Incidents regarding 2 out.

[base698 1]

Have there ever been any fatalities or more importantly entanglements from two grossly different sized main/reserves? I know hooknswoop posted saying he was unable to get them to entangle. I was just curious about this real incidents.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I know hooknswoop posted saying he was unable to get them to entangle.

It depended on the combination if they entangled or not.

Hook

[base698 1]

What was the combination?

I have a 120 stiletto and a 143 pd reserve and will probably downsize to a 103 velocity. Is that really really bad?

[Hooknswoop 19]

A PD-170 and a Stiletto 97 flew fine together.
A Safire 189 and a PD-170 flew fine together.
A Safire 189 and a Stiletto 97 down planed, then entangled, quickly.

I am going to do more 2 out tests soon, with video this time.

Hook

[councilman24 36]

Another thing to be aware of. Even if things don't happen fast they can happen low. We had a new skydiver open low and have a FXC fire. The Manta and Fury reserve flew in a landable side by side for quite a while. Then, about 500 feet they transitioned slowly to a down plane. The newbie finally decided to do something about 200 ft. He cut away the main. He swung down under the reserve and then at the end of the swing for some reason the reserve turned 180. He impacted during the turn. Severe closed head injury resulted. So, big docile canopies, not so different, went to hell but slowly. Unfortunately slowly ment low.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JPA 0]

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A PD-170 and a Stiletto 97 flew fine together.
A Safire 189 and a PD-170 flew fine together.
A Safire 189 and a Stiletto 97 down planed, then entangled, quickly.

I am going to do more 2 out tests soon, with video this time.

Hook

Respect. Guys like you testing the limits are what this sport is all about.

[callahan 0]

Hook ! Have you ever tried to hold the the risers together on a side by side ? What I mean is the left canopies right front to the right canopies left front and the same situation for the rear . Is this possible to do ? Would it keep them from getting out of hand ? I'm kind of interested if that might work in a biplane as well playing with the risers to keep things from going crazy . or are the forces too hard to control ?

[jerm 0]

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Hook ! Have you ever tried to hold the the risers together on a side by side ? What I mean is the left canopies right front to the right canopies left front and the same situation for the rear . Is this possible to do ? Would it keep them from getting out of hand ? I'm kind of interested if that might work in a biplane as well playing with the risers to keep things from going crazy . or are the forces too hard to control ?

Take this for what you will, as i'v never dome experiments like this, but it would seem that holding the risers together would in actuality be putting pressure on the risers -- riser input. The scary part is that riser input of this type would tend to want to make the canopies turn toward eachother, probably not what you wanted.

Hook, you have any input on this?

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Hook ! Have you ever tried to hold the the risers together on a side by side ? What I mean is the left canopies right front to the right canopies left front and the same situation for the rear . Is this possible to do ? Would it keep them from getting out of hand ? I'm kind of interested if that might work in a biplane as well playing with the risers to keep things from going crazy . or are the forces too hard to control ?

With the PD-170 and the Safire 189(really a 174) in a side-by-side, they flew together without any input. On another jump, I intentionally put them into a down-plane, but they woudn't stay that way, they would return to the side-by-side.

With the Safire 189 (174) and the Stilleto entangled, I didn't make any attempts to prevent them fro entangling or to control them in a ny way. I sat back and watched. As fast as it happened, deciding what to do then putting my hands up into 2 sets rapidily moving and loaded risers would not have been a good idea.

I think if they fly together, let'm, if not, release the main. Trying to keep two canopys that don't want to fly together, together is inviting disaster if you lose the control battle at low altitude.

Two canopys out is a completely avoidable situation.

Hook

[Cajones 0]

"Two canopys out is a completely avoidable situation."

Yea - take up BASE jumping.

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[freeflir29 0]

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I think if they fly together, let'm, if not, release the main

Uncle Clay's #1 rule of the air. If it's flyin....DON'T FUCK WITH IT!

[bodypilot90 0]

can you land a reserve any smaller with a couple broken arms, land it off airport? Think about it. Winsor ( a great candidate for BOD) has a low or sub 100 main and I believe a 218 reserve.

[billvon 2,400]

>I have a 120 stiletto and a 143 pd reserve and will probably
> downsize to a 103 velocity. Is that really really bad?

Always choose a reserve you can land under realistically bad conditions (i.e. in trees, with a dislocated shoulder etc.) Reserve rides are common; two out conditions are rare. Planning for the latter at the expense of the former isn't that good an idea, in my opinion.