AggieDave 6 #26 June 9, 2003 Alright, cool, that clears up what you were saying for me. As for now, I'm doing well with my baggy FF suit, so I'm going to stick with what works. (That and its hella more comfortable then my RW suit).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #27 June 9, 2003 Well, thats cool...I had a FF suit I was using for tandems. But I would dig the shit out of a knee, and I would get nothing. I then had to extend my legs more, and use my arms more. I got this advice, and tried it....And had no problem at all. Do what works for you. Don't get complacent....Do your handle checks on EVERY jump, even if it does not look cool. I personally don't like to flip out of the door. You are just speeding up. What happens if then you can't get the drouge, and have to pull the reserve at terminal? Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #28 June 9, 2003 According to my protrack, the top speed reached going out with a flip isn't that high, its been around 130-135mph. But then again, I've done maybe 4 exits like that, so I'm definately no expert.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #29 June 9, 2003 Congrats Tandem jumping...... Be proffesional. Be courteous. (You never know when you might get a $20 tip) Be careful what you say to the students. You never know their background or what they are into. Don't do acrobatic exits. If you have never seen the Strong Tandem Side Spin video you should(must) see it. If you like, I will send you a copy or order it through Strong enterprises. Be careful about being radical under canopy, Some students don't like it. It will make some students feel faint. You don't want an unconcious student. If a student starts to vomit, flying downwind works best. The cute small lightweight girls can often be your worst passengers. Blue Stuff, Johnny How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpervali 1 #30 June 9, 2003 have fun and learn the equipment operating procedures. Stick to your learned procedures. Continue to follow their procedures. Oh did I mention procedures? If you ingrain them you'll always provide the safest and most enjoyable skydive for your student. jumpervali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #31 June 9, 2003 Quote According to my protrack, the top speed reached going out with a flip isn't that high, its been around 130-135mph. But then again, I've done maybe 4 exits like that, so I'm definately no expert. The thing is not the speed of the exit...It is that it is delaying throwing the drouge...If it is a hard pull, or you can't set the drouge. You are then doing Tandem terminal..which last I checked is around 180. Then if you throw the drouge you are putting excessive wear on the system (Still better than bouncing). Worse if you have to pull the reserve. I was taught to throw the drouge within 10 seconds, or pull the reserve. If you do a fliping exit...you eat into the 10 second window. Its safer to play it safe, and its not just your life anymore. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #32 June 9, 2003 There is so much good doggone advice up in here! John made some really good points, and (if I may) I'd like to add to them. QuoteBe proffesional. I approach tandems as someone trusting me as a safe space for them to confront fear and have personal breakthroughs. Professionalism just comes automatically from that mindset. QuoteDon't do acrobatic exits. My personal choices: I don't do front flips with tandems at all. I don't do flips of any sort with tandems from side door aircraft. Out of a ramp aircraft (Casa 212, say) I will do a controlled 270 degree backloop if the student consents. I have done a bunch of them and they flow very easily for me. I practiced it with another TM on the front the first time I tried it though. I don't do that exit out of A/C like a SkyVan because I'm big and have to squat down so far I have a hard time getting out of the aircraft enough to be clear. QuoteBe careful about being radical under canopy, Some students don't like it. It will make some students feel faint. You don't want an unconcious student. I will do a moderate turn to get on the wind line and ask "Did you like that?" while looking around at their face to judge the reaction. If the answer is no, I just go easy making nice flat turns. It's their ride, after all. QuoteThe cute small lightweight girls can often be your worst passengers. I have had two exits that got a little ugly and tipped over on their side. (The Strong recovery methods work well by the way). Both of those were females about 5'6" and 120 lbs. Everything came out great and we were smiling for the camera on the ground. Man, I love this subject! Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #33 June 9, 2003 Yup, watched the side spin video. Very sobering to say the least. Ron: good point.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #34 June 9, 2003 Hey Dave congrats on your Tandem rating. Getting mine has been very rewarding. Just be prepared for the unexpected. You just never ever know when you may need to execute emergency procedures. Remember that a tandem skydive is not your skydive. It is your pasengers dive. Let them have the glory and the camera's attention. Pull high. Make sure you are prepared to exit the plane before you get in and take off... Think who it is appropriate to joke with and who not... Think of yourself as an ambassador to the sport. You will be many peoples first experience in the skydiving world... Have fun brother and be safe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #35 June 9, 2003 Dave, I will second what Ron said and follow it with a reason that was also discussed. I jump a competition bootie RW suit for all of my tandems. I do so because of the incredible power I have to steer with my legs and get my arms completely out of the video. A great deal of the time, unless my student has poor arm position, I do the entire drogue fall with my arms beshind my back. When you have a freeflying vidiot who likes to back-fly under the tandem pair, you can literally take yourself almost completely out of the video; it's cool. As to my personal "animation factor," it depends on what kind of time they appear to be having. If a person is sitting there not doing anything at all; not waving, not smiling, nothing; then I will flap my arms like a bird or something. I will point both hands at the passenger and nod my head; something, anything. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #36 June 10, 2003 Never get complacent. Touch your handles in freefall. Open a little higher if you can. 1000 ft will give you an extra 20% to impact, and an extra 50% prior to Cypress intervention over 4000ft. Don't jump when you're tired or angry or sad. Never forget the responsibility you have. Enjoy (As much as you can with a 250lb person sweating fear while on your lap..) tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #37 June 10, 2003 Since the thread is starting to sort of wind down, I wanted to take the time to thank everyone that repsonded to my questions, giving me advice and personal experiences. This thread has shown me some new things and reaffirmed the things I learned in the TM course. So, it has been very helpful.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #38 June 10, 2003 Sorry for the delay. Braked approach meaning, sinking in on brakes but then allowing the canopy to fly prior to landing. We of course went over the consequences of holding it too long. I agree an accuracy landing is not advised. Size - Dave shouldn't be crossing 200# by much before being over factory limits at his current weight. He is 6'1" an a big country boy. Just clarifying. He did find your post informative. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #39 June 11, 2003 QuoteDave, I will second what Ron said and follow it with a reason that was also discussed. I jump a competition bootie RW suit for all of my tandems. I do so because of the incredible power I have to steer with my legs and get my arms completely out of the video. A great deal of the time, unless my student has poor arm position, I do the entire drogue fall with my arms beshind my back. When you have a freeflying vidiot who likes to back-fly under the tandem pair, you can literally take yourself almost completely out of the video; it's cool. As to my personal "animation factor," it depends on what kind of time they appear to be having. If a person is sitting there not doing anything at all; not waving, not smiling, nothing; then I will flap my arms like a bird or something. I will point both hands at the passenger and nod my head; something, anything. Chuck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skymonkey One, We disagree on our choice of jumpsuits. While I can understand your preference for booties, I don't like Spandex sleeves while doing tandems. Why give up half your control surfaces? Mind you, I have only done a handful of tandems while wearing my skin-tight, super-sexy RW comp suit. Maybe that is because I have survived 2,200 tandems while wearing baggy suits. Many of them were made before free flying became fashionable. Granted I have done a hundred or so tandems wearing only shorts and a t-shirt, but that was when it was so stinking hot in the California desert that I had to chose between maybe getting unstable and definitely suffering from heat stroke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #40 June 11, 2003 QuoteWe currently use 182s at Skydive Aggieland, so I(we) move the student up almost to the firewall, turn them to put their feet on the step and dive out the door with them. Ever considered 'flying backwards'? You sit in 'jumpmasterposition' next to pilot or move there after the video climbs out (i.e. your back in the direction of the firewall). Not having 2 people turning in the door while attached at the hips makes life a lot easier. Nowadays I get on my knees behind the passenger, hook up, some 45 secs before 'door' I put them on my lap and tighten the lower straps, goggles on as the door opens, (move to the door BACKWARDS), my left foot on the step, passengers feet also on the step, bend passengers head towards my right shoulder, "ready set go ... HEELS ON MY BUM!" IMHO It reduces the workload for an exit with 50% - even more with a bigger tandemmaster/passenger combination....wished I had know that my first 300 tandemjumps from a C182 EDIT: there was 'left' where I ment to say 'right' - you all remember where John Cleese ended in the movie "Clockwork", right? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #41 June 11, 2003 In the course we've talked about that. The biggest problem is that our 182 is a Narrow Body, with manual flaps. So that means there's really not the room for the tandem rig up there AND the manual flaps (sort of like a big parking brake handle on the "transmission hump") is just asking to snag something. I know it can happen because I had a manual flap handle snap a PC on a sport rig once, thus pulling the PC out while I was climbing out of the plane. That was freaky on a sport rig, it would down right fucking scary on a tandem.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #42 June 11, 2003 Liemberg is recommending "the lesser of two evils." The fewer twists, turns and maneuvers you have to do the better. Since you are headed aft, you might as well start in the airplane facing in that direction. Turning two people in a small door has always been a hassle. The longer the student's legs, the more difficult the maneuver. The less you ask from a student in a stressful situation, the quicker and more graceful the exit. Frankly, I just tell students to put their feet on the step and let me do the rest, because most of the time, their "help" only slows me down. Over the last four years, we have done a few thousand "sitting exits" from Cessnas at Pitt Meadows and I we did many more thousand of them from Cessnas flying over Hemet, California during the years 1994 to 1999. I have only seen one drogue loose, and that was after repeatedly climbing in and out to practice exits, without proper gear checks. Granted - with a sitting exit - you cannot take fat students out of the front of a Cessna, and granted you have to tighten the side straps before closing the door, but over all, a sitting exit eliminates more problems than it creates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #43 June 11, 2003 I understand the benifits, but quite frankly, with a tandem rig on, you can't really sit there in a Narrow Body (1956 C-182). That extra 3" on each side of a wide body, along with the flaps being moved up from the floor infront of the fuel selector on wide bodies, makes a HUGE difference. After my experience with it on a sport rig, I just don't feel comfortable sitting there with a tandem rig on.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #44 June 12, 2003 My advice (2 jumps short of the rating): Know where your student's feet are on lnading -- if those feet should be up, but aren't, kick 'em in the calves until they pick them up, or be prepared to surf your student. I didn't, and ended up with a broken leg, external fixator, and 9 months laying on the couch with my leg on a pillow . Enjoy the Sigmas -- I would never jump any other tandem rig. And Good Luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #45 June 13, 2003 QuoteKnow where your student's feet are on lnading -- if those feet should be up, but aren't, kick 'em in the calves until they pick them up, or be prepared to surf your student. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but since some people will take you literally . . . To clarify "kick them in the calves:" just put the tops of you feet under their lower legs and push out, lifting their legs up. Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
