DB Cooper

[longtimelurker 0]

The tie is vaguely interesting but ive always assumed it was just part of the disguise (smart businessman) I noticed in one of Mr B's links last night a picture showing somebody emulating Cooper wearing a hat. That is of interest as ive only ever seen once in any description other than that picture Cooper had a hat.I believe it was described as a Hombolt.

[377 21]

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Has anyone on this thread ever seen a 1970 era "sports" parachute or a ParaCommander backpack that didn't have D-rings for a belly reserve?

Yes, there were "piggyback" rigs in 71 that had the reserve mounted on the back above the main. I owned one, a locally manufacured Top Secret model made by the Altitude shop iin Vallejo. There were no front mounted reserve D rings on these rigs. Mine had a Paracommander MK 1 shortlined main and a Navy surplus 26 ft conical as a back mounted reserve.

I gave my Top Secret rig and PC to Beatnik, a rigger and RCAF Captain who has a passion for vintage gear. Unlike most collectors, he restores them and JUMPS them. Better to have old gear flying than gathering dust in an attic.

Today all normal sport rigs have the piggyback setup and no front mounted D rings. There are a few test jumpers who wear three chutes and they do have front mounted D rings for a belly reserve, but they are rare and custom made.

I am pretty sure Cooper's sport rig was a non piggyback rig with the main on the back and reserve D rings on the front. The NB 6 (or NB 8?) does not have any reserve rings. When you bail out of a military plane you only get one chance.

The C9 canopies used by the military (and which we believe Cooper jumped) are reliable and VERY VERY strong, much more so than sport canopies. If I were making a high speed exit and quick deployment I'd go for a C 9 over a PC. Sport chutes of the 1971 era were placarded "DO NOT EXCEED 150 MPH" or words to that effect. C9s can survive much higher opening speeds.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

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Robert99 responds:

“Attics - What are inaccessible spaces above the living area in some houses that are needed to help explain improbable theories?”

Well played again, you’ve added $1200 to your total.

Some truly skilled players with Vicki selecting WTF for $800 and your Coopardy answer is….

Dan Cooper Comics - What is a famous publication, previously unknown in the Western Hemisphere, that has generated more profits for paper manufacturers than its entire initial editions combined?

DZ.com (specifically the DB Cooper thread) - What is %*&^@#%=$?

[ExBlue 0]

I would think Braden is off the screen for reasons we may never know but I'd bet the FBI does. I don't think it's conspiriacy related (nor do I think you do).

I think someone being HALO qualified would make them a better candidate but not by much.

An experienced static line jumper--think old school paratrooper--would probably be silly enough to attempt the jump even if he'd never had any freefall/skydiving/HALO training.

One pretty common attribute of old school paratroopers is a bit of craziness.

As for the tie and bar, Carr said both were plain vanilla types and nothing special.

[377 21]

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I think someone being HALO qualified would make them a better candidate but not by much.

An experienced static line jumper--think old school paratrooper--would probably be silly enough to attempt the jump even if he'd never had any freefall/skydiving/HALO training.

yeah, the Air America 727 jumps were S/L. Anyone who had seen them or knew of them would figure you could just pull right off the stairs and it would be roughly the same, not much freefall. Halo/freefall experience would help but a paratrooper or smoke jumper wirth only S/L jumps could do OK.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

377 states:
If the book really was annotated by him I've always wondered if Duane was planning a con involving the Cooper cash. DBC wouldn't have needed to read a library book about his own caper.
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Jo Replies:
I don't believe he used books to create any allusion or plan anything. I think he read them to see what was being said - or had been said. The media in the south does NOT relay much about what goes on in the N.W.
A big fire might make the news or a volcano blowing.

If someone commited an unsolved crime - they want to know if they have anything to be worried about and what is being said in the media. Duane did NOT lie to me. I never caught Duane in a lie - he lied by omission which means he just didn't talk about it or in the 3rd person.

Cooper/Duane it has become synomous in my vocabulary, so I slipped up and called myself Cooper's widow. Walk in my shoes for the last 15 yrs - and see what you call yourself!
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377 states:
Duane's health, serial dishonesty/thievery and lack of parachuting experience make it extraordinarily unlikely that he would be chosen by others to do the skyjack. Who in their right mind would trust a con man thief with $200,000 in cash?
How likely is it that Duane could have thought up such an innovative caper, executed it and evaded arrest? It would sure have been out of character.
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Jo replies:

Who said anyone chose Duane to do the jump. I suppose because his answer to a slip of his tongue in 1979 may explain that "that's where Cooper walked out of the woods"
would be the reference point. I asked how he would know and he states "Maybe I was the one on the ground"

I took all of this as just kidding around. Yrs later after finding out who Dan Cooper was and his confession in 1995 - it was no longer a joke. In 1979 on the trip I knew about Cooper, but had NEVER EVER read anything other than an article in a Ga. newspaper the day after the crime. The war was on the front page and this article was on page 3.
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377 states:
"How likely is it that Duane could have thought up such an innovative caper, executed it and evaded arrest? It would sure have been out of character."

--------------------------
Jo will try to explain this one more time:

Duane was sneaky and there were many crimes he committed he was never caught and convicted on. The ex-wife told me about many of the capers. That is a chapter all by itself, but since she told me these things in confidence they will never be revealed out of consideration for her family. Just believe me - there were multiple crimes and robberies commited by Weber (1962 to 1971) he was never charged with.

Perhaps the FBI should have asked MORE questions. Duane stole 10's of thousands of dollars during that time span and did not get caught. Unknowingly I met a man I believe now to have been his fence one time...a reputable high end Jewerly store owner in Atlanta. Evidently they had a personal relationship - because of the conversation that took place.

For those unable to follow me:
Duane went on diaylsis in early 1990 and we separated for 6 wks so he could make adjustments - this occurred because Duane had got caught trying to obtain a drivers license under his alias John C. Collins. It was at this time I found out Duane had used another name and had been in Jefferson Prison.

We talked a little about it and only what he volunteered. I did not think it my place to pry about this - I was just glad he had decided to come back home - I missed him.

He had stayed in the trailer at the shop for a few wks after the arrest or 72 hour observation. The Dr. managed to get him put under 72 hour observation rather than being charge for a felony because of his health condition.
Of course that DR did not know Duane was a long time criminal.

Duane did managed to get an ID and took a plane trip I didn't know about - he needed that ID to enter a safe deposit box under the name of John Collins. This is when all of "the stuff" started to show up - bag, stub, money and ticket.

Now back to your question:

"How likely is it that Duane could have thought up such an innovative caper, executed it and evaded arrest? It would sure have been out of character."

After Duane moved back home he told me a little about life in prison. He told me they used to sit around talking about doing the BIG ONE. There were veterans in his group - I do not remember much of the conversation and it was short, but it is the first time I had ever known him to talk about highjacking planes. But it was just talk about the things they did to occupy their time - I derived nothing from the conversation that would indicate Duane had done this. I think Jefferson is where the seed was planted.

Because the evidence and this conversation came during the same time period - it is the only link I can make. Remember I was working 10 -12 + hours a day and then coming home to do my book work and cook all the meals (I never saw Duane fry an egg).

After I understood who Dan Cooper was (note not D.B.Cooper) it hit me like a ton of bolts. He had been telling me his story, but I didn't hear it - just like you guys don't hear me.
You have not had that 'Gottcha" moment yet.

The wife told me that Duane had one friend he used to go to Al to see (alone). This was approx 1970 - He was supposedly helping this guy clean out houses over the wk-ends. She never met the guy - but, she thought it was someone he had known from Jefferson. It was during this time he asked her to buy him a dicky jump suit. I do not know the significance of this but I am interjecting it because it happened. I assume that doing a lot of bending - it was hard to keep pants up. She evidently felt it important to mention that she never met the man but that he had a wht van--- paneled.

I know this comes off as rambling to those who read it because I don't know how to tell it. I am so tired of trying to make anyone understand - it is an endless circle and I am caught in the middle. Everything happens for a reason.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

ExBlue betrays a creative attribute that is always welcome…. ummm… make that needed on this thread. DB Gump… good one.

377, Anything involving your fridge door will involve Hot Nuns. Just learn to live with the burden, I have and am a better person for it.

Robert99 buzzed in with his answer:

"Dan Cooper Comics - What is a famous publication, previously unknown in the Western Hemisphere, that has generated more profits for paper manufacturers than its entire initial editions combined?"

That answer will keep you in the lead with an additional $800.

Also acceptable was….

“What is the single most quoted piece of improbable evidence used by fledgling authors which was conjured by a former DZ.com member that continues to grow legs and walk like the un-dead demographic known as Zombies to be killed yet again only to return and join the legions of investigators who slowly gather and skirmish in a greater and greater frenzy until the 40th anniversary arrives and concludes with a shuddering Coopergasm?”

Make your next selection….

[longtimelurker 0]

With all due respect , are you saying Duane never lied ? He just never spoke about it... ok.
I read an interview last night from 2000 with you , in that you say Duane never ever talked about his past.Here at DZ you have him singing like a bird since the late 70's

[EVickiW 0]

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The tie is vaguely interesting but ive always assumed it was just part of the disguise (smart businessman)

My first post on this forum was November 7. 2010. DB Cooper forum page 771.

So to re-hash the common clothing of the decade, I thought I would show the attire worn by my father in the Spring of 1971.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 21]

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377 , i know in past posts here there was much debate on the parachute , i read a recent article that had alledgedly quoted Cossey as the parachute being questioned was an NB8 packed in an NB6 container.This Cossey apparantly said would result in a 'hard pull" speculataing the user would require two hands to pull , if this is accurate and ive no reason to think it isnt,would that have made things any different given the circumstances of the jump ?, if Cooper had little jump experience

First, an NB8 is a container not a canopy. I think what he meant was a C9 28 ft canopy in an NB6 container designed for a 26 ft Navy Conical canopy. It could definitely make for a hard (but not impossible) pull. The solution would be to stand on the stairs, and dont leave until you have pulled. Unless a ripcord pin is severely bent, its doable, just takes some strength and determination.

Hard pulls in freefall have panicked experienced jumpers and led to fatalities, especially in the old days when automatic reserve opening devices were uncommon. The jumper gets obsessed with pulling. loses track of altitude and keeps trying until impact. Sometimes they would think they were pulling on the wrong thing and grab some webbing and pull on that until impact. I am talking about jumpers with hundreds and even thousands of jumps doing this.

At night, tumbling wildly, its not hard to imagine Cooper making the webbing mistake. It's happened with experienced jumpers on nice sunny days.

I had two VERY hard pulls in my student days and I can tell you they were terrifying, more than they really should have been. The solution is easy for a sport jumper, just stop fussing with the main and pull the reserve, but a person with one canopy doesnt have that option. I've had a couple of malfunctions that necessitated cutaways and they werent as panic inducing as the very hard pulls were.

My hard pulls were the result of packing some rental rigs using sleeved C9s in stock unextended military containers. It was too tight a fit, in my opinion. When I complained to the rigger doing this he said "maybe you just need to work out more kid" and put it right back on the rental rack.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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An experienced static line jumper--think old school paratrooper--would probably be silly enough to attempt the jump even if he'd never had any freefall/skydiving/HALO
.

A jump from 10k is high for a static line jumper, especially military, but someone like that could easily have gone to a jump school and got on to free fall within a few jumps. Normal static line to freefall can be done in 6-8 jumps depending where you do it, and maybe fewer in the old days.

The choice of 10k points to some experience in my book. Does the average Joe know that it's a common jump altitude that you don't need to pressurize the plane for?

377, for the life of me I cannot remember why we stopped discussing Braden. Other than this thread is a sorry example of "he who shouts loudest..."?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[longtimelurker 0]

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The tie is vaguely interesting but ive always assumed it was just part of the disguise (smart businessman)

My first post on this forum was November 7. 2010. DB Cooper forum page 771.

So to re-hash the common clothing of the decade, I thought I would show the attire worn by my father in the Spring of 1971.

Interesting picture EVickiW , sunglasses , tie , suit , widows peak , briefcase..get him on the DB Cooper list
377 , thank you for the detailed explanation on the parachutes and possible difficulties faced.If Cooper did make it he knew what he was doing for sure i take from that.

[Orange1 0]

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Interesting picture EVickiW , sunglasses , tie , suit , widows peak , briefcase..get him on the DB Cooper list

He IS on the DB Cooper list! Vicki just takes a somewhat different approach to certain other people.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[ExBlue 0]

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get him on the DB Cooper list

I think he's on it.

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The choice of 10k points to some experience in my book. Does the average Joe know that it's a common jump altitude that you don't need to pressurize the plane for?

After having studied this 40 year old case for approximately 45-50 minutes, I concur.

No experience means either a very gifted individual with a serious plan that will get him alive and in one piece on the ground, or a really stupid individual.

[EVickiW 0]

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The tie is vaguely interesting but ive always assumed it was just part of the disguise (smart businessman)

My first post on this forum was November 7. 2010. DB Cooper forum page 771.

So to re-hash the common clothing of the decade, I thought I would show the attire worn by my father in the Spring of 1971.

Interesting picture EVickiW , sunglasses , tie , suit , widows peak , briefcase..get him on the DB Cooper list
377 , thank you for the detailed explanation on the parachutes and possible difficulties faced.If Cooper did make it he knew what he was doing for sure i take from that.

Maybe I should put him on that list, but I have not seen him since he disappeared on his way to Federal court (for counterfeiting federal reserve notes) in September 1971.

I could have asked him if he was DB Cooper, however we have not heard........ from .....him since.........(gasp for air) .......WAIT........WHAT?.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

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Make your next selection….

Farf.....I....will.......take........Denial for $200,000 please.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[BruceSmith 3]

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An experienced static line jumper--think old school paratrooper--would probably be silly enough to attempt the jump even if he'd never had any freefall/skydiving/HALO
.

A jump from 10k is high for a static line jumper, especially military, but someone like that could easily have gone to a jump school and got on to free fall within a few jumps. Normal static line to freefall can be done in 6-8 jumps depending where you do it, and maybe fewer in the old days.

The choice of 10k points to some experience in my book. Does the average Joe know that it's a common jump altitude that you don't need to pressurize the plane for?

377, for the life of me I cannot remember why we stopped discussing Braden. Other than this thread is a sorry example of "he who shouts loudest..."?

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Snow, me and others seemd to run out of gas regarding Ted. Leads in PA dried up, and the trail went cold in Florida. It will take more resources than I have to persue this line of investigation.

I still love Ted, though.

• Quote

[BruceSmith 3]

If you would like to see current pictures of Tina Mucklow, the primary witness to the skyjacking, there is now a display of them at the Mountain News. Four photos taken in spring of 2010.

http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/08/04/pictures-of-tina-mucklow-the-primary-witness-to-the-db-cooper-skyjacking/

[EVickiW 0]

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pictures of Tina Mucklow, the primary witness to the skyjacking, there is now a display of them at the Mountain News. Four photos taken in spring of 2010

Tina = Victim

Mountain News and Bruce Smith = Stalker

(I loathe this aspect of the media)

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

You have really not done any research at all and you do not absorb an answer when it is given.

1962 Duane met a woman he never legally married but they would be together until 1972. This wife he did legally divorce due to commonlaw rules in the state of Florida.

She told me she left him in Nov of 1970 and that in Feb of 1971 she went back to him. This was the only wife he had during those yrs. From 1962 until 1958 they lived under the names of John C. Weber and mulitple aliases. She did NOT get custody of her children from a prior marriage until Duane was in Jefferson. She claimed she did not know his real name until he was released from Jefferson. Yet, they used many aliases from 1962 to 1968 so she must have known he was using an alias. I never called her down when I felt she was lieing to me - at least she was talking to me and did so until her death in I believe 2004. Even she used many aliases and therefore this indicates she was aware of this criminal activities.

She admitted to being with him when he was running from the FBI in 1966 and she related the details that took place when he was arrested at the apt complex and about the FBI agent giving her a ride back to MO. where she had family and children. Obviously she was not charged with aiding and abeiting as she would today.

I have a picture of her and her sister with Duane after he was released from Jefferson.

They left Mo and headed to CO where her other sister lived. They both were working in Co when the FBI from MO. came knocking on their door in 1969.
Now follow this and you will see it makes not sense. Duane had been released from Jefferson where he had been incarcerated as John Collins and received a "COMMUTATION" of sentence under that name and yet the authorities knew his name was Duane L. Weber - if indeed the FINGERPRINTS on file had been correct. Now does anyone see why I question the FINGERPRINT FILE.

Both Duane and his wife where heavy drinkers and liked to party heavy.

When the FBI came looking for him in CO they put the KIDS in the car and headed for N.Orleans. and abandon one call along the highway with a continenial kid. They had purchased another car and took refuse with 4 kids at someone Duane had known from his past.
I know the name but will not state it in this thread.

Some very very bad thinks happened to the children during this time frame...but they would move to Mobile, Al where Duane worked in Insurance sales.

How did he get an insurance license in AL and be an excon?

When the big hurricane was going into that area (I guess 1968/69 - I believe it was Camile) they headed to Atlanta with the kids. 2 vehicles. In Atlanta, Ga - Duane again goes to work selling insurance and the first company was the JMWAVE organization. I have all of their tax files from 1968 to 1972 when they got divorced. I have their work records for those periods...the FBI hasnever been interested in looking at them.

Some terrible things had happened in N.O. to the children and this cause a lot of bitterness on the part of Duane - someone ended up dead (unsolved) and under supicious cause. I can only speculate about what Duane did when they found out what had happened to the kids...I believe he was capable of murder if the circumstance presented itself.

At any rate - she never knew him to read a book either. She also knew about the things I did regarding Jefferson. We spent many hours talking on my dime.
She would call me in the middle of the night - it was 12 midnight there and be 2 AM my time and it had to go to work, but I would always call her back because she could not afford the long distance calls. She was usually very much under the influence when she called me. I have notes of most conversations.

There was a very brief and volitile marriage to one woman after his divorce to the above woman - Duane's friend can explain that better than I can.
The marriage was legal for about 5 yrs but they only lived together off and on - I won't go into the details of that marriage as it has NOTHING to do with what we are discussing...and the woman wants NOTHING to do with any of this - she does NOT want to be involved. She just told me Duane Weber was a horrible man - but the man I knew was a good man. This woman came after Duane yrs later for many thousands of dollars which depleted our savingings and renewals and his credit because he had to file for bankruptcy - large amounts of money put onto accounts in his name for purchase and renovations of the home they bought. Since these things from his past did NOT involve me - I was NOT part of the bankruptcy and my credit was left unscathed.

Why everything we did was under my name credit wise.

How did a man out of prison have money to pay alimony and take care of an expensive new wife. Perhaps these are the question the FBI should have been puzzled about. I have the tax records and they do NOT support the LIFE STYLE and money spent. Maybe she was the one who had money - I do not know.

Now do you understand - WHY it is relevant about any books read by Duane Weber - it is a mute point. Duane was NOT a READER of books. Therefore the rare ocassion he did read a book is very very vidid and the subject matter is suspect.

Now take you question and crawl up in a closet some place and read a book with a flash light.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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pictures of Tina Mucklow, the primary witness to the skyjacking, there is now a display of them at the Mountain News. Four photos taken in spring of 2010

Tina = Victim

Mountain News and Bruce Smith = Stalker

(I loathe this aspect of the media)

I hope she sues the hell out of him, but he doesn't have a pot to piss out of or a window to throw it out. He is a hungry journalist looking for fame and he does NOT care who he hurts in the process.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

“Farf.....I....will.......take........Denial for $200,000 please.”

Vicki hesitantly selects Denial for $200,000.

And the Coopardy answer is….

An Audio ‘DB’ Double!!

As you know, this answer is in the form of an audio clip. Take your time and don’t forget phrasing. Here is your ‘DB’ Double, good luck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwGVDmEsi8A

[Pat71 0]

Bruce - I don't understand how putting these pictures of Tina on the net help solve the DBC case. Please explain. Thanks Pat

[EVickiW 0]

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“Farf.....I....will.......take........Denial for $200,000 please.”

Vicki hesitantly selects Denial for $200,000.

And the Coopardy answer is….

An Audio ‘DB’ Double!!

As you know, this answer is in the form of an audio clip. Take your time and don’t forget phrasing. Here is your ‘DB’ Double, good luck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwGVDmEsi8A

Who......is..............Jo Weber; aka Mrs. Cooper????

(for Jo - aka = also known as)

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[longtimelurker 0]

You didnt answer the question , how many times in total was Duane married ? Not in any time frame , the total number please.
Again you say Duane was not a reader of books , but he did read the DB Cooper book or books.
By your insults i gather your cage has been rattled , i intended no such thing but let the chips fall where they may.