ChileRelleno 0 #76 March 28, 2003 DANGITBOY! ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #77 March 29, 2003 QuoteAs for your list of 3 things. Packjob, well, maybe, I am however a very good packer (who is a professional packer). Just out of curiosity, what constitutes a professional packer? How many jumps do you have? I personally think you should be a pretty experienced skydiver to be a packer. It is one thing to just pack parachutes, and another to know exactly what that parachute can do as it leaves the container. To know how it feels and the possibilities of the things that can happen regarding packing techniques and body position upon opening. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #78 March 29, 2003 I have just a bit under 400 jumps (D-25777) and a couple thousand packjobs. As definition, a professional anything is someone who does it for money. So, I've been packing for a while for money, have a couple thousand packjobs, I would think that would make me a professional packer. Why do you feel it necessary to try to discredit me? Do you think that my posting this thread is not going to help someone else learn from my mistakes? Would you rather have someone else just learn from it happening to them instead?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #79 March 29, 2003 By telling your story, and better yet having the balls to admit you may not have handled it the way you would next time...You may be responsible for saving somebody's life in the future...that's not bad! mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #80 March 29, 2003 QuoteJust out of curiosity, what constitutes a professional packer? How many jumps do you have? I personally think you should be a pretty experienced skydiver to be a packer. It is one thing to just pack parachutes, and another to know exactly what that parachute can do as it leaves the container. To know how it feels and the possibilities of the things that can happen regarding packing techniques and body position upon opening. I have met many good packers who have very low jump numbers and even a few who have never jumped. Mostly it depends on how good the training they get from a rigger is. I can't remember the kids name, but he is 12 or 13 years old, his father owns a DZ and he could out-pack almost any jumper I know measured in skill, speed and accuracy. I have also met many good packers who pack so they can afford to jump and thus may have 1000 pack jobs and only 100 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #81 March 29, 2003 AggieDave, I am not trying to discredit you by any means. I think it is admirable that you shared your screw up so that others could learn. I was just trying to figure out what could have been the problem if those three things had been done correctly. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #82 March 29, 2003 QuoteSome people have been trying to get me to pull lower than i do, but I felt that if i had a mal that I might not be able to make a decision quick enough at the lower altitude. I don't know what your pull altitude is, but I can say this: I was trained at a DZ with lots of "old-timers" who learned to jump back in they day of big docile canopies and low openings. I now jump at a lrage DZ where most people are jumping modern, "high-performance" canopies. People here tend to open higher, since their malfunctions are more likely to be fast and difficult. so it is not at all unusual for people to open at 4000' here. There is no shame in opening "high." I used to get grief from other jumpers about pulling as "high" as 3000 ft regularly, because it wasn't "cool." Now I open about 4000, because it's lonely still being in freefall when all my freinds are flying their mains! And that extra 100 feet will just give me a bigger margin for error. I have quick reflexes, but why risk it, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #83 March 30, 2003 Quote By telling your story, and better yet having the balls to admit you may not have handled it the way you would next time...You may be responsible for saving somebody's life in the future...that's not bad! mike I second the motion! Dave, you're not only a professional packer... But a professional skydiver as well. You made a potentially incredible error, have the state of mind and skill to prevent a disastrous outcome. Care enough about the sport and the people in it to cast your ego aside and provide the truthful facts in hopes of keeping someone else from doing what you did. My hats off to ya brother... You can drink from my canteen anytime! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #84 March 31, 2003 I have been following this thread off and on. I will add my input. I am the S&TA that watched Dave's incident. It was scary. I did not see it from deployment, but shortly after. The canopy appeared to be in one of those "let's just stay in this snivel instead of opening" things. Not being in the harness, I can't validate his exactly actions, but the canopy certainly did what he described. I was geared up to do a coached eval dive with a Coach Candidate so I did not get to talk with Dave immediately. Once I landed, we got together and he told me the story. My question was, "Did you learn anything?" His answer, "Don't go through decision altitude without a safe canopy." He had the right attitude. He knew he screwed up and he said something about having to use all of the little bit of canopy skill he has learned. Dave is not on the swoop tour, but for someone with less than a 1000 jumps, he as better than average canopy skills. Dave (like most of us) does have an ego. He put that aside for all to see him admit to screwing up a basic lesson (altitude awareness). The landing may be a bit glamorized, but everyone that looks at where he landed knows how lucky he is and how panicking would have changed the outcome. Anyway, hopefully everyone can just pay attention to the message and learn rather than trying to disect and criticize someone for wording. Oh, and anyone who has NEVER made a mistake, go ahead and criticize to the max. That way we can read their story next week. Okay, stepping off the soap box. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #85 March 31, 2003 Good post, and thanks for making it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #86 March 31, 2003 Ive been lurking here for a while too dave! thanks! fotr the info..... and thanks for landing safely My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #87 March 31, 2003 QuoteAnyway, hopefully everyone can just pay attention to the message and learn rather than trying to disect and criticize someone for wording. I never meant to criticize to harshly, but I can see where I came off that way. I will admit, the bottom line is that he did handle the situation well, did not panic, and learned a very important lesson in the process. Hey, Glamorizing keeps life interesting. I just feel there are 3 main reasons why a parachute malfunctions and I wanted to know why his chute did what it did. I still haven't heard the exact reason for the problem, just theories. If it were me in the situation, I would want to know without a doubt why my chute messed with me. I would not want a repeat of the situation to happen again. Luck only lasts for so long. I guess it is different strokes for diffrent folks. I'm glad though everything turned out well and things were learned. I will try not to stray from the point of DZ.com in the future. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #88 March 31, 2003 Ever read the warning on your parachute. Most of them are something like - A parachute may malfuction even when properly manufactered, packed, and operated. As Dave mentioned, body position could have been an issue. In fact I believe he told me he was still a bit in his track when he deployed. Todd--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #89 March 31, 2003 Thank you. I don't post often, but hope that it is helpful when I do. Take my advice, I'm not using it. --This was Todd (tspillers) not, me AggieDave, the computer at the DZ must still have my cookies... --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #90 March 31, 2003 Quote I don't post often. If you believe that maybe I can interest you in some nice beach front properties in Bangladesh (or better yet a nice quiet bedroom community in Baghdad). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #91 March 31, 2003 Quote Quote I don't post often. If you believe that maybe I can interest you in some nice beach front properties in Bangladesh (or better yet a nice quiet bedroom community in Baghdad). haha, I was thinking the same thing, until I realized that it's Todd logged in as Dave.. -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #92 March 31, 2003 Quote I just feel there are 3 main reasons why a parachute malfunctions and I wanted to know why his chute did what it did. I still haven't heard the exact reason for the problem, just theories. If it were me in the situation, I would want to know without a doubt why my chute messed with me. I would not want a repeat of the situation to happen again. Luck only lasts for so long. The only way to guarantee that your parachute won't malfunction is not to use it. I've posted this before, but i think it bears repeating: "You're taking a big ball of nylon fabric and a bunch of string, tossing it out into 120MPH worth of wind, and expect it to do the same thing every time? What are you smoking? You can be as meticulous and careful as you like while packing, and sometimes shit just happens." Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #93 March 31, 2003 QuoteEver read the warning on your parachute. Most of them are something like - A parachute may malfuction even when properly manufactered, packed, and operated. Good point, but doesn't the warning label also save the manufacturers from lawsuits? I totally agree that there is always a margin for error in a sport like skydiving no matter what!!! If he was still in a bit of a track on opening however, that does not flow with what the warning label says, "A parachute may malfuction even when properly manufactered, packed, and operated." It has to do with body position on opening and that could have been why his D bag felt awkward leaving his back. I have finally heard a solid reason for the whole problem. Knowing this would have helped a lot earlier in the thread. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #94 March 31, 2003 After jumping nearly 5000 times and having about 3 to 4 times that in pack jobs, it comes down to ... Shit happens... Dave you did what you did. If I'm ever out there I'll let you show me the landing spot and then I'll think back to when I had 400 jumps Good save dude!My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpgod 0 #95 April 16, 2003 i can relate dude....stuck toggles down to 1800' and was just about to chop and cleared it. sometimes i wonder if i would have hung onto that bad canopy....still gives me nightmares (and i mean after 2 years now). thanks for the post and the advice. glad we're still here to jump safe blue ones all!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stylin 1 #96 April 17, 2003 Whats the lesson here? KNOW YOUR ALTITUDE!!!!!! Got my mind made up about one thing, that is as long as Im skydiving, which may be a long time, Im pulling at 4000. A little too conservative? Not too conservative if you take into account that youre trading only 6 seconds or so of freefall time for what could amount to your life. So Ill go back up and take another if I need more freefall time. Like I said...glad you are not dead, and I bet this will not happen again. I was sitting at a bar this weekend in Phoenix, talking to a guy who used to be on the Marine Corps skydiving team. So when I left, he said "good luck", and I told him it was only a tandem, not worried about it. He says, in these exact words, "Every single skydive can take your life". It was the way he said it that really shook me up, still thinking about it. He had one cutaway that was really bad, said right when he opened up, he went into a violent spin, but knew where his cutaway was without having to look, pulled it, threw himself into a stable position, THEN pulled the reserve. Said he practiced locating the handles every time he went up, and thats the only reason why he's still alive. Ill save my betting for Las Vegas, where all I lose is money if I have to lose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stylin 1 #97 April 17, 2003 Quote Quote1) DO NOT burn through my decision altitude, even if I think I can fix it. My personal decision altitude is 1500 ft, I should have chopped it. From the USPA SIM Quotec. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude: (1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet. (2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet. Why is your decision altitude 300 ft lower than that recommended by the USPA? - Jim Those are the MINIMUM recommended opening altitudes by the USPA. Figure in your own "better safe then sorry" altitude, then add that in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #98 April 17, 2003 Hey WHUFFO, QuoteThose are the MINIMUM recommended opening altitudes by the USPA. Figure in your own "better safe then sorry" altitude, then add that in. Dude, those are the minimum recommended decision altitudes that the SIM says to cutaway by. They are not the minimum opening altitudes. Who would ever recommend a B-licenced jumper to open at 1,800 ft? John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #99 April 17, 2003 Quotetalking to a guy who used to be on the Marine Corps skydiving team. Ummm, sorry bro, no such thing. Atleast not on an official level.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #100 April 17, 2003 Hmmmm on a sidenote: (sorry for the hijack) Those are actually the minimum opening heights under the APF op regs. Experienced jumpers 1800ft. Students/A license 2200..... Rather od.. When would most people no longer cut away and switch into two out or canopy transfer mode?.. When is to low for you to cutaway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
