" for a reason.
They hung with Duane Weber because he was a babe magnet and got everyone free drinks by singing. Duane stopped getting drinks for Mayfield, so Mayfield was pissed at Duane too.
article attached.
(edit) There is additional evidence that Mayfield flew on a 727 sometime between 1969 and 1971, but that evidence has been destroyed.
There are two of them - this guy contacting Sluggo is either Steve or it is Larry (last names I do not divulge). Remember HOW many contacts I have had over the yrs., but I do not make them all public. First I check out the names they give me.
You will find it could now be AZ but it could be TX/MX. Can you even imagine that many guys jumping in WA and OR in 1971 and the FBI not getting hold of that roster immediately...and checking out each one of them.
More than likely this is someone who likes to create situations - to distract from Gossett or Grey's story. Maybe your own Bevins.
This has been going on since I went public in 2000...I have talked to so many I have lost count. Since the FBI was never interested in any of this stuff I would relay to them - I just quit after the 3ed contact I made regarding the individuals who contacted me.
I am less intimidating than the FBI and if they are a hoaxster they won' t call the FBI...but, they sometimes want to be heard and are legitimate.
Ask your guy about Marana and see if he was ever there - IN Plane Site...or if any of his 101 hailed from those areas. If this was aregular skyjumping event in 1971 it should have been publicized. Maybe it was a "training" session for lots of Coopers - shhh!.
Be interesting to hear from some one in the skyjumping world if this "jump" ever happened. That many jumpers going out of that large of a plane in 1971 would have made the local news. That is the first place to check...most would have been much younger than Cooper in 1971 - but, maybe an old smoker or prior jumper brushing up on his ability - just for the hell of it..because it was something he always wanted to do - and just decided - Hell, this is easy - think I will hijack a 727.
If your source is legitimate maybe he can - tell you what the source or location of the divers was. Quickest way to not stir up the pot...and how many over 35 where on board. ..using 35 because Cooper could have been an OLD looking 35 yr old - drugs, drinking, living off the streets, etc.
Not trying to put a hole in you sails but trying to save you from all of the grief and time I spent searching for "strange leads".
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