Cypress fire

[fudd 0]

On a normal skydive you loose altitude awareness for some reason (just unaware, dytter/alti failure, act of god, whatever) and WHAM, at 750' you're cypress fires and saves your life.

Would you quit skydinving???

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[gus 1]

No way! I make mistakes all the time (who doesn't?), having your cypres fire is a pretty big one and maybe I'd ground myself for a while but it would take more than that to stop me jumping.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Ron 7]

Yep....like I said before, If your Cypres fires and saves you, youre dead.

This includes me.

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it would take more than that to stop me jumping.

Like what? Sudden impact trama?

If you loose track of altitude....the one BIG mistake, maybe skydiving is not for you.

"Earth to big to go around, to thick to go through".

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[grega 0]

only earth can stop me from skydiving !

"George just lucky i guess!"

[lauril 0]

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only earth can stop me from skydiving !

You said it best!


Cypres fire, at least when it comes from loosing altitude awarness IS a big mistake, but I'd definitely jump after one...

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Gus, If you have a Cypres fire in the UK, chances are you won't have to ground yourself.....

Me, I'd probably have a long hard think about what I'm doing, then sell the gear.....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[ladyskydiver 0]

If I were to lose track of altitude and have a Cypres save my life, I would have to ground myself for awhile to figure out why I lost track of something so important. And, depending on why, I may or may not quit. If I can not keep my mind on the task at hand and stay altitude aware then I shouldn't be in the air. Not only could I hurt myself, but I could hurt others. I could live with injuring myself - my stupidity, my injury. I couldn't live with the knowledge that I injured or killed someone else.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[falxori 0]

tough question that i hope will never be answered.

i haven't had any serious mal yet (and i list "not noticing the ground coming straight at you", as a serious mal...), and i honestly can't say how it will effect me and me skydiving.

i want to believe i'll go back up after i calm down.
but post traumatic reactions are not always predictable.
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[skybytch 259]

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Yep....like I said before, If your Cypres fires and saves you, youre dead.

This includes me.

Me too.

I'd only keep jumping if I "wasn't there" (i.e. knocked out) when it fired, or if it misfired (in which case I'd begin to reconsider having one on my rig).

[charliezulu 0]

I'm with FireCat - depends on how I lost that awareness. If it turns out that my mind just wasn't on the skydive, then I need to be in some other sport.

CZ

[PhreeZone 15]

I know of at least 1 former advanced class team that had a 4 way cypres fire on the same jump. Then there was the whole crew at Nationals a few years ago that had a lot of cypres/reserve rides on the big way that went low. It seems AFF JM's tend to have some too by following students too low.

I think most people would be surprized at just whos had cypres fires in their jumping history.

I'd look at the cause and repack and get back in the air once I determined the best way to prevent that from happening again. Ie don't jump at 2000 feet and take a 3 second delay on a snivley main, wear a non battery powered altimeter again, etc.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[pop 0]

I wouldnt quit. Sure, having your Cypres fire means you made a major mistake, but people learn from mistakes.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Watcher 0]

(At a world cup/meet) The 4 way team (Danish National ) had been circleing at 10,500 for 45 minutes waiting to jump, they had new L&B Dytters, the Dytters rezero'd after 40 minutes (at 10,500), the whole team kept going till they all fired, camera pulled at assigned altitude, Team got a Zero for the round unfortuantly. without that zero they were very much in contention (they had a good round on that one). They all survived and no one was injured and they kept jumping, of course taking the lesson with them that they need to be aware if you are at one certain altitude for an extended period of time, then your audible might reset. And Yes I know the arguments about having a visual altimeter and ground awareness, and I certainly take a look at the ground as I am getting lower, but at world class speeds there is just so much on the line and you go so fast, there is no time to look at a wrist mount (most do not wear wrist mounts gets in the way) so it comes down to trust.

Jonathan

[billvon 2,464]

>but at world class speeds there is just so much on the line and you
> go so fast, there is no time to look at a wrist mount

If you do not have time to be aware of your altitude you do not have time to skydive, no matter how good/important/competitive you are.

[Ron 7]

So it would have been OK for 4way people to die if they are really cranking a jump????

Bad logic.

The largest single factor in skydiving is not bouncing.

How many pts, or how cool you look is a FAR second.

Yes it happens, but if I was running the meet they would have been grounded/disqualified for a gross saftey violation.

There is no excuse for being saved if you are awake.
I am glad they are not dead, but they should really rethink the situation....and yes Jonathan I do 4way. (Frost 14.9) And I don't see that as an excuse.

Ron

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Watcher 0]

Yes I know who you are Ron, I talked with you a bit at Skyquest, laughed a bit about the stories regarding you, Charlie Mullins, and a Cessna.

I did not say I think its ok, I have a visually mounted altimeter on my rig, and I know when its about time to breakoff based on seeing peripheal vision of the earth. I think its pretty bad that it happened, and surprised they did not notice themselves that low. I was meerly stating (obviously poorly) that a visual altimeter in the middle of 4 way is not always feasible, but that does not excuse you from being able to use your eyes to gauge altitude (and doing it).

[Ron 7]

Interesting thing I have noticed.

People below 500 jumps seem to say that they would still jump.

Almost everyone above 500 jumps has said no, they would most likley quit.

I think that this *could* be because that most of the people with over 500 jumps have been jumping longer. (There is a gap in jump #'s from 470 to 900, but above 900 every person has said that they most likley would quit, below 500 not.)

I would go on to theorize that the people who have been in the sport longer....some before CYPRES was popular feel that it is a much more serious error to have one fire. The people who say they would continue to jump after a CYPRES fire most likely never knew jumping Pre-CYPRES.

This seems to support the theory that most "newer" jumpers don't mind relying on them, and see them as a backup like a reserve and not a big deal.

Most "older" jumpers see it as a second chance to a serious fu(kup, and realize that they should be dead. And take the approach that they are great tools, but the jumper is responsable for their saftey.

I started right when CYPRES became more popular (and right when Tommy bounced).

thoughts?

I still think they are great tools, but if you are saved by one....you should look into golf.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ladyskydiver 0]

Ron,

I have 50 jumps and voted "not sure."

I do not view the Cypres as something to rely on. I view it as an additional tool that may or may not work as planned/hoped for. And, I do consider it a serious malfunction of a person's brain if they lose altitude awareness.

I've jumped a rig without a Cypres, and I've jumped my rig which has a Cypres. As far as I am concerned, there is no difference - I have to be aware of my altitude. To think that the Cypres will save my butt is to be totally stupid. It may...it may not.

But, to quit would depend on why I lost my altitude awareness. It would be by the grace of God that I was alive and is something that I would need to seriously consider before making the decision to jump again or not.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[diverdriver 5]

I have two people (that I know of) that were saved by Cypres after jumping out of my aircraft. Another jumper was saved by a FXC 12000. In one case the female jumper just forgot to pull and was going in about 200 feet from the main hangar and crowd. I asked if they were going to ground her and they said that they would try to work with her. Say what? The next Cypres save was a female jumper who had a spinning main malfunction. She did not peel the velcro on her cutaway handle first before pulling it. She never gave up but ended up cutting away at about 500 feet AGL. She accelerated and the Cypres fired. She got about 3 to 4 cells open before hitting soft plowed farm field. The third jumper that was saved by her FXC 12000 had a pilot chute in tow induced by her JM on an IAD jump. After 6 seconds she did not perform her emergency procedures like trained but instead pulled on her main bridle. She eventually went for the handles just as the FXC fired at about 1,000 feet AGL.

I don't know if the first one is still jumping but the last two I know are still jumping. The one who had the spinning main mal and hard cutaway is someone that I consider to be fairly "air aware". She definitely learned something about her cutaway system and I certainly make a point to ask every newbie female jumper I meet if they know to peel first then pull the cutaway handle.

Chris

[Ron 7]

Point taken...

I did say most not all...., although I think everyone with over 900 said they would most likley quit.

But I have seen a few people refuse to jump with out one.
Hell, I PREFER to jump with one, but I will jump with out it. Some will not.

And I have seen at least one person have 2 fires, and not think it was bad....The reason they gave me was..."I bought the thing in case that did happen". That bothered me. She relyed on it.

I have seen 3 others have fires and say close to the same thing....All of these were just simple "Lost track of altitude issues" Not even a bad response to a Mal, just forgot to pull....These people should look into Golf, or maybe bowling.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

I would like to add that I don't see a "student" save as big of a deal as an "up jumper". Still a big deal, but not as much.

We plan on students to screw up....They make life interesting....While it is a very bad thing, I think is MUCH worse for an "Up Jumper" to have a fire.

For the sake of argument lets say having a license, and getting saved.

I also don't count low reserve or main pulls/two outs....While they are bad, the jumpers was making an effort to save themselves, and in most cases would have done it, but the box did it at the same time.

I am talking about the didn't stop the skydive folks...The jumper under the spinning main is a good example. She is lucky to be alive.

And again...I never said that they SHOULD quit....just really think about it since they should have been dead.
I would have some problems if I owned the DZ letting them jump there again.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[diverdriver 5]

Agreed.

[falxori 0]

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At a world cup/meet) The 4 way team (Danish National ) had been circleing at 10,500 for 45 minutes waiting to jump, they had new L&B Dytters, the Dytters rezero'd after 40 minutes

I remember hearing this story from my rigger (if i remember correctly, he'd repacked their reserves after it happened.)
it kept me wondering for awhile...
noone is safe, must stay sharp always.

i have a cypress, if it fired , i did something very wrong.
if i'd done something very wrong, i'm happy that its there to fire.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[skycat 0]

Actually I voted that I would quit if it ever happened, the only time it might be maybe is if it was due to me being knocked out in freefall.

For me personally, if I hear my audible and haven't already turned to track or was in the process of it I mentally kick myself, because for me that is a form of loosing altitude awareness. If I start having a string of jumps (even just 2, depending on other factors) where that happens I quit for the day, because that is the 1st step for me to making bigger mistakes with altitude awareness.

Fly it like you stole it!

[CrazyIvan 0]

I would never quit (unless I hit the ground ), but if it happens (Cypress fires), I'll just recall the jump and see WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO WRONG!!!

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Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.