What not to do (how the Aggie almost died)

[AggieDave 6]

I almost bounced today, here's the story, hopefully you'll learn from it!

First jump of the day, I was up on a Skydive U jump, learning myself some RW. Good jump, fairly uneventful, learned a lot, at 4500 I tracked away and dumped at about 2800. Before the canopy was even fully deployed, I was fighting some linetwists. Only 3 of them and the canopy was flying straight, so I wasn't worried (that and I was still above 2000 feet). As the twists were coming undone, right before the last one gave, suddenly I was spinning on my back. I gave one last really hard kick and tug and I was out of the twist. My canopy surged forward, into a dive (from my back, mind you) and spinning. My lines were straight, I was just in a spinning dive. The slider had slid down over the toggles, so I was trying to correct with the rear-risers. That wasn't working, so I hit the slider up and ripped the toggles down into a DEEP flair. This stopped the dive and the turn. Although, now I was at 400 feet, over an industrial park, off the DZ with basically NO landing areas. So, I let up on the brakes a bit, and sat there sinking my canopy, looking for a spot, found one, sortof. Sank the canopy a little bit more to pass the first set of power lines, although I was too high to continue sinking the canopy (it would have stalled at a bit over 150ft over the ground). So I let up, letting my canopy surge forward with speed. I setup about 5' to the right of a building, had to swoop between two trees that were about 12' apart, carving around a large sign in the yard, but not able to go straight due to a parking lot with cars in it. So I continued to carve to the right, having to swoop under another set of powerlines. I had put my feet down quickly, trying to stop. I did stop (standing up, strangely enough), on the other side of a ditch I just went over, about 2 feet from a highway. The canopy fell forward into the highway, which I quickly pulled out, followed promply by collapsing in the grass. It took about an hour for me to stop shaking (as well as almost a pack of cigerettes).

Here's what I did wrong, what I should have done and my lessons learned and what you can learn from my near fatal fuck up.

1) DO NOT burn through my decision altitude, even if I think I can fix it. My personal decision altitude is 1500 ft, I should have chopped it.

2) Pray more often.

Now, here's an explaination as to why I setup my landing the way I did.

All in all, the landing area was about 20ft (at the very very most). It had a building, two sets of powerlines (both sets being a large set with multipul lines), two trees, a large sign, a parking lot with cars and a busy highway at the end (just past the second set of power lines). I had sat in brakes, looking for a place to land, sitting too long for me to continue to sit in brakes, but long enough that once I started to let up, I would gain a considerable amount of speed. Knowing this, I tried to use it to my advantage. I sank foward, to where I knew I wouldn't hit the first set of powerlines, let up, and picked my turning path between the trees, to the right of the building, to the left of the sign, then to the right of the parking lot, under the next set of powerlines, over a ditch, stopping before the busy highway. Since I knew I would have that speed, I tried to use it to my advantage to get around the obsticles. The only thing I was really worried about were the powerlines, I just got really lucky there.

It got dark before I got the chance, but sometime this week I'm going to go take pictures of the landing area and post them.

Ok, so once again, the moral of the story: DO NOT burn through your cut-away altitude. I got very very lucky today, even though I fucked up and it took every single ounce of skill I had to land safely where I was, after that.

(Although I did get another 4 really nice jumps after this, including a very pretty sunset CReW jump with a nice 3-stack. )

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 259]

Thanks for telling the story, Dave. I'm so glad you're here to do so.



Now don't ever do that again, dammit!voice>

[sinker 0]

thank God you're ok... good work on the landing.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Viking 0]

Damn dude!! Glad you suvived it!! Glad you didn't hit any funky wind and eat shit on that landing!!

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[Lolie 0]

Wow, glad you're here to share the story. Nice work keeping a clear head; even if you didn't follow the Plan B of your choice, at least you made some decisions (and had enough luck ) to get yourself to the ground safely.

And a stand-up landing? I give it a... 9.5!

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[DickMcMahon 0]

Dave:

You just scared the hell out of me!

Just curious ... do you use a dytter?

[hookitt 0]

Good one Dave, You unf***ed yourself very well. Sounds like the newly developed skill to land in rediculous tight landing areas will come in when the Fat Boy BASE begins

Good work, we all f*** up. Thanks for sharing this.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Before the canopy was even fully deployed, I was fighting some linetwists."

Poor body position Dave?

Glad to hear you had limited drama, and pulled yourself out of the shit.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>"Before the canopy was even fully deployed, I was fighting some linetwists."
>
>Poor body position Dave?

Ouch! That's gotta hurt...

AggieDave: Did you check your altitude after 2000ft? You don't mention that, but I got the impression that you knew you were burning through 1500ft? So you lost a 1000ft in a spinning dive without line-twists?

[Samurai136 0]

Good Job! Glad to hear you're not injured.

I'd love to see those photos of the landing area. I'm thinking the photos will illuminate how you got a canopy with a 20'+ span into "a landing area not more than 20' " and "between trees 12' apart"

I know how adrenaline and a pack of nicotine can distort things.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[stilettodude 0]

You pulled it off dude! Glad your here to tell us about it.
Philip

"HOW LOW CAN YOU GO?"

[wmw999 2,121]

Whew. I just about peed my pants just reading. Good job with dealing with what you had, rather than what you'd have liked to have.

next time you'll have more information.

Hugs from Houston
Wendy

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[CrazyIvan 0]

Hey Dave, I'm glad you are ok and survived to tell us your story...now...WHERE IN THE HELL IS MY BEER????

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Ron 7]

Glad you are not dead.

Whats the lesson here?

KNOW YOUR ALTITUDE!!!!!!

Quote

I tracked away and dumped at about 2800

Think about what would have happend if you had pulled at 2,500....How about 2 grand.....?????

With any canopy there comes a time to say goodbye to it.

I had a good friend die due to a stuck toggle and a wing suit. He managed to cut away at 50 feet.

If you have a canopy in a dive....think fast you are loosing A LOT of altitude.

Like I said...glad you are not dead, and I bet this will not happen again.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

1) DO NOT burn through my decision altitude, even if I think I can fix it. My personal decision altitude is 1500 ft, I should have chopped it.

From the USPA SIM

Quote

c. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude:


(1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet.

(2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet.

Why is your decision altitude 300 ft lower than that recommended by the USPA?
-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Michele 1]

Quote

Whew. I just about peed my pants just reading

Yeah, what she said....

Great learning experience, glad you're not dead. Shit, Dave. I mean, really. Shit! Geesh!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[bbarnhouse 0]

Aggie D...
Under your canopy may I suggest raising the limit on your hard deck? Too easy to go from hero to zero in less than 60 seconds. Personally, if it were spinning line twists...thats a high speed mal and I would have chopped it, especially under a highly loaded elliptical canopy.
Glad that you are ok.
B^2

[diverdriver 5]

Aggie,

1. Glad you're ok.

2. I don't know if I remember correctly but did you not tell people it was ok to get out of spinning line twists by just evening out the risers? I believe that I disagreed with that sentiment (if you didn't say that I apoligize. Don't want to put words in your mouth.) The reason is that you are now in a HIGH SPEED malfunction. The altitude you lose is tremendous for the seconds you spend trying to "fix" it. We told the story of "Hairy Bob" at SDC last summer. Told people to quite trying to get out of spinning line twists because you most likely do not have the time. We had Bruce cutaway at 200 feet and go in because his reserve was just getting line stretch.

People must recognize that line twists that spin must be cutaway because you are not guaranteed that you will be able to get out of them. You are better off cutting away and pulling your reserve at a higher altitude. You will have more time to pick a landing spot. You must survive the skydive. Analyze the line twists once you are on the ground and have time to think about it. Not while you are actually under canopy.

Aggie, thanks for sharing this experience. You probably have just saved someone else's life and they will remember this.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[jceman 1]

Yeah, Dave, what they said!

I agree with all that is it good we are reading this straight from the horse's mouth rather than an Incident Report. I also agree that you need to carefully review your personal guidelines -- not to say that they need to be changed, but after any such close call, they need to be reviewed with your newly acquired knowledge in mind. If changes need to be made, such as decision altitude or procedures you will follow; if you feel no changes need to be made, at the very least you can be confident that they are closely reasoned.

Now, with apologies to Lisa:

[Grandpa_Voice]Damnit, Dave, don't do that again![/Grandpa_Voice]

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Och c'mon folks...the thread is titled 'what not to do' so I'm guessing Aggs has learned from this.
Point is, can WE learn anything here.......

[Nac voice on]
Dave, don't do it the same way again,
next time, get video
[/Nac voice off]

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[jceman 1]

Quote

Och c'mon folks...the thread is titled 'what not to do' so I'm guessing Aggs has learned from this.
Point is, can WE learn anything here.......

[Nac voice on]
Dave, don't do it the same way again,
next time, get video
[/Nac voice off]

Not disputing you, old bean, just want to make sure that the lessons are mulled over by all, including the "victim".

All lessons learned are not realized at the moment, it is only upon reflection and review that the true lessons are realized and adjustments to thinking are made. Just because a plan worked does not mean that it cannot be improved upon.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[diverdriver 5]

Nac,

By no means am I bashing AggieDave. He's an upright guy. He did a good thing by posting his experience here. But we should take the time to disect the event so that all can see how personal decisions and view points effect what we do in the air. Not saying "I'm right , you're wrong". The "right" thing may not always be the right thing in every situation. Monday morning quarterbacking is such a cliche but that's how we learn and pass on knowledge. Something that others will take away with them. Dave may not see the things that others see from the outside. Newbies may not put the pieces together just by reading his first commentary on the event. Others more experienced may show some correlation between points. And yes, they can choose to ignore my points too. I hope they don't. I've seen the results.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Ron 7]

I have NO "hard deck".

I have cut away high(like as soon as I went...nope can't land it).....and WAY low (like 600 feet when my cut away handle was tucked under my harness on exit) And yes I have the video of that one. Was not able to land it....so it had to go. I had to take off my gloves to get the handle but it still was unsafe to land, so it went.

My last cut away was line twist under a Velocity 96. It was not spinning, and I was kicking out of the twists....But, I was at 1,200 feet, and over the industrial park at DeLand. My point here is, that I might have been able to kick out (Or it might have dove) But I didn't have a good place to land a 2 to 1 loaded Velocity. So I chopped it to land my PD113 in a TIGHT area. (Thanks PRO rating).

So he might not need to re-look at his altitudes...but REALLY look at why he went right past them. Cutting away at 600 feet (with a gun slinger reserve pull) is better than landing a "I'm gonna die" Mal.

So, Aggie WHY did you fly right past your 1500 foot hard deck?

Answer:

"I lost altitude awarness trying to fix a cannopy that looked like I could fix it."

"I was so wrapped up in fixing the canopy above me that I almost died."

"Man did I screw the pooch on that one."

This happens A LOT...People get put into a situation that they think they can fix....And they try to fix it way past the "hard deck".

I don't honestly have a "hard deck"...I look up and see something that I can either:
A) Land with out dying.
B) Try to fix for a few seconds.
C) get rid of.

"A" happens most of the time.
"C" happens a few times.

"B" is what kills you. I have a standard policy. As soon as line twist starts to dive....It's gone PERIOD.....There is no "I can fix it"...Get rid of it as soon as you are on your back watching the world spin by your feet.

I am willing to bet that this will be his new policy....

Question Aggie: How many cut aways do you have? Any? I have found that most people who try to fix mains have not yet had to pull the silver handle....So when shit hits the fan, they don't think anything other than FIX (or Deploy) MY MAIN!!!!!

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Jceman, and Chris, sorry, I guess I've had enough armchair quarterbacking from the other forum, y'know, the other drama that is going on......You guys both make good points, that we can all learn from. Didn't mean to dis ya, sorry if you took it that way.
Personally speaking...I don't screw around with mals anymore. So far its a 1:1 draw, mals wrestled 2, mals beaten 1 (brake line knot), there was a time when I might have wrestled one down, but I can't be arsed with it now and will chop before I can convert the price of a repack from dollars to sterling.
Nowadays, I'll look at it, put my hands on the handles, look at it again then its adios amigo....

On a similar note, I've previously raised the point of having higher pull altitudes because we are more prone to faster mals these days.....The conversation never really got going on that front though.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[AggieDave 6]

Alright, I'll try to respond to everyone in this one post, so I'll try to remember everything.

First of all, thank you everyone, for responding with your imput. After the responses, I am raising my hard deck (I didn't know the SIM recommendation for B-D guys, I knew the student and the A since that's what I'm usually dealing with, d'oh).

Chris--evening out the links for a diving line twists can work in some situations, that's what I had posted a while back. In other situations, its too far gone.

The other question, no, I haven't had a cut-away yet, so maybe I do have some stigma about trying to fight a canopy. All I know is that if I'm in a situation remotely like this again, its gone, my reserve will be out.

I knew where I was altitude wise when I was first kicking out of my line twists. At the end of those twists, when I whipped to my back, I was almost out (barely one twist left), so I just gave it one last really hard yank and kick, and I was out. I wasn't too worried about that. What got me and where I lost my altitude awareness was what happened after I was out of line twists. My canopy surged forward, into a dive, spinning. There were no line twists, it just did that. In coversation with a couple reall experienced canopy pilots at my DZ about this, their conclusion was that it was just the reaction from getting the canopy out of an "unnatural attitude of flight." In the nearly 3 revolutions I did, trying to pull the canopy up with the rear risers (before I hit the slider out of the way of the toggles and yanked them) I successfully burned straight through my decision altitude and a safe cut-away altitude, but at that point, I was then under a good canopy and one that I know I can fly decently (as opposed to my reserve which I have never jumped).

Oh, something else that has been learned from this: This week I'm calling up PD and gettting a demo of the reserve I have. I want to put atleast 5 jumps on it, to try to get the control range understood and how it responds understood. Honestly, I'm not real sure I could have landed my reserve where I landed my main, simply due to not knowing how it flies.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."