hookitt 0 #26 January 31, 2003 Quote >VERY VERY seldom do I complain if it opens funky. I tell them if it opens funky. If I don't tell them, how will they know? It would be a shame to have one packer go out of business because all her pack jobs open funky due to some 'tip' she got from a rigger, without her knowing why no one used her any more. Ok.. opened my self up on that one. The people I have pack for me, pack very well. I have watched them pack many times. I'm confident in their work. However every single part of a parchute moves. Very seldom do I get Janky openings when I pack for my self. But for some reason, even after watching the packer, put together what appears to be a nice orderly pack job, it opens off heading, weird hard, what ever. Basically it's fine. I see no reason to bring it up when for one, they are doing me a favor. Two, it's unusual for their packjobs to open funky. I do bring it up if the only thing that's consistant is f***ed up openings. If they are need assistance, I give it. If I see someone struggling, I help them so they don't have to struggle as much. I suppose that sounded like I turn a blinds eye but that's not the case. A very large portion of my time at the DZ is spent teaching and helping others.This includes Proper gear checks, packing techniques, lots of miscellaneous stuff, and the fun part... DUN dun DUUUUNNNNNNNnn...Skydiving. Packers work hard. Harder than most people would ever dream of. If they pack poorly, I feel it's important to assure that doesn't happen much longer. A janky opening now and then? I'm ok with that. Perhaps one day I'll learn to take my time posting Edit: Packers deserve much appreciation. Quite often there is none. I'm not a regular customer, so if a paid packer tosses my parachute into the mix so I can make a load AND go eat lunch or debrief or just go drink a beer at the end of the day, by all means.. They deserve something extra although none expect it. CheersMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #27 January 31, 2003 QuoteTip packers? Why? Do you tip the person at McDonalds? Do you tip the person that shovels your driveway? Do you tip your pilot, who is way more deserving of tips then anyone else since they have a lot to lose? If it takes tips to get a good pack job then ignore that packer, if tipping gets your rig packed faster then ignore them since they are treating other people as not as important, if tipping is required then just have the price reflect that. Tipping is never required..but packers are not like the people at McDonalds-the service they provide is optional. Like tipping a waiter at a fine restuarant, you are showing your apprecation for a job well done. Certain people pay me more than others-that doesn't mean they get a better pack job-but I do pay more attention to their rig. Just because I bump someone to the top of the line doesn't mean others are less important, it just means I have a developed relationship with that customer. Even my best customer gets dropped in a heartbeat for staff, whether they tip or not. Packing is a service job-just like a waitor or tattoo artist. Tipping is not required, just appreciated. (especially if you are one of those people that don't stow brakes or sliders...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #28 January 31, 2003 QuoteEven my best customer gets dropped in a heartbeat for staff, whether they tip or not. Yup, I've had to do that more then once. Especially for tandems coming in for packs. No matter who they are, I work for the DZ as a staff packer, thus staff packjobs, tandems and student packs come first.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kryos 0 #29 January 31, 2003 Sorry to say, that be you, my friend. When you choose to pay a packer (as I usually did), you don't absolve yourself of the responsibility for the pack job. If something goes wrong, as it obviously did in your case, it's the same as if you packed the mal. I feel your pain, believe me. Same thing happened to me, and I never got the main back either. I wound up having to spend about $1,300 to replace everything ... at this was at a time when I really didn't have an extra $1,300 to spare. In my case, though, I packed my own mal ... and a good one at that. All the lines were twisted up ... nice big tension knot. There was no way I could land it, so I had to chop. My bad luck was that it happened late on a Sunday afternoon. Most of the jumpers had already left the dz. Thus, there were only a handful left who could take off to go look for the main. Sadly, they were too late. Someone traveling along the roadway obviously saw it coming down and snagged it. No other explanation is possible. A 220 square foot pink and aqua canopy simply doesn't vanish into thin air. Blue skies, and sorry about your loss ... --rita Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #30 January 31, 2003 nope it never happened to me. a new jumper was asking. I pack for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #31 January 31, 2003 Quote Why has noone filed a lawsuit against a packer yet ? Or has this been done allready ( sorry had to ask) Are there any written rules concerning paid packers. I wouldn´t know since everyone packs their own here. (only sometimes we throw a beer to a friend if were too tired) This brings up another point. What about the rigger that was directly supervising the packers. Since according to the FARs they are taking responsibility for that pack job?Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigben 0 #32 January 31, 2003 QuoteOn the other hand, this brings up an interesting business opportunity. Would you pay extra for canopy insurance? A friend of mine had household insurance that covered his rig "while not in use". He had a mal, chopped and lost his main. He claimed that he saw it land, but it was gone when he went to pick it up; I think it actually got washed out to sea. Since he wasn't using it at the time the insurance payed up. -Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #33 January 31, 2003 QuoteA friend of mine had household insurance that covered his rig "while not in use". He had a mal, chopped and lost his main. He claimed that he saw it land, but it was gone when he went to pick it up; I think it actually got washed out to sea. Since he wasn't using it at the time the insurance payed up. This sounds like insurance fraud to me. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #34 January 31, 2003 >This sounds like insurance fraud to me. If the canopy was stolen/lost while lying on the ground, it was a perfectly valid use of the insurance. If it was destroyed in mid-air, of course, it would not be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #35 February 1, 2003 Quote>This sounds like insurance fraud to me. If the canopy was stolen/lost while lying on the ground, it was a perfectly valid use of the insurance. If it was destroyed in mid-air, of course, it would not be. We're not talking about a rig stolen from a campsite or some such. A skydive was made and the rig was clearly being used. I consider cutting away a canopy during a skydive an intentional loss while in use. If it had not been in use, the loss described could not have occured. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #36 February 1, 2003 I've seen parachutes stolen when cut away from the northern residential area's by DeLand...so your saying is some little bastard steals your main....and if you have insurance against theft you can't get your money?..... why bother having insurance then... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #37 February 1, 2003 Quote I've seen parachutes stolen when cut away from the northern residential area's by DeLand...so your saying is some little bastard steals your main....and if you have insurance against theft you can't get your money?..... why bother having insurance then... The main wasn't stolen, it was washed out to sea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #38 February 1, 2003 I know my homeowner's insurance pays for theft, accidental breakage, and accidental loss under a huge number of circumstances. I've used it before and they were entirely reasonable. I don't think they'd fight very hard to avoid paying under these circumstances whether it was stolen, washed out to sea, or simply misplaced. It's a small payout to an insurance company. As long as it's a legitimate story and checks out, and you're a regular customer with a good track record, I expect my Ins. company would step right up to the plate. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #39 February 1, 2003 QuoteIt's a small payout to an insurance company. As long as it's a legitimate story and checks out, and you're a regular customer with a good track record, I expect my Ins. company would step right up to the plate. I agree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loughery 0 #40 February 2, 2003 Like they say if you are not prepared to lose everything you take on the jump. Dont jump. TOTTOT www.SkydiveMoncton.com To my wife: 'If you ask me to stop skydiving, you are asking me to move out!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #41 February 4, 2003 What ever happened to FOLLOWING YOUR MAIN DOWN!!! If you can safely do so....that is I can never understand why people chop a main and just head back to the landing area as if nothing happened....that is a pile of $$$ you're letting bake out there in the sun while you try to figure where it is and how to get it.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #42 February 4, 2003 Quote What ever happened to FOLLOWING YOUR MAIN DOWN!!! If you can safely do so....that is Well, on my home DZ for example, if the main doesn't land on the airfield, it's either in a lake or in a tree. The best you can do is to see which bit of the forest the stuff lands, and then head for the airfield. We had a tandem cut-away last summer, and we had a pretty good idea on where to find the main and the freebag. We took a car, drove to the woods and parked the car on the side of a road. We found the main pretty quickly, but searched for the freebag for 45 minutes without success. We were getting back to the car, when the freebag was found. It was hanging in the tree next to our parked car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #43 February 4, 2003 Like I said...If you can do so safely... I've jumped at a lot of DZ's aroud the U.S. and it seems to be a 'cultural' thing... Some places it's "chop-drop-head for home" and other places, usually smaller clubs, the person cutting away follows their main down...and invariably someone else on the load follows that person down to be sure they're okay. Years ago at Perris I saw a guy on my load fly his reserve over and snatch the falling main out of the sky! Not a good idea...an unplanned downplane could result, but impressive none the less ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettpobastad 0 #44 March 1, 2003 How do you define a packer induced malfunction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #45 March 1, 2003 Quote How do you define a packer induced malfunction? I would define it as a malfunction that was a direct result of an improper pack job. The most common packing-induced malfunctions would probably be line-overs (sloppy packing), bag-locks (sloppy stows), PC-in-tow (should have cocked that PC), and hard-pulls (stuffing a bulging, dead-rat of a PC in the pouch). I would say that Line twists and tension knots get a bit sketchier to define blame... They can both be caused by bad packing technique, but usually fall under the "shit happens" category. Examples we all know: Line twists caused by deploying while unstable, deploying with a dropped shoulder, radically non-symmetrical pack job, and not leaving enough slack between the risers and the last stow on the bag (This is what got me on my last cutaway). Just my $0.02 of an opinion, but I usually pack for myself anyway.KrisSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #46 March 1, 2003 A line-over can be caused by a radically unstable jumper. If the rig was packed by yourself, and you caused the malfunction, then it was a packer-induced malfunction, albiet a self-induced packer malfunction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #47 March 1, 2003 Quote A line-over can be caused by a radically unstable jumper. Personally, I think that's pushing it a bit, but given the realm of probability, anything is possible. Quote If the rig was packed by yourself, and you caused the malfunction, then it was a packer-induced malfunction, albiet a self-induced packer malfunction. [Homer Voice] D'oh! [/Homer Voice] You got me there. I need to read and not skim before I post.KrisSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slink2 0 #48 March 1, 2003 Their liability ends once I hand them the $10. Not $5.00 my life is worth $10.00. But then there is the whole rigger supervising thing...does this ever happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #49 March 1, 2003 QuoteBut then there is the whole rigger supervising thing...does this ever happen? You know I asked about that either in this thread and no one said a thing about it. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why has noone filed a lawsuit against a packer yet ? Or has this been done allready ( sorry had to ask) Are there any written rules concerning paid packers. I wouldn´t know since everyone packs their own here. (only sometimes we throw a beer to a friend if were too tired) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This brings up another point. What about the rigger that was directly supervising the packers. Since according to the FARs they are taking responsibility for that pack job? Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #50 March 1, 2003 Quote A line-over can be caused by a radically unstable jumper. That's actually a joke that myself and the other 2 packers at Aggieland have. jumper--"Dude, you packed a line over..." packer--"it was probably body position..." Although out of the last year there was one, only one cut away on a staff packer's pack job.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
