line twist

[yim666 0]

i recently downsized to a cobalt 150, wing loaded at 1.4. i've had some really freaky openings and i can't figure out why. yesterday, i had such severe line twist i almost had to chop it. is this a packing error, body position or what?

[rgoper 0]

my educated guess is that it is poor body positioning at deployment time, poor packing may account for one time, not all of them, lazy pc throws can also cause line twists. are you deploying cross wind, up wind, down wind? just curious, work on that body positioning at deployment........
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[bhale 0]

Cobalt openings are different, for sure. First thing, if you haven't already, is to read the deployment section on extremefly.com.
If you have already done that:
Make sure your hands stay off the risers during the deployment sequence. Keep them at your sides, about handle level.
Don't be afraid to open in a track.
Stay square in the harness through the deployment sequence.
Hope that helps.

[skycat 0]

Another thing is don't fight the canopy while it is opening. I watched a video on Sunday of an Instructor that normally jumped a stiletto jumping a velocity (I think, might have been an FX). Anyway you see the canopy searching for a heading with center cells still closed, well as he was trying to harness steer it, it decided to go back the other way, well in the video you watch him fight it, and decide to chop. As soon as he stops fighting it and goes for his handles it comes out of line twists. Then he chopped (he never noticed it came out of line twists). Anyway after you throw out and the canopy is searching for a heading, relax and try to go with the flow of it.
So during throw out keep your shoulders and hips even and relax, because tension can cause you to dip a shoulder or leg. Then while it is opening just relax and go with the flow of the opening, paying attention to your links that they are even.
Also check out this thead

[PhreeZone 15]

Have you started to learn how to fly the canopy through the opening? A Cobalt takes a little while to learn how to fly it properly though opening. It took me 15 jumps to learn the tricks without touching a riser.
Even with line twists the Cobalt should fly striaght if the links are at the same level. Have you corrected that issue before kicking out of the twists?
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[GrumpySmurf 0]

And remember to leave 18 to 24 inches of unstowed line beyond the last stow to the risers, if the excess is too short, the bag might smack the side of the tray while lifting off. If none of the suggestions here seem to help, try asking a buddy, who flies camera, to film a couple of your opennings from different angles - they might catch an uneven shoulder or hip problem that you might not even be aware of - might help?

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

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are you deploying cross wind, up wind, down wind

That won't matter, as you're horizontal airspeed should be zero, even if your groundspeed is, say, 20 mph. The direction you open in shouldn't matter unless you're doing hopNpops
boobies - the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems

[billvon 2,426]

>The direction you open in shouldn't matter unless you're doing hopNpops
Won't even matter then, at least in relation to winds. The direction you open in relation to the _airplane_, of course, does matter.
-bill von

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

That's what I was reffering to - on a hopnpop you still have horizontal relative wind. boobies - the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems

[Motab 0]

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Have you started to learn how to fly the canopy through the opening?

Time for another low-timer question... What do you mean by 'Flyting the canopy through the opening' exactly? Is this something to do with on-heading openings? As I'm still flying big ass Volvo-sized canopies, I haven't worried about on-heading openings that much, or really much at all doing with the openings... But I am curious as to what you mean, and what basically it entails.
Thanx!
-Andy
I'm not not licking toads....

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Any instructor can chime in on this one My take on 'fly the openning' means keep the hips and shoulders level while intentionally sitting up and looking straight back and up (at the canopy) during the deployment - the idea is to be a split second faster (but smooth) than the canopy input that transitions you from belly down to 'in the saddle'. This should keep you in control of the openning process, rather than openning process being in control of you - it starts becoming real important as you downsize and start playing with more tapered wings (like the Stilletto).
Actually, this is the best time for you to worry about on heading opennings, since habits you build now may carry on when you start downsizing - you can afford to experiment somewhat with the 'big ass Volvo-sized canopies' (I like that comment, gotta keep that one in mind - 'it's boxy, but it's safe' ) and not have to worry so much about spin up if your body position is not the greatest.
When in doubt, ask your instructor.
Be safe, have fun, learn

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[Shark 0]

I've never jumped one, but Bryan Harrell on Team Cobalt jumps a Comp 85 or so. I've seen him on a hop n pop dive out towards the tail, do a a front loop and pull when belly to earth. It's pretty cool. No line twists that I noticed. Send SkymonkeyOne an email. He jumps for them.

[billbooth 10]

Andy asked:
"What do you mean by 'Flying the canopy through the opening' exactly?"
It means keep your canopy symmetrically loaded all the way through the opening sequence. It means getting right back to perfectly stable as soon as you throw your pilot chute. It means don't look over your shoulder and watch your canopy open. Looking not only won't help, it will put one shoulder lower than the other, which will load one side of your canopy more than the other, and cause, at the very least, line twists, which if your canopy is highly loaded, will probably result in a cutaway. Asymmetrical openings can load your risers and harness up to 80% on one side, and 20% on the other, which can break stuff, including body parts. Simple enough?

[Iflyme 0]

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It means don't look over your shoulder and watch your canopy open.

If you ARE looking up to see your canopy open, you may not notice Joe "I thought I was tracking away from you!" coming straight at you under his canopy...
"There's nothing new under the sun"

[Motab 0]

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...which can break stuff, including body parts. Simple enough?

*That* particular phrase is always simple enough. I'm a big fan of not breaking body parts.
Great explanation though. Also, I liked the comment on not just letting the opening control you... I've really never done anything except for pulling the ripcord and waiting for "...is it gonna ope..?{oof!}... oh good." I've at least had stable openings on my last few jumps out of AFF, which is more than I can say for a good number of my AFF jumps... So I had my line twist experiences plenty. But then there were never more than just a couple, so it was no big deal. But this is definitely good info.
Thanks!
-Andy
I'm not not licking toads....

[xybe 0]

OK, I am in subnewbie status so DO check with your instructor but here goes my $.02
If you ARE using a ripcord to deploy your very lightly loaded main, looking over your shoulder after pulling the ripcord might help the (spring loaded) pilot chute clear the burble. This is obvoiusly not the case with hand deployed pilot chutes.
Still shedding whuffo-ness
Check out the Hardcore Whuffo pages

[yim666 0]

thanks for all the comments. i'm looking forward to my next opening instead of dreading it.

[KATO33 0]

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looking over your shoulder after pulling the ripcord might help the (spring loaded) pilot chute clear the burble. This is obvoiusly not the case with hand deployed pilot chutes.

I was taught to look over my shoulder as well. I was taught on a throw out system they taught this in cases of a lazy throw its gives your pilot chute a chance to clear the burble.
Although I throw out like my life depends on it because uh well IT DOES!!
Veterans chime in if I’m wrong.

[rgoper 0]

a "lazy throw" WILL get your arse! with a BOC throw out system, always throw at full arms length to get the pc into "clean air" if you don't feel the all too familiar "tug" about 2 nanoseconds later, it's time to take a quick second look, but, remember, you've got roughly 8 seconds to make the right decision, because if it's not cleared by then, it's roughly 18-20 seconds to impact without an AAD. i looked over my shoulder on level 4 AFP "once" because my dive master told me i was not throwing out to "full arm extension" well, when the risers almost tore my kneck off, after we got to "line stretch" i haven't pulled that shit since. i'll toss, and look up immediately, to check the square, steerable, and stable, grab the rear risers, and do some "russian radar" and i'm outta there! always remember..."The Real Fun Starts At Deployment Time" if you think about it, there really is no fear in freefall, until........................................
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[PhreeZone 15]

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remember, you've got roughly 8 seconds to make the right decision

Wrong. In the FJC that I just taught its you have 2-3 seconds to decide if its a PC in tow or worse. You need to be in your emergency procedures within 3-4 seconds. Remember you are in a high speed mal... waist no time in dealing with it. 6 seconds is a 1000 feet. If you waist 1200 feet determining if its a high speed mal or not.... I'm not going to feel real sorry for you if you bounce. Deal with a high speed mal fast, deal with a low speed mal fast... don't waist time on it.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[rgoper 0]

my mistake, i'm assuming a 3500-3000 deployment, i was trying to be conservative, EXCUSE me! i'm trying to bear in mind we dealing with a low time sky diver...sorry...in any event, you make enough sky dives, you won't be asking these kinds of questions, will ya? that's why we're in safety and training! :)
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[Michele 1]

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you make enough sky dives, you won't be asking these kinds of questions, will ya?

Makes no difference to me how long a person has jumped, or how many jumps they have - the moment a person becomes complacent and stops asking questions, no matter how "newbie" or whatever the questions are, that is the moment that they create danger for themselves, and for others.
Gear changes, DZ changes, and your style change. If you're not asking questions, you aren't keeping up with your safety and managing the risks in an appropriate manner. If you say, well, I don't need to ask questions, you probably DO need to ask questions. When you "know it all", that's when danger lurks.
Keep asking questions, and getting information, regardless of your time in the sport. BUT: that is just my opinion, and I am one of those "really conservative" jumpers.
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[rgoper 0]

**these kinds of questions**
this was kind of the "key phrase" in my post, it get's taken out of context a bit in your reply, i'll live through it! just for the record, i always ask a learned colleague before i do anything different while sky diving, and encourage everyone else to do the same. even our best will admit, they don't know it all, and we've got some damn good sky divers, and canopy pilots in these very forums, the best the world has to offer. i didn't mean to come accros the way you percieved, sorry.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[Michele 1]

Cool.
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[Remster 24]

And this is why I dont like this "I'm pulling high to bive myself more time to deal with a mal" theory....
This isnt directed at you Richard, but it goes to show what one standard (high pull alt for students/novices) can lead to potential problems further on in time.
The extra altitude students have is not to allow them to take more time to deal with a mal. It is only extra time to factor-in in case they do not recognize the problem imediatly.
Whatever you level, recognize and act as quickly as possible.
Remster
Muff 914