Antithesis 0 #26 April 30, 2003 I completely agree with Frodo. If I wanted to be at church on sunday I would be there instead of at my local dropzone. I would not welcome ministry at a boogie. I find it hard to believe that any solicitations could be kept to a tent. I would also find it difficult to believe that an organizer would invite you to a SKYDIVING boogie. I'm not sure if you understand that some people enjoy their time skydiving as "fun" time Away from Current events, Politics, RELIGION, even family. Best of luck to you in finding a way to satisfy your need to preach somewhere else though I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #27 April 30, 2003 Are you any releation to Fred?Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #28 April 30, 2003 I would attend, and have fellowship with others. I think it would not be such a "bad idea" at a drop zone or boogie. I'm sure the response(s) would be better than the responses here. Keep in touch with me via email about it. Gary Calhoun CSA#? (i forgot) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #29 April 30, 2003 QuoteI would attend, and have fellowship with others. I think it would not be such a "bad idea" at a drop zone or boogie. I'm sure the response(s) would be better than the responses here. Why on earth would you expect that ? This forum is as wide a representation of types as you're likely to see at any drop zone or boogie. I would imagine that the only people that would really be interested in this sort of thing are members of the CSA such as yourself. If that's the case, it's a complete waste of time to put up a tent to preach to the converted. You might as well just all hang together like all the other sub groups do. Pretty much every other grown up has already been presented with all the information anyway, and by the time that they're skydiving, has pretty much made up their mind about the whole thing. Now that I don't run a drop zone any more, I don't really care, because I wouldn't be availing myself of the service, but I can't think of a single drop zone that I jump at allowing it happen knowingly. Best of luck though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #30 April 30, 2003 QuoteWhy on earth would you expect that ? This forum is as wide a representation of types as you're likely to see at any drop zone or boogie. Only protected via the distance the internet provides. Face-to-face, people are usually not quite so vocal. Quote I would imagine that the only people that would really be interested in this sort of thing are members of the CSA such as yourself. If that's the case, it's a complete waste of time to put up a tent to preach to the converted. Unless, of course, that was the intent to begin with. Maybe a place where they can all go to have a quiet place to reflect will keep them out of the sight of less tolerant folks. Quote Pretty much every other grown up has already been presented with all the information anyway, and by the time that they're skydiving, has pretty much made up their mind about the whole thing. Perhaps, but then again, there are a lot of people that have a fairly narrow view of the universe and haven't really been exposed to much. Quote Now that I don't run a drop zone any more, I don't really care, because I wouldn't be availing myself of the service, but I can't think of a single drop zone that I jump at allowing it happen knowingly. I bet there are some in certain parts of the country that would not only allow it, but would welcome it as long as it was it wasn't bad for their business. I mean, have you checked out all the drop zones near Chicago lately? I can think of one in which the DZO has a set up that sounds sort of like this. Lastly, don't be too hard on these guys. As long as they're doing it in their own company and not bothering anyone else, what's the big deal?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #31 April 30, 2003 Somehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #32 April 30, 2003 Well, it was interesting to see the views. About what I expected I might add. I hope those who objected would stop by and say hi, but if not ... no problem. Its hard to convey what I desire to do in a few short sentences. Going around preaching is not it. Its been my experience that many seek me out at DZs because they hear I'm a pastor (most don't believe it -- could it be the tattoos or I was once a Green Beret?) they come to me to talk about issues. Yeah, we're skydiving and that is why we're at the DZ, but every now and then other questions come up -- I'm there for them. I wouldn't want anyone preaching to me so I don't do that to others. BTW no kin to Fred Phelps! Thanks God! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeat10500 9 #33 April 30, 2003 Quote Somehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Oh...I've been trying to lure them to the dark side! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #34 April 30, 2003 I think you should get in touch with Trevor Laing, he's a skydiver who's really into this sport, but he also has Laing Ministries. His ministry is music, he's a very good musician who puts out Christian music in an industrial metal style. He's very serious about his ministry. If you want his e-mail, PM me. (not gonna post it here for the spam bots)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #35 April 30, 2003 HEMP ... I'm a little slow on the uptake. LOL! Actually quite creative! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeat10500 9 #36 May 1, 2003 Steve SOOOO K DUDE...now I'm laughing. ...mike ----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Iflyme 0 #37 May 1, 2003 Quite frankly, I think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! While you have the right to do whatever you think is right, I support freedom from religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,123 #38 May 1, 2003 I think of the Christian Science reading rooms as the ideal model for prosletyzing. You know where they are, you know what they are. They have resources besides just Christian Science, and you're welcome to use them for that. To me, a tent on the DZ with a couple of chairs to sit on in the shade, maybe a table to do your logbook on, and some bibles or tracts on a table where you don't have to wade through them to get in would be good. Again, you know they're there, and if you're sitting in the shade, they're available for those who have to read something when they're sitting around. Water out front for everyone to drink is good too. It's a way of showing what Christianity is by example. That's the best way anyway. It's not intrusive, it provides service. You can have happy people there to help when they're not jumping, but for pete's sake, have them jumping too! Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #39 May 1, 2003 QuoteBTW no kin to Fred Phelps! Thanks God! I was wondering about this the entire string, but too tactful to ask directly! I'm glad that got cleared up. Fred's a dick, he protest's at the KState graduations cuz the pink tassles the music kids have to wear. gl buddy! s. smith manhappening kansas " Teacher made me go to Principal Skinner's Office when I was dirty."=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #40 May 1, 2003 I feel the need to step in here since I am responsible for pointing Steve to this forum for some research. Steve sent me an email about a week ago asking the same question he asked the forum. I was aware when I pointed him here that he would receive a wide spectrum of feedback by which to shoot his azimuth (go in a direction). It has been interesting to read through the threads and as Steve points out, "Was what was expected." What I found most interesting was the "perceptions" of previous experience versus Steve's sense of "presence." When Steve shows up at the DZ on his Harley, his "presence" has never influenced the climate of the drop zone. Folks still cuss, drink, chase and act just as they do at any drop zone. Steve may be a bit at fault for not communicating his full methodology at the beginning of the thread and I think most locked into the "tent" and groaned with apprehension of some bible-thumping preacher passing judgement for this lifestyle and calling them "sinner." This is not the case. Steve accepts skydivers for who they are, what they do, no matter what. When Steve mentions a "presence," he just means making it known for those who might want to talk, clear their head before a jump, etc. Offer a 3 minute service for those who would like to attend and if you don't, he'll join you to celebrate the sunset dive. He doesn't approach people, they have to approach him. He doesn't sell, he just listens. No judgement. Think about it; a Harley riding, Rock & Roll playing, tattooed, former Special Forces Medic, skydiving pastor. How cool is that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dreamsville 0 #41 May 1, 2003 "Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! " Yeah, picture that. We are trying to get the choir of a major Presbyterian cathedral in Chicago to jump this summer. At least two are interested. The current skydiving choir member might want to file her report on how this is coming if she sees this thread. I am glad to help also. |I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apoil 0 #42 May 1, 2003 QuoteI'm interested in starting a ministry to skydivers at boogies similar to what Tribe of Judah does at Biker Rallies. I know there is a Christian Skydivers Association, but I'm not looking for a club for Christian skydivers, rather I desire to have a minsitry of "presence" at Boogies. A real, non-judgmental, "where there if you ever need us" type of ministry. In other words a tent with free literature and free bibles, an ear to listen and maybe a short 2-30 minute service on Sundays. Anybody think this is a bad idea or a good idea? Blue ones ~ Steve As far as I'm concerned, you would not be welcome. The arrogance and centricity of christians never ceases to amaze me. There is no shortage of churches in the vicinity of most dropzones. Plenty of christian support is "there if we need you". Those who need it, know where to look for it. But to put yourself IN the boogie environment crosses the line as far as I'm concerned. Be honest, you are not there for the converted - you are seeking to reel in those you consider lost or in need of your help. Many of us have chosen this lifestyle in active rejection of what you are offering, and would find your presence unwelcome. Be christian if you want, but keep it to yourself, please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Raefordite 0 #43 May 1, 2003 QuoteThink about it; a Harley riding, Rock & Roll playing, tattooed, former Special Forces Medic, skydiving pastor. How cool is that? Let me guess, some think it is cool, a few more just don't want to know and then there are those that make sure you feel unwelcome. But I bet this skydiving pastor gets all the calls when a skydiver wants to get married in freefall! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apoil 0 #44 May 1, 2003 QuoteSomehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Steve, how would you feel if the Church of Satan set up an equivalent booth? A little threatened perhaps? Offended? Keep your religion to yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #45 May 1, 2003 I'm not a believer, but I'd be willing to visit your tent. I think most skydivers would be willing to listen. We may not all agree, but we're all skydivers and that says a lot.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #46 May 1, 2003 QUOTE << Quite frankly, I think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! >> Happens at my church all the time. No problem. Again, this would be a place for people to go if they want or avoid if they prefer that -- no chasing people down preaching at them. You just gotta see a similar ministry at biker rallies to know what I mean. Believe me, there is nothing that happens at \skydive boogies that doesn't happen at biker rallies. Everyuone is free to do what they chose -- Ain't this a great country! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #47 May 1, 2003 <> Threatened? You're kidding me right? I'm hardly the "threatened type". Offended? Son, I fought for that man's freedom -- however offensive it may be to some, to me ... free country! Ain't it grand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #48 May 1, 2003 QuoteI think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Then why do you want to setup shop at the dropzone? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #49 May 1, 2003 I apologize for not knowing how to "quote" someone -- Reread the post and you will see I was quoting someone who posted -- I'll figure this thing out one day! LOL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #50 May 1, 2003 My mistake on the quote ... 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quade 3 #30 April 30, 2003 QuoteWhy on earth would you expect that ? This forum is as wide a representation of types as you're likely to see at any drop zone or boogie. Only protected via the distance the internet provides. Face-to-face, people are usually not quite so vocal. Quote I would imagine that the only people that would really be interested in this sort of thing are members of the CSA such as yourself. If that's the case, it's a complete waste of time to put up a tent to preach to the converted. Unless, of course, that was the intent to begin with. Maybe a place where they can all go to have a quiet place to reflect will keep them out of the sight of less tolerant folks. Quote Pretty much every other grown up has already been presented with all the information anyway, and by the time that they're skydiving, has pretty much made up their mind about the whole thing. Perhaps, but then again, there are a lot of people that have a fairly narrow view of the universe and haven't really been exposed to much. Quote Now that I don't run a drop zone any more, I don't really care, because I wouldn't be availing myself of the service, but I can't think of a single drop zone that I jump at allowing it happen knowingly. I bet there are some in certain parts of the country that would not only allow it, but would welcome it as long as it was it wasn't bad for their business. I mean, have you checked out all the drop zones near Chicago lately? I can think of one in which the DZO has a set up that sounds sort of like this. Lastly, don't be too hard on these guys. As long as they're doing it in their own company and not bothering anyone else, what's the big deal?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #31 April 30, 2003 Somehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #32 April 30, 2003 Well, it was interesting to see the views. About what I expected I might add. I hope those who objected would stop by and say hi, but if not ... no problem. Its hard to convey what I desire to do in a few short sentences. Going around preaching is not it. Its been my experience that many seek me out at DZs because they hear I'm a pastor (most don't believe it -- could it be the tattoos or I was once a Green Beret?) they come to me to talk about issues. Yeah, we're skydiving and that is why we're at the DZ, but every now and then other questions come up -- I'm there for them. I wouldn't want anyone preaching to me so I don't do that to others. BTW no kin to Fred Phelps! Thanks God! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #33 April 30, 2003 Quote Somehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Oh...I've been trying to lure them to the dark side! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 April 30, 2003 I think you should get in touch with Trevor Laing, he's a skydiver who's really into this sport, but he also has Laing Ministries. His ministry is music, he's a very good musician who puts out Christian music in an industrial metal style. He's very serious about his ministry. If you want his e-mail, PM me. (not gonna post it here for the spam bots)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #35 April 30, 2003 HEMP ... I'm a little slow on the uptake. LOL! Actually quite creative! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #36 May 1, 2003 Steve SOOOO K DUDE...now I'm laughing. ...mike ----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #37 May 1, 2003 Quite frankly, I think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! While you have the right to do whatever you think is right, I support freedom from religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #38 May 1, 2003 I think of the Christian Science reading rooms as the ideal model for prosletyzing. You know where they are, you know what they are. They have resources besides just Christian Science, and you're welcome to use them for that. To me, a tent on the DZ with a couple of chairs to sit on in the shade, maybe a table to do your logbook on, and some bibles or tracts on a table where you don't have to wade through them to get in would be good. Again, you know they're there, and if you're sitting in the shade, they're available for those who have to read something when they're sitting around. Water out front for everyone to drink is good too. It's a way of showing what Christianity is by example. That's the best way anyway. It's not intrusive, it provides service. You can have happy people there to help when they're not jumping, but for pete's sake, have them jumping too! Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #39 May 1, 2003 QuoteBTW no kin to Fred Phelps! Thanks God! I was wondering about this the entire string, but too tactful to ask directly! I'm glad that got cleared up. Fred's a dick, he protest's at the KState graduations cuz the pink tassles the music kids have to wear. gl buddy! s. smith manhappening kansas " Teacher made me go to Principal Skinner's Office when I was dirty."=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #40 May 1, 2003 I feel the need to step in here since I am responsible for pointing Steve to this forum for some research. Steve sent me an email about a week ago asking the same question he asked the forum. I was aware when I pointed him here that he would receive a wide spectrum of feedback by which to shoot his azimuth (go in a direction). It has been interesting to read through the threads and as Steve points out, "Was what was expected." What I found most interesting was the "perceptions" of previous experience versus Steve's sense of "presence." When Steve shows up at the DZ on his Harley, his "presence" has never influenced the climate of the drop zone. Folks still cuss, drink, chase and act just as they do at any drop zone. Steve may be a bit at fault for not communicating his full methodology at the beginning of the thread and I think most locked into the "tent" and groaned with apprehension of some bible-thumping preacher passing judgement for this lifestyle and calling them "sinner." This is not the case. Steve accepts skydivers for who they are, what they do, no matter what. When Steve mentions a "presence," he just means making it known for those who might want to talk, clear their head before a jump, etc. Offer a 3 minute service for those who would like to attend and if you don't, he'll join you to celebrate the sunset dive. He doesn't approach people, they have to approach him. He doesn't sell, he just listens. No judgement. Think about it; a Harley riding, Rock & Roll playing, tattooed, former Special Forces Medic, skydiving pastor. How cool is that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #41 May 1, 2003 "Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! " Yeah, picture that. We are trying to get the choir of a major Presbyterian cathedral in Chicago to jump this summer. At least two are interested. The current skydiving choir member might want to file her report on how this is coming if she sees this thread. I am glad to help also. |I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #42 May 1, 2003 QuoteI'm interested in starting a ministry to skydivers at boogies similar to what Tribe of Judah does at Biker Rallies. I know there is a Christian Skydivers Association, but I'm not looking for a club for Christian skydivers, rather I desire to have a minsitry of "presence" at Boogies. A real, non-judgmental, "where there if you ever need us" type of ministry. In other words a tent with free literature and free bibles, an ear to listen and maybe a short 2-30 minute service on Sundays. Anybody think this is a bad idea or a good idea? Blue ones ~ Steve As far as I'm concerned, you would not be welcome. The arrogance and centricity of christians never ceases to amaze me. There is no shortage of churches in the vicinity of most dropzones. Plenty of christian support is "there if we need you". Those who need it, know where to look for it. But to put yourself IN the boogie environment crosses the line as far as I'm concerned. Be honest, you are not there for the converted - you are seeking to reel in those you consider lost or in need of your help. Many of us have chosen this lifestyle in active rejection of what you are offering, and would find your presence unwelcome. Be christian if you want, but keep it to yourself, please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raefordite 0 #43 May 1, 2003 QuoteThink about it; a Harley riding, Rock & Roll playing, tattooed, former Special Forces Medic, skydiving pastor. How cool is that? Let me guess, some think it is cool, a few more just don't want to know and then there are those that make sure you feel unwelcome. But I bet this skydiving pastor gets all the calls when a skydiver wants to get married in freefall! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #44 May 1, 2003 QuoteSomehow, I fail to see where I'd be in "competition" . I simply want a ministry there IF someone desires it. Although I pastor a church (theROCKchurch) in Tulsa, i'm not there to "preach" to anyone. Hope to see you at the boogies. Blue Skies Steve Steve, how would you feel if the Church of Satan set up an equivalent booth? A little threatened perhaps? Offended? Keep your religion to yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #45 May 1, 2003 I'm not a believer, but I'd be willing to visit your tent. I think most skydivers would be willing to listen. We may not all agree, but we're all skydivers and that says a lot.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #46 May 1, 2003 QUOTE << Quite frankly, I think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Picture this -- someone handing out skydiving literature at a church! >> Happens at my church all the time. No problem. Again, this would be a place for people to go if they want or avoid if they prefer that -- no chasing people down preaching at them. You just gotta see a similar ministry at biker rallies to know what I mean. Believe me, there is nothing that happens at \skydive boogies that doesn't happen at biker rallies. Everyuone is free to do what they chose -- Ain't this a great country! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #47 May 1, 2003 <> Threatened? You're kidding me right? I'm hardly the "threatened type". Offended? Son, I fought for that man's freedom -- however offensive it may be to some, to me ... free country! Ain't it grand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #48 May 1, 2003 QuoteI think religion belongs in a church, not at a dropzone ... handing out bibles at a boogie? Then why do you want to setup shop at the dropzone? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #49 May 1, 2003 I apologize for not knowing how to "quote" someone -- Reread the post and you will see I was quoting someone who posted -- I'll figure this thing out one day! LOL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #50 May 1, 2003 My mistake on the quote ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
