Chest strap question

[Push 0]

Hey all,
I'm still on student status, and one thing you notice as a student is that every instructor has his own preferences. Some ask you to spot for yourself completely, some want to give you a nod before you go. Some want you to cue your exit, some just want you to get off their planeNeedless to say, I want to get out of my harness after I land, not beforeQuestion is - is it actually possible to fall out of your harness at all if all the straps are in? How about when the chest strap is a little loose?
Thanks.

[PhreeZone 15]

A little loose is fine and needed to get a good arch, anything more then being able to lay a flat fist under it is too much was the rule I go with.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Casch 0]

As a student, (21 jumps) I have an instructor gear check me and if my chest strap is too tight, they loosen it until there is about 1-2 inches between the strap and my chest when it is pulled. As long as it isn't excessivly loose you should be fine. But it also depends on how well your harness fits you. If it is too big then the shoulder straps may venture a little too far outward and that would be bad...

[AggieDave 6]

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tells me to loosen it cause it will hamper my arch

Go talk to a Skydive U. coach and ask him/her about that. Its wrong. You don't arch from your chest, you arch from your hips/stomach.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 1,635]

On my 99th jump I did a 4-way with a former RW medallist, who now owns a business making rigs (Javelins). He insisted that the chest strap should be snug, saying that any slack would allow the rig to move around in freefall and would make precision flying more difficult, not to mention the problems associated with the harness moving around during a malfunction.

[Push 0]

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tells me to loosen it cause it will hamper my arch

Go talk to a Skydive U. coach and ask him/her about that. Its wrong. You don't arch from your chest, you arch from your hips/stomach.

Good point.
Also, it seems that no matter what I do, on some of the student rigs the straps ride up on opening. Last jump the strap went so high that if I bend my head to look at the ground I feel it against my larynx. The rigs are supposed to settle a bit on opening to absorb the shock, yes, but is this normal?

[AggieDave 6]

That seems a little extreme, to me. Make sure your leg straps are tight enough, ask one of your instructors about it too. You may need to have the torso straps (if your student rig has them) tightened.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Samurai136 0]

If you need to increase your fall rate, having your chest strap loose enough to allow you to roll your shoulders back will help. Some people can touch their shoulder blades together.
I learned that at Skydive U from my coach who is also a USPA BOD, master rigger, 20+ years in the sport.

Your chest strap should be tight enough that you can arch and roll you shoulders back to your full range of flexability. If your chest strap is not properly routed it can come out of the friction adapter during opening and you will fall out of the harness. As long as you can not shrug or wiggle the container off your shoulders the chest strap is tight enough. The yolk on student gear is less of a snug personal fit. The experienced jumpers/ instructors at your DZ are just looking out for ya.

[I'd be at the DZ right now but I'm waiting 'hoping' my new canopy arrives in today's mail so I can jump it.]

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Snowflake 0]

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Go talk to a Skydive U. coach and ask him/her about that. Its wrong. You don't arch from your chest, you arch from your hips/stomach.

True but depending on how your built it might need to be loose when your standing, but when you arch you bring your shoulder blades back which pushes your chest forward and expands it a little. The shoulders on my student gear used to slip of my shoulder in the plane, but once I was out and arching everything was tight.

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Also, it seems that no matter what I do, on some of the student rigs the straps ride up on opening. Last jump the strap went so high that if I bend my head to look at the ground I feel it against my larynx. The rigs are supposed to settle a bit on opening to absorb the shock, yes, but is this normal?

I know that the main lift web is adjustable on student Talons. I have no clue about other student containers, if their not adjustable use the rigs you've had good results with. It would be really painful to have a hard opening with a chest strap around your throat

[Push 0]

We use student Vectors. I believe that the main lift web is in fact adjustable, but even when the three rings are properly on my shoulders some of the student harnesses' chest straps choke. Also, only some of the rigs do this. I've picked a rig I like that doesn't have this problem as much, the chest strap rides up only about an inch even when you pull on your back at terminal (don't ask me how I know). Maybe the leg straps lost friction?

[skygirlpc 0]

I don't have any help to offer, I just wanted to make a comment.....Being a "smaller build female" the student gear at my dropzone was always a bit big. My instructor had me tighten the chest strap pretty tight in order to help the fit of the rig. It always worked ok for me!

[riggerrob 558]

Most of the people who died by falling out of their harnesses didn't even bother to attach their chest straps. Even a loose chest strap will prevent most rigs from sliding off your shoulders.

[billvon 2,417]

>Question is - is it actually possible to fall out of your harness at all if
> all the straps are in? How about when the chest strap is a little
> loose?

It is extremely difficult to fall out of the harness on opening even if both chest strap and legstraps are loose. To fall out you'd have to have the chest strap ride up above your head on opening. However, a loose rig can, in freefall, move around quite a bit. This can be a problem during back-to-earth flying (sitflying, barrel rolls or forward/backloops.) Tight leg and cheststraps can help this, but most serious freeflyers also add a legstrap link to keep the legstraps from riding up to your knees.

[Michele 1]

Morning, Bill...

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However, a loose rig can, in freefall, move around quite a bit.

Wouldn't that also be an issue during deployment (uneven distribution of weight) or if you had to cut away?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[tspillers 0]

First consideration is what is the container. I agree with Dave that you don't arch with your chest, you arch with your hips. Javelins can be tightened as hard as you can pull it and it will not hinder the arch....breathing maybe?

It could also be argued that if your chest strap was hooked up at all (correctly) then you would not fall out. That is why the chest strap is folded over and sewn, to prevent it from coming all the way out.

I keep mine a little loose until after opening and then I loosen it to the stop.

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[billvon 2,417]

>>However, a loose rig can, in freefall, move around quite a bit.

>Wouldn't that also be an issue during deployment (uneven
> distribution of weight) or if you had to cut away?

Deployment weight balance - not really, you are very quickly 'settled' in the harness when the canopy begins opening.

Deployment handle placement - definitely a consideration, since the handle moves quite a bit on rigs that don't fit well and 'float' around.

Cutaways - Not too much of an issue unless you sink so low in the harness (due to it being too large) that you have to reach above you for the handles, and/or can't look down due to the chest strap digging into your chin.

[Michele 1]

Thanks, Bill....appreciate the concise and clear response.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[RichM 0]

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First consideration is what is the container. I agree with Dave that you don't arch with your chest, you arch with your hips. Javelins can be tightened as hard as you can pull it and it will not hinder the arch....breathing maybe?

I'm not 100% on the skeleto-muscular system but while it is possible to articulate at the hips so that the legs are pointing behind the line of the spine the majority of arch will be achieved from flexing the spine with the flex focus at the spine / pelvis junction (sorry for being pedantic). This manifests itself as a forward thrust of the hips which is excellent exercise for numerous activities

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It could also be argued that if your chest strap was hooked up at all (correctly) then you would not fall out. That is why the chest strap is folded over and sewn, to prevent it from coming all the way out.

There are chest straps out there without the end turned over and sewn. These should be routed back in such a way as to prevent them accidentally working loose and coming out as any rigger can explain. Personally, I think it's daft and would have my rigger fold and sew the end to prevent this possibility. I would be interested to understand the manufacturers point of view on this?

Rich M

[PhreeZone 15]

>Javelins can be tightened as hard as you can pull it and it will not hinder the arch....breathing maybe?

I can pull mine tight enough the chest rings are only an inch apart, but i cant arch or even put both arms all the way up. On most articulated Javelins they use type 17 webing with no doubled over ends. Keeping it a little loose is ok. Sunpath says the proper tension onthe chest strap is when it forces the upper part of the MWL to be straight up and down and have the lower portion flexing.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[NewGuy 0]

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Question is - is it actually possible to fall out of your harness at all if all the straps are in? How about when the chest strap is a little loose?

Apparently, it is possible. I'm not sure if it is a matter of how loose the chest strap is - which is more along the lines of your question; rather, it is the type of harness you have and if it fits properly. See:

http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html

[billvon 2,417]

>Apparently, it is possible. I'm not sure if it is a matter of how loose
> the chest strap is - which is more along the lines of your question;
> rather, it is the type of harness you have and if it fits properly. See:

??? not sure what you mean. The first line on that site reads:

"There have been several fatalities of people falling out of a harness. These were either jumpers with unfastened chest straps or suicides. "

If you unfasten your leg and chest straps under canopy, you can indeed fall out, and if you don't put on your chest strap and don't do anything differently (i.e. you don't cross your arms to keep the harness on) you can also fall out. However, if legstraps and chest strap are connected, it is extremely difficult in a normal body position even if the rig is a poor fit. The biggest danger for a poor fit comes during sitflying, as the article mentions.

[NewGuy 0]

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??? not sure what you mean.

I don't believe the article directly makes mention to the risk of having a loose chest strap(assuming un-fastened is different than loose). Although I've heard many opinions on how loose the chest strap should/shouldn't be, I'm not in the position to be able to comment on it. (therefore "I'm not sure if it is a matter of how loose the chest strap is").

I did think it was worth referencing the web page though as the original poster wanted to know if it was possible to fall out of a harness even if the harness is fastened.

Cheers,
NewGuy

[Ron 7]

Well, you can fall out of a rig....I remember a story about a guy with "Gutter" gear in the 70's tracking out of his rig. Think about it...Very loose ill fitting gear, arms pulled back, relative wind on the rig hitting the rig trying to pull it to your feet....Could happen.

I have seen quite a few people goto the plane with a chest strap undone.....Me included.

I know several people that remove the chest strap after the canopy opens...I think a bad idea. What happens if you get into a collision and have to cutaway? I do loosen my chest strap alot after opening, but not undo it.

As for how tight? Well Derick Thomas does tell people to tighten the chest strap as hard as you can. But Derick is British and a little weird. (Just Kidding). He knows how his rig was designed to be worn.

Yes, making the chest strap to tight will hinder your arch.
I was told long ago to leave the chest strap a little loose so I can arch hard.

However I wear mine fairly tight....I do alot of 4way, and my team has a pretty well matched fall rate. We don't usually have to arch like hell at any point. As a student you need to Arch like hell. If you are a light fun jumper, and refuse to wear weights, you may need to arch that hard. The chest strap will keep you from doing so.

If you put the rig on, and it feels right, it is not to tight, and not so loose that you feel uncomfertable...Its right...If you need a way to measure, try the flat fist method someone wrote about....

For peace of mind, put the rig on, and loosen the chest strap. Try to squirm the rig off of your shoulders. If you can't, then it is tight enough.

What feels good, and can't be pulled of your shoulders is right....I can't tell you what feels good for you.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jraf 0]

I discussed the issue of strap tightening with JC Peren, who is one of our instructors as well as a designer of Javelins - JC insists thet the strap should be snug in order to assure the best performance of the rig in free flight and eventually the best opening
On issue of a loose chest strap or leg straps while in the plane, l had a discussion with Boxman - undoubtedly a skydiving authority. Boxman quite strongly suggested to make sure that enter the plane fully ready to skydive. In case of an emergency exit there will be not time to adjust the rig.
Who am I to teach you guys. I just relay the knowledge gained from the really experienced jumpers

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[Ron 7]

You're gonna take advice from Boxman?????

What is the world comming to?

Did he tell you the rig has to be Ugly green to work right?

As for the Design of the Javelin....

I think it was Henry "Pullyourlinein" and Mike Fury that Designed the rig.....Others have made changes.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334